Arrangement of Business
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
The short answer is that I did not have any discussions with the Welsh Government, but I completely accept that when amendments come in late—and when government amendments come in late—it does affect more than just the Front Benches and the Members of this House. The people who brief Members of this House will be affected and the devolved Administrations will be affected—I absolutely accept that. As I said right at the beginning, I do not think having 342 government amendments at the last minute is a suitable way forward. I hope we will do our best not to do this again.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
My Lords, it is much appreciated that my noble friend has come to the Dispatch Box to make this apology, but it is not really his fault. The fault lies with Ministers in this Government not doing their job properly, and with parliamentary draftsmen producing such material. Again and again, we see framework Bills that are full of Henry VIII clauses, we find bills that are not thought through, and amendments being tabled at the last minute that have not even been discussed in the House of Commons. Frankly, it is not treating this House with the dignity it deserves and it is a very bad way to make law. Should we not find some method whereby Ministers in the other place can perhaps be educated on what this place does, how it operates and what it expects?
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
I believe there are attempts going on at the moment to do that. In this case, however, this was a House of Lords starter, so we cannot blame the other place.
Arrangement of Business
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
I am always open to suggestions. I do not say that I will not look at it, and I accept the point that in some cases an APPG might take place, but we are giving people plenty of warning on this so they are able to arrange the dates that suit them to combine with both Houses. It is perfectly possible to work around this. Sometimes it helps if we come back one week different to get business done and vice versa so that business can come from the Commons to us. We do not have to be the same, but I take the point. Having made those decisions, I think it is unlikely that they will change.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Chief Whip for giving us such advance notice. For years we have asked for that, and now we have got it, people are carping about it. He is to be congratulated.
Lord Dubs (Lab)
My Lords, I endorse what the noble Lord said and welcome the fact that we are looking some distance ahead, but there are other problems. There are Joint Committees. For example, I serve on the Joint Committee on Human Rights: we cannot sit if both Houses are not sitting simultaneously. That means we lose a whole committee date. We cannot be flexible about that. They are Joint Committees of both Houses. It does not make any sense.