Middle East: Jihadism

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Thursday 19th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, for securing this timely and important debate. It is my pleasure to follow such distinguished and learned noble Lords. I put down my name in this debate to seek some knowledge. I am neither an Arab nor indigenous English, and jihadism for me is difficult to understand, as “jihad” is in Arabic and “Islamism” is in English. What does it really mean? As I read it in the Koran, jihad means “struggle for justice”, and it has two main categories. First, there is the inner struggle against evil, bad habits and temptations, and to strive for good deeds. The struggle for justice means a jihad against poverty, illiteracy, sexual violence—and, yes, there is a concept of a just war, where people are suffering from brutal regimes. Some scholars say that it is a duty to rescue people from that situation. I am sure that this does not mean individuals from Croydon or Luton who could go and declare jihad.

Sadly, words like jihadism and Islamism are used to describe despicable violent extremists and terrorists who proclaim to be Muslims. Let us have a look at two examples. ISIS, of which we know little, although it is much talked about, is led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi but is made up of members of the Baathist party, former Saddam Hussein soldiers, militant Sunni fighters and Sunni youth, who have suffered from poverty and alienation, and terrorists. None of them has the same causes or beliefs, but they have two main enemies—the Maliki regime and the Assad regime.

Then we have Boko Haram, a terrorist organisation that commits the most heinous crimes. The word Boko means western culture and Haram means forbidden—so it means rejection of western culture. Then there are the terrorists in Pakistan, Tehreek-e-Taliban, which attacked the Karachi airport; all those fighters were from Uzbekistan. They are no representatives of Islam or Muslims, just as the Lords Resistance Army is not representative of Christians, nor are the RSS or VHP representatives of the great Hindu religion, nor is the Buddhist 969 movement in Burma or the activities of Buddhist monk Gnanasara in Sri Lanka, whose organisation Bodu Bala Sena, or BBS, has allegedly killed seven Muslims, including a child with a sword, in the past two days.

Professor Hossein Askari of George Washington University conducted a research into 208 nations and states. He said that Muslim countries used religion as an instrument of state control. He said:

“We must emphasize that many countries that profess Islam and are called Islamic are unjust, corrupt, and underdeveloped and are in fact not ‘Islamic’ by any stretch of the imagination”.

He went on to say:

“Looking at an index of Economic Islamicity, or how closely the policies and achievements of countries reflect Islamic economic teachings—Ireland, Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Singapore, Finland, Norway, and Belgium round up the first 10”.

The nearest Muslim country is represented at 33, Malaysia, with Kuwait at 48. He added:

“If a country, society, or community displays characteristics such as unelected, corrupt, oppressive, and unjust rulers, inequality before the law, unequal opportunities for human development, absence of freedom of choice (including that of religion), opulence alongside poverty, force, and aggression as the instruments of conflict resolution as opposed to dialogue and reconciliation, and, above all, the prevalence of injustice of any kind, it is prima facie evidence that it is not an Islamic community”.

I hope that we have learnt that we cannot impose our form of democracy and expect other cultures and tribes to follow it, as was experienced by Mr Bush and Mr Blair in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are just experiencing the fallout in Libya after Colonel Gaddafi’s downfall.

The French rejected the legitimate elections won by the Islamic FIS Party in Algeria in 1991, the Americans refused to accept Hamas in Palestine and a large part of the world rejected the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. My point is that the international community withheld recognition of legitimate elections even while it accepted Sisi in Egypt, as well as sheikhdoms and kingdoms in the Middle East, as legitimate Governments. These are political struggles that require political solutions and invasions or bombings do not result in long-term solutions.

I was in Iraq last year and met many leaders. I also met the Speaker of the Iraqi Assembly, who told me about the isolation of the Sunni community, how Maliki had ignored the Sunnis in the north, and how he thought it was the Shias who were siphoning off all the wealth and had all the power. In most Arab countries, including Iraq, there is rough justice. If you look at some of their judicial systems, you find that confession-based evidence, forced through torture, is a norm.

