Rail Dispute: Michael Ford QC

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Wednesday 29th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I do not think that two noble Lords can stand up at once. It is the Conservatives’ turn.

Arrangement of Business

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 26th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

They are Joint Committees of both Houses, and there is one week when both Houses will not be sitting together. Therefore, there are another 51 weeks when they can sit together, so among the many problems we face, I do not think that is an insuperable one.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

I ask the Chief Whip to acknowledge one other problem, which is that if the Commons are sitting and we are not, and something of significance occurs, requiring a Statement from the Government, we are not in a position to follow up that Statement in a timely way. That has happened in the past. Does he not think that is something to be considered?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

Of course the same applies the other way around, when we are sitting and the House of Commons is not. It is able to cope with that. It is true that in that one week it will not be able to, but as I said before, these are not insuperable problems. I said to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, that I will look at this, but I do not think it is very likely that the dates will change. I have said I will look at them. It may be possible, or it may not. I think it is unlikely, but I will look at it.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, before I call the Chief Whip to reply, is there any other Member in the Chamber who wishes to contribute to this debate? As there is not, I will call the Chief Whip to reply.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, I echo the previous speaker’s remarks on the staff who have helped us be here today. They have to do it; we do it for fun, and because, actually, we have a serious job in front of us. As I made clear in my opening remarks, we had to make a difficult decision about how best to use the time available to us.

I turn specifically to the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Adonis. You can tell he was the Secretary of State for Transport: you wait for weeks for an Adonis amendment and then two come along at once. But that is why I am particularly grateful that he has not moved the first—and ruined my joke, really.

But, seriously, he and a lot of other noble Lords have asked why the House was not recalled earlier than today. The deal was agreed late on Christmas Eve, and the Bill and its associated documents then had to be finalised, so today is the soonest the legislation could be considered. Also, bearing in mind that we are in the middle of a pandemic, we had to use hybrid proceedings—which involve speakers’ lists beforehand—otherwise we would have excluded many Peers who wanted to speak.

Perhaps I might say a quick word about the timing—about before and after. The reason that we have to finish today, in this sitting, is that the UK and the EU need to exchange notification of completion of procedures for provisional application early on Thursday 31 December. This exchange cannot be done until the Bill has received Royal Assent, as the passing of the legislation is a necessary procedure for provisional application. So we were very much stuck in a gap between being able to do it when the Bill and its associated documents were ready and having to do it at a very quick pace.

If we did as the noble Lord would like and had a provision for a substantive Committee stage, the time available for Second Reading would necessarily be reduced, and far fewer Back-Benchers would be able to take part. As I said, our proceedings today cannot be open-ended—Royal Assent must be notified to both Houses today.

We have heard that many noble Lords do not like the deal, and there have been criticisms of the negotiating process; I expect that we will hear more of that later on today. But I ask the House to consider what the alternative will be if the Bill does not complete its passage through the House today, which the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, referred to.

If I might say a word about precedent, I repeat what I said in my opening remarks that the way we have to consider the Bill today is not in keeping with our usual practices. The House rightly takes pride in its role as a revising Chamber, but today, time really is of the essence, and I consider these circumstances to be exceptional.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 13th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am happy to do that. The critical date is Friday 28 February, when a particular prisoner may come up for release. That means that the Parole Board has to do its business with its new-found powers, if passed by this House, on the Thursday. That means that Royal Assent has to be on the Wednesday, which means that, if there were any amendment on the Monday, there would be ping-pong on the Tuesday. That is why the timetable is so critical.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

Given that Monday 24 February is the first day back after a recess, has it been contemplated in the usual channels that it might be necessary to sit early that day? If so, when is that decision likely to be taken?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It was not felt necessary, although there was the possibility of doing that; I accept that point. The usual channels did not feel that it was necessary at that time. Of course, it makes it particularly difficult on the first day back from recess, when Members of this House have to travel, some of them many miles—including by rail and air travel—to get here.

Theatre Tickets: London

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 28th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The Government spend just under £0.5 billion a year on the arts, along with providing £860 million of tax relief for the creative industries, so we are doing a fairly large amount already. My figures are slightly different. UK Theatre has advised that in real terms—thus taking inflation into account—the overall average price being paid for a ticket has risen by 2% since 2013.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my interests as in the register. I wonder if the Minister agrees with me—I think he does, because he has virtually said it—that it is very misleading to look just at headline ticket prices. It is true that London theatres are expensive if you want the best seats in the stalls on a Saturday night, but it is possible to go to the theatre in London for quite modest sums. I also ask him to confirm that putting on a live performance of any kind, particularly at scale, is extremely expensive and very difficult to achieve, requiring a great variety of skills and talents. The more we support it, the more likely we are to find homes for all our young people who might be looking to those industries for jobs in the future.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with the noble Baroness. As I said, the Arts Council specifically is looking at trying to increase the diversity not only of audiences but of people who work in the industry. For example, we will imminently announce the Youth Performance Partnerships, a scheme for five regional hubs for performance and drama. It will reach up to 10,000 young people over the next three academic years.

Television Licences: Over 75s

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 21st January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I do not know whether the noble Lord was listening to the Answer I gave to my noble friend. I said that the BBC should not take advertising.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the question asked by my noble friend Lord Dubs, does the Minister agree, on reflection, that the way the agreement—which we all have to concede was an agreement—was arrived at was, to say the least, not very transparent and did not take very long to be sorted out? It appeared to come upon everybody very suddenly and without much discussion, which suggests a bit of a shotgun arrangement.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The BBC is not a small organisation; it is a very sophisticated organisation. Up until the 2015 settlement, there was an almost permanent state of crisis because the licence fee was funded on an annual basis, so as soon as it was agreed one year, negotiations started for the next year. Partly for the benefit of transparency, the Government agreed a five-year index-linked deal to give the BBC time to organise itself so that it knew what was coming and was able to deal with the concession that it knew would come in in 2020. As a result, the Government agreed to phase in the support from DWP, which comes to an end in 2020. I think it was a reasonable deal that was agreed by both sides.

Television Licences: Over 75s

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Tuesday 27th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am not sure that that would be helpful—for a number of reasons but mainly because it is very important that the BBC’s director-general, who is the editor-in-chief of the BBC, stays clear of politics as much as he can.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not think I am alone in struggling to understand exactly what the Minister is telling us. Can he confirm that, when the settlement with the BBC was made, it was made clear to it by the Government that it would receive the five-year funding uplift on condition that it continued to maintain the free licence for over-75s? If that is the case, effectively the BBC’s licence fee income was cut. Can he confirm that that is the case? If it is not, presumably the BBC has the autonomy to do as it pleases and determine the outcome of the licence for the over-75s.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Baroness is quite right: the BBC has the autonomy to do as it pleases. Responsibility in this area was handed over to it in the Digital Economy Act with Parliament’s agreement. So far as the first part of her question is concerned, it is true that that was agreed in the settlement, and that is why the director-general of the BBC said:

“The government’s decision here to put the cost of the over-75s on us has been more than matched by the deal coming back for the BBC”.

Personal Data

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Tuesday 17th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My noble friend makes a good point. I have not read the report yet, of course—it has been out only a day—but I know that it makes the point that data is essential if we are to ensure adequate competition. Data itself is of the greatest use and we have world-beating companies able to take advantage of it. We have to balance the protection of individuals’ data with the use that can be made of it. That is one reason why we are setting up the centre for data ethics and innovation—to look at exactly those points.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall build on the noble Viscount’s question. Does the Minister agree that one of the most difficult things for most people who are trying to understand how their data might be used—even perfectly legitimately—is that terms and conditions and other kinds of regulation are extremely opaque? What more do the Government intend to do to encourage companies who require us to give them our data to do so in a way which we can understand?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

One of the requirements of the GDPR, which will come into force on 25 May, is that you have to give informed consent. That means, for example, that there cannot be a pre-ticked box; you have to make an active and sensible decision on whether you give your consent. Companies are required to make it understandable and cannot just put a consent box at the bottom of page 25. Secondly, the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, made age-appropriate design a feature, which I am sure will be developed, so when people produce apps and other things they have to take account of the age of the people who are likely to use them.

Data Protection and Privacy

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

Further to the previous two questions about young people, does the Minister accept that many children are being given access to mobile devices well before their 13th birthday, which is the point at which most websites and providers are supposed to limit the availability of certain kinds of content? While there is a certain amount that legislation can do about this, it is really an issue of public information, particularly as many of these young people are being enabled by their own parents, who need to understand the dangers. What are the Government doing to further the public education that would help that?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The new general data protection regulation specifies that children are a special case and have to be protected more than adults. I completely agree with the noble Baroness that education is important, and that is education for parents and not just for young people. Across all age groups, a lot of people have things to learn about the dangers of the internet. One thing that the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation will do is show that it is not just Government who are involved in this but the industry, education, regulators and charities. All sectors in society have to come together to make sure that this tremendous opportunity is used safely by everyone.