Finally, at the risk of losing friends, I fear that unless we engage Saudi Arabia and Iran in all these states from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Bahrain and Yemen to Lebanon, we may, unfortunately, see an even longer period of sectarian violence than Europe experienced during the 30-year war in the 17th century.

We should not feel threatened by any economic or trade organisation between Muslim states because in my view, if Europe can be at peace due to the creation of a common market, there is a huge potential for the Muslim world to create peace. There is potential for $4 trillion a year business between it and the rest of the world, and peace among 1.5 billion people, as well as the rest of the world.

Islam

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister’s statement that there is nothing in Islam which justifies acts of terror was a call for unity at a time when many of us felt frightened. The Prime Minister was right: we must respond to senseless violence with all the strength of a united society. When community leaders of all faiths work together to guide young people away from extremism, they strengthen our society. That is the kind of constructive action we need. The spreading of religious prejudice is far from constructive. Islamophobia and any other kind of religious hatred will only divide Britain. Religious hatred and the fear-mongering that goes on with it has no place in a civilised country.

First, I want to deal with the myth that terrorism is an Islamic phenomenon. In July 2011, 77 people were murdered and 150 injured in Norway. Acting on the belief that immigrants were undermining the Christian values of his country, Anders Breivik identified himself as a Christian crusader. I do not think that Breivik was a Christian. I do not think that his actions reflect Christianity or that Christianity has something fundamentally wrong with it because he claims to be acting in its name.

The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, mentioned Pavlo Lapshyn, who stabbed an 82-year-old man, Mohammed Saleem, in Birmingham. Pavlo Lapshyn also planted three bombs outside mosques. Lapshyn cited his desire to stir up racial tension as the motivation for his crimes. Surely this makes it our duty to quash any racial tension that this kind of violence stirs up.

The noble Lord mentioned the Buddhist monks who have been attacking the Rohingya communities in Burma, killing thousands of Muslims, and Hindu nationalists have also bombed in India. They do not represent the majority of Hindus or Buddhists. From the reign of Bloody Mary and her burning of hundreds of Protestants to the troubles of Northern Ireland between Protestants and Catholics, our history illustrates that it is ignorance, prejudice and the desire for power—not religion—that fuels violence.

Even so, some will draw comfort from blaming the Muslim community. In an interview in 2009, the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, stated:

“Muslims are breeding ten times faster than us”.

To me, this dehumanising language echoes the anti-Semitic comments made about Jews in the 1920s. When the noble Lord says “ten times faster than us”, what does he mean by “us”? Would he separate British Muslims from the rest of British society? Millions of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs served in the British Armed Forces across two world wars. British Muslims have also served and died in Afghanistan.

Quotations from the Holy Koran have been used by Geert Wilders and the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, including verse 14 and other verses in Surah 9, and Surah 47, verse 4. I tell noble Lords that those quotations are out of context. They are not even interpreted. I challenge him to recite three words in Arabic and see whether he can do the translation.

The truth is that the right reverend Prelate was right. I could quote 18 examples from the Holy Bible that could be misinterpreted, but I do not want to go down this route. As a politician, I want to remind noble Lords of a quotation:

“I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. …You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might … You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: it is victory, victory at all costs … victory, however long and hard the road may be”.

That is not Lord Ahmed calling for jihad in the House of Lords or threatening the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, as he claimed in Washington DC on 28 October 2009. This is our great war-time leader, the Prime Minister Winston Churchill, in the House of Commons on 13 May 1940. It can be read at col. 1502 in Hansard. I do not need to remind your Lordships of the two world wars. There were 16 million deaths in the First World War and 60 million in the Second World War. I need not mention the colonial wars. Everywhere you dig into European colonialism in Afro-Asia there are bodies—lots of bodies—as well as between 1916 and 1930 in Tsarist and Soviet Russia. Lives were also lost during the fight for Algerian independence. I could go on. None of them were Muslims.

I know that my time is up. All I want to say is that the Koran teaches me: do not argue with the people of earlier scripture. Even if they do, tell them that you believe in the same God as they do.

Pakistan: Religious Violence

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd May 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Ahmed]

My Lords, I join all noble Lords who have praised the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for securing this short debate and for his commitment to human rights and raising issues of minorities around the world, and in particular in Pakistan.

I begin by congratulating the parties that have won elections, Mian Nawaz Sharif, and also Imran Khan, because we expect a different type of governance from them. Their Government will need huge support because they face many challenges—on energy, economy, human rights, corruption, debt and sorting out this dysfunctional Government. I think perhaps there is work for the UN to try to help so that the law and order situation can also be improved.

Pakistan has suffered from the Soviet Union invasion and the war on terror, and I believe that there are external proxy wars in Pakistan as well. That is why various figures have been mentioned; the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, mentioned 49,000 lives, and the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, mentioned 30,000 civilians. I know that more than 6,000 police officers and army personnel have lost their lives. That is more than in any other country that has been fighting the war on terror. People have been killed in mosques, houses, businesses, bazaars and offices; even Pakistan’s intelligence service headquarters in Lahore, Peshawar, Quetta and Karachi have been attacked. I say this because I will come to some conclusions later and make some recommendations. Even Pakistan’s army headquarters were attacked.

We have heard about the appalling violence against Christian, Ahmadi, Hindu and Shia communities and minorities. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, mentioned that at least 325 Shia were murdered last year. A barrister told me that last year 1,450 deaths were recorded, and there were targeted killings in Mardan, Kohistan, Mansehra, Gilgit and Karachi—and the list goes on. Even though under Pakistan’s constitution there is complete equality for every citizen, we know that in this part of the world religious extremists, whether the BJP in India or the Islamists in Pakistan, use religion for political power. Even Sunni tribes have been driven out of the villages of Beshara and Bohra. There is lawlessness in Baluchistan, whether by nationalists or the al-Qaeda-linked and banned organisation Lashkar-e Jhangvi, and there are attacks on the Hazara community. The worst thing is not the appalling terrorist attacks that take place but the fact the Government were silent and did nothing, until the coffins of victims were left on the road for days, after which the Prime Minister and government officials came from Islamabad and the bodies were buried.

I shall say a little about the allegations made in London about a political mafia. We know that there are nationalists and in Karachi there are land mafias, drug mafias, extortion mafias and political mafias. Serious allegations have been made against Mr Altaf Hussain, the leader of the MQM. I have an e-mail from an association of journalists in Pakistan stating that journalists’ families have been threatened. In his address, which was televised on 11, 13 and 15 May, Mr Hussain made direct threats against people who were protesting at the Three Swords roundabout. People have drawn my attention to the offences committed under Sections 44, 45 and 46 of the Serious Crime Act and inciting terrorism overseas. The British high commissioner in Islamabad and the British Government have been approached in relation to that. Will the Minister say whether the Government have had complaints and what action they or Scotland Yard will take against this gentleman, who is sitting in London and threatening Pakistan’s security?

Finally, I turn to what is needed in Pakistan. Strengthening the criminal law against terrorism is very important. People who were arrested for attacking the GHQ are now out. Every speaker has mentioned people not being prosecuted, but that is because they have been able to run free as the laws are not tight enough. Pakistan needs help, and I ask the Minister whether any help is available to the Pakistani Government in tightening up criminal and terrorism laws.

Police officers must be appointed on merit, although in Karachi the MQM has been insisting on police officers belonging to its group. No wonder there are so many problems. The rest of Pakistan is the same; it is not only happening in Karachi. As I said, such appointments must be based on merit, witnesses must receive protection and be free of intimidation, and there must be protection for officers and judges. There must be engagement with political forces which are disenfranchised and want to be part of the mainstream politics. There also has to be targeted action against al-Qaeda-linked organisations, whoever they are; they cannot hide behind political parties. We have to encourage this.

Finally, Pakistan needs help rather than criticism. I do not think that there is a war going on within Islam; a lot of it is political, and that needs to be resolved politically as well.

Kashmir

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Lords Chamber

Tabled by

[Lord Ahmed]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they support a peace process between India and Pakistan to resolve all outstanding disputes, including regarding the right of self-determination for the people of Kashmir.

[Lord Ahmed]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords from all parts of the House for taking part in today’s short debate. Since 2004, civilians living near the line of control have welcomed and celebrated the sense of peace in both Indian and Pakistani-administered Kashmir, even though there were 75 ceasefire violations and eight people died in an exchange last year. Diplomatic efforts by both India and Pakistan prior to that saw such events as the granting of most favoured nation—MFN—status to Pakistan by India in 1996. Pakistan has made attempts to return this favour to India more recently.

We hear a lot about the terrible Mumbai attacks, allegedly perpetrated by LeT, from Pakistan, which have damaged relations. However, the Indian Home Secretary, Mr RK Singh, on Tuesday said that the intelligence agencies had the names of at least 10 persons involved in the Samjhauta Express, Mecca Masjid and Dargah Sharif blasts who were associated with the terrorist organisation RSS, which I understand is linked to the BJP and is backing Mr Narendra Modi, Chief Minister of Gujurat. He is a leading candidate in the BJP leadership elections and a future Prime Minister of India. That is frightening.

Further tensions have been created since Sunday 6 January this year, when Pakistan reported that one of its soldiers was shot dead by Indian troops. Four more fatalities have occurred, which has further escalated the tension between the two nations. Both sides are laying blame on the other, further escalating tension. Indian’s claim that one of its soldiers had been decapitated by Pakistani soldiers has been totally denied.

I understand that Pakistan’s Foreign Minister has contacted the United Nations Military Observer Group for India and Pakistan and asked it to conduct an inquiry into the breach of the ceasefire in an exchange of fire in the Rampur-Haji Pir area on the line of control. She has denied allegations of tit-for-tat tactics by Pakistan and has urged the media to avoid negative propaganda. She has called for a dialogue and for calm on all sides.

I thank the House of Lords Library for sending the recent press reports which have noted an escalation of cross-border violations and stressed the seriousness of the damage that it will have on bilateral relations between the two powerful nuclear states. I believe that this has huge consequences for regional peace as well as global peace due to the danger of nuclear weapons.

Noble Lords will be familiar with the reports of the ongoing torture, murder and rape of ordinary civilians in Kashmir. A systematic campaign to induce fear is a tool fearlessly employed by Indian forces as a means of social control. I recall that the Foreign Secretary, the right honourable Mr Hague, made a policy statement last year asking the UN to include rape as a “weapon of war” in conflict situations. I pay tribute to the Channel 4 documentary last year, which exposed abuses of human rights and the existence of 2,700 unknown, unmarked and mass graves. These graves contained over 2,943 bodies across 55 villages in Kashmir. This came from research conducted between November 2006 and November 2009 by the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir. The report was conducted by an American professor, Angana Chatterji, the renowned human rights lawyer, Parvez Imroz, and their colleagues. The graves contained bodies from murders that took place between 1990 and 2009. They included corpses of victims of massacres and executions committed by Indian military and paramilitary forces. More evidence has since emerged and is being exposed.

This is a clear indication of crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide. Despite there being clear evidence of breaches of human rights, to date, there has been no statement from the International Criminal Court regarding this matter. The ICC prosecutors have been vocal regarding African regimes; but what about serving officers of the Indian Army? At this stage I draw the attention of noble Lords to the petition signed by 25 British MPs, four Peers and four MEPs for the mortal remains of Maqbool Butt, the founder of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front, who was hanged in a jail in Delhi in 1984, to be returned to the family to be buried in Kashmir.

The Minister will be aware of the case of Nepalese Colonel Kumar Lama who was arrested earlier this month and charged in the UK with two counts of torture during his country’s civil war in 2005. On 6 December 2012, the Guardian reported that 500 alleged perpetrators of human rights abuses—from low-ranking policemen to serving Indian army generals—had been involved in shooting, abduction, torture and rape in the Indian-administered Kashmir. A complete list has been published by the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir.

Can the Minister confirm whether Her Majesty’s Government would be willing to arrest any of these accused if they ever tried to enter the United Kingdom? Will she consider putting those names on our watch list and banning them entering the United Kingdom? Noble Lords will be familiar with the heavily publicised case of Jyoti Singh Pandey, a 23 year-old Indian student who was raped and subsequently died. I pay tribute to the Indian public for their collective display of zeal and vigour in their attempt to bring the perpetrators of this heinous crime to justice. Their voices were heard in all corners of the globe by people who shared their sympathy and disgust at the crime committed. It is with such spirit that I ask noble Lords today to turn to the suffering and rape of girls and women in Kashmir. Their cries must not go unheard, and the perpetrators of this crime must also be brought to justice. Their suffering must be brought to an end.

There have been recent reports of prisoners of war in Indian prisons from 1965 and 1971. Whether they are prisoners of war from Pakistan or from India, they should all have been released, and should be released now. Kashmir remains one of the world’s oldest and longest militarised zones, with United Nations observers on the line of control since 1949. It must not be forgotten that self-determination has been a struggle fought by Kashmiris long before the struggle for an independent India and Pakistan. This struggle for self-determination has been debated and promised in history by former Prime Minister Pandit Nehru on many occasions, including 19 July 1951 when he said:

“Kashmir has been wrongly looked upon as a prize for India or Pakistan…Kashmir is not a commodity for sale...It has an individual existence and its people must be the final arbiters of their future.”

My observation over the years has only strengthened my view that self-determination talks, confidence-building measures or comprehensive dialogue between India and Pakistan are meaningless without the involvement of Kashmiri leadership.

I have also heard many a time that Britain has a moral responsibility to the people of Kashmir because of its colonial history in that region, yet nothing seems to be done. The United Nations Security Council resolution of 1948 and 1949 promised a free, “fair and impartial plebiscite” for the Kashmiri people. I know that they are old resolutions. I know that they are not enforceable by force, but can the Minister confirm whether Her Majesty's Government recognise these resolutions as valid and legal documents?

Can the Minister confirm whether Her Majesty's Government have raised with the Indian Government the ratification of the UN Convention against Torture and its optional protocols? Can the Government consider suspending military relations with India until India ratifies the UN convention? Is she aware whether the UN special rapporteur on torture to India, including Kashmir, has published any findings in relation to the above?

I want to see better relations between India and Pakistan. I want both peoples to prosper and live in peace. For the sake of millions of poor Indians and poor Pakistanis, I want to see the end of money wasted on nuclear weapons, and instead spent on health and education and on the eradication of poverty and disease. This can be achieved only by resolving the bitter dispute, the long-standing issue of right of self determination for the Kashmiri people. This issue must be resolved before the international community withdraws from Afghanistan or I fear Kashmir may give extremists a rallying point.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Thursday 17th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmed]

My Lords, today the noble Lord, Lord Howell, mentioned the Arab spring, the Middle East, Iran and Afghanistan. I was hoping that the regional stability of South Asia would also have been mentioned due to the great challenges faced by ISAF, NATO and Afghanistan’s neighbours. I realise that there are experts in your Lordships’ House who understand defence and foreign relations strategy much better than me. However, I have made a number of observations about the current situation in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the unresolved issues between India and Pakistan, particularly the right of self-determination for the Kashmiri people as well as the current bigger role cut out for India and the perceived isolation of Pakistan.

I am chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Kashmir. We have received the report by the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir, which documents the buried evidence of 2,700 unknown and unmarked mass graves containing more than 2,943 bodies across 55 villages. These graveyards contain victims of murder and fake encounter killings between 1990 and 2009. The bodies include those extrajudicially, summarily and arbitrarily executed and the victims of massacres committed by Indian military and paramilitary forces. Even in the past 18 months, over 100 peaceful demonstrators have been killed.

Kashmir has remained to be the longest outstanding internationally recognised dispute, and the UN Resolutions of 1948, 1949 and others have remained unimplemented for decades. I welcome the recent dialogue between India and Pakistan; however, the issue of Kashmir must be resolved. The Kashmiri leadership needs to be consulted and included in all future talks by both India and Pakistan. This is essential for the 12 million Kashmiris as well as the over 700,000 British Kashmiris who have consistently supported a UN-sponsored free, fair and impartial plebiscite to decide the future of their people.

Peace and regional stability in South Asia depend on how stakeholders are consulted