Youth Orchestras

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 7th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree with my noble friend.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

I am sure the Minister is aware that youth orchestras in this country, and indeed elsewhere, perform to an extremely high standard, and that the young people who participate put in hours and hours of work although not all—fewer than half of them—actually anticipate having a career as a professional musician. What we need in order to keep those standards up is a good supply of young people who have the skills to take part. What proportion of children and young people in the maintained sector have affordable access to music tuition for long enough to bed in the skills that they need to perform to that standard?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I cannot give exactly the proportions that the noble Baroness has asked for. I can say that we have music education hubs, which were established after the Henley review into music education in 2011. There are 120 music education hubs in place, and they are funded by the Department for Education and overseen by Arts Council England. They create joined-up, high-quality music opportunities for all children and young people in and out of school, and the Government spend £75 million a year on this.

Channel 4

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Wednesday 29th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I agree that public service broadcasting has benefited this country. When we see that Channel 4’s remit states that it is required to produce:

“High-quality and distinctive programming … innovation, experimentation and creativity”,


and provide,

“alternative views and new perspectives”.

in order to:

“Appeal to the tastes and interests of a culturally diverse society”,


we can see why that is the case.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, taking the Minister back to the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Bonham-Carter, does he not take the point that Channel 4’s headquarters is a publishing house—it does the commissioning, not the producing—and that to move that particular unit out of town would be very expensive and have no particular benefit to the region to which it went? The important thing, if there is gain to be made, is to concentrate on the production facilities being spread more evenly around the country and programmes being produced there.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I absolutely take that point. In terms of expense, of course, having a big headquarters in London has a value all of its own—although that is not the point. That is why we are consulting on exactly these issues.

Brexit: Creative Industries

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 30th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The fact that the Prime Minister made this one of her 12 negotiating objectives shows that we absolutely take it seriously. All we are asking for is that, when we guarantee rights for EU citizens living in this county, EU countries guarantee rights for UK citizens living abroad.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, would the noble Lord accept that one of the important ways in which the creative industries grow in this country is through the education establishments that provide skills, through both specialist training and the schools system? At the moment, we face the risk that the very best people from the EU and beyond will no longer want to come and train in this country because it will be too expensive and, frankly, less good. That will not help us or the rest of the world. Perhaps the noble Lord would consider that when the Government come to make their decisions.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I think that is one of the things that will be considered by Sir Peter Bazalgette’s early sector review, which was announced in the industrial strategy Green Paper. We are going to have a specific focus on growing the talent pipeline.

Artists: Workspaces in Cities

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with the noble Baroness. As noble Lords will be aware, the Culture Secretary is on the economy and industrial strategy committee of the Cabinet. We would support more than just artists but craft bakers and local industries. We have been doing that in the north—for example, in Newcastle. The Great Place scheme, mentioned in the Culture White Paper and on which the Government spent £15 million, is helping in that regard and is all to do with creating vibrant communities with local arts and industries.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, it has become rather unfashionable to speak up for London, but it is worth remembering that London is a great capital city and is known worldwide for its cultural riches. Of course, it has many great institutions, which are a big draw for tourism and for our home market, but it also needs the small, innovative creative and cultural businesses referred to earlier. If they are starved out of London either by the cost of property or by strategy, be it from government, Arts Council England or anybody else, does the Minister agree that ultimately the cultural heritage of London will be diminished?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree. This is one of the world’s great cities. One reason for that and for so many people coming to visit it is its vibrant arts scene. All I was saying to the noble Earl was that we want to shift the balance a bit to increase funding outside London. It is part of the tourism strategy as well to show foreign visitors that there is more to this country than just London, albeit that London is a great city.

Trustees

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course, I agree: volunteering is very important to organisations, but it is also very rewarding to those who volunteer. Going back to a previous question, volunteering among young people is rising. Among 16 to 25 year-olds, monthly volunteering is at 32%, up from 23% in 2010. The National Citizen Service Bill, which is coming before a Committee of this House soon, shows that graduates of the NCS programme increasingly volunteer. That is a good point to bear in mind.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the good work of an organisation of which I am proud to be a trustee, the Roundhouse in north London? We have a long-standing and enlightened programme of bringing very young trustees on to the board every year. Is he also aware that the duties of trustees are increasingly onerous? It is pretty difficult even for people with a lot of experience to feel completely confident that they are on top of everything they are responsible for. It is very important, therefore, in bringing younger people, particularly people between the ages of 18 and 25, on to trustee boards, that they are properly trained and monitored and mentored while they are serving.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course, I agree that that is important. It is particularly useful that young trustees can sit alongside older and more experienced ones and learn. The Charity Commission gives as much guidance as it can and is always refining that guidance, both for existing and young trustees. I make the point that the Charity Commission is not there to second-guess trustees, but to use its powers to correct areas of significant abuse. For most trustees, the Charity Commission does not invoke its powers at all.

Brexit: Creative Industries

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Thursday 27th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree that it is very important that we look at other countries outside of the EU, but the EU will remain important to us and we can still continue to trade there. As far as the digital market is concerned, it is obviously easier in some ways to trade with other countries because distance does not matter so much. To that extent, I agree with my noble friend.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. Does the Minister agree that part of the reason why our creative industries—in particular, our performing arts—are so admired worldwide is that there is a very free interchange internationally of artists? Will he also agree that it is increasingly difficult for people who do not have the right to work here as EU citizens to get visas? It is a difficult, time-consuming and often demoralising process. Will he ask his colleagues in the Home Office please to note that, although we have not yet left the EU, the prospect of those rules applying to EU citizens in the future is liable to have a rather chilling effect on the international flow of talent?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

As I said before, I completely agree that cultural interchange is important and, by its very nature, it requires people to move around. I can assure the noble Baroness that that is well understood and it will be taken into account—among a host of many other factors—by the appropriate departments.

Banks: Unbanked and Underbanked

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 11th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The right reverend Prelate puts his finger on an important issue. The Government are improving access to credit, most notably by supporting the credit union sector. We have invested £38 million in that sector through the credit union expansion project. We have provided half a million pounds to help Armed Forces personnel access credit union services. We have raised the maximum interest rate that credit unions can charge, so that they can operate more sustainably, and we have provided £650,000 to fund the Archbishop of Canterbury’s Task Group on Affordable Credit and Savings.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister include among those who are deemed to be underbanked Members of your Lordships’ House and, no doubt, of the other place, other elected representatives and their families, who are now subject to a great deal of scrutiny and, to some extent, restricted banking services as a result of being designated what I believe is called politically exposed persons?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

There are good reasons why politicians come under scrutiny in their financial arrangements, but I do not know of any cases where Members of this House are unable to get a bank account, and they would certainly be eligible for a basic bank account.

Disabled Children: Sexual Exploitation

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 7th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is a very sensible suggestion. These symptoms take time to manifest themselves. However, we realise that people with special needs have needs which go on beyond the conventional age of adulthood. The relevant statutory guidance for young people with special educational needs and disabilities extends to the age of 25.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, will the noble Lord reflect on the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, and tell us what impact he thinks cuts to local authorities will have on the services that are necessary to link up the various agencies helping with child protection that he mentioned?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

As I said, this is one of the Government’s highest priorities. Across the piece, we are spending more money on social services and the police to deal with this problem, so I do not expect a difficult situation to arise. I could give a list of additional money that we have spent in this area; it is one of our highest priorities.

Vehicle Excise Duty: Carbon Dioxide Emissions

Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Monday 29th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, the Government do not explicitly promote diesel cars. The current tax system, introduced in 2001, covers the purchase of cars with low CO₂ emissions, regardless of whether they are petrol or diesel. I hope I can be a little more helpful on my noble friend’s question about testing. I am pleased to report that work has been going on for some time, at European and international level, to provide better testing. Although they will still be laboratory tests—so that they can be replicated around the world—a more accurate database will be included, which will more accurately simulate actual driving conditions.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, will the noble Lord reconsider the answer he gave on whether the Government promote the use of diesel cars? I drive a diesel car, which I am rather ashamed to admit now that I know about the particulates that are emitted by it. However, that diesel car pays no road tax and, currently, no congestion charge. That may not be active promotion but it is certainly implicit promotion.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I was referring to vehicle excise duty which, under the system introduced in 2001, simply addresses the amount of carbon produced. It does not promote one form of car over another: it just incentivises less carbon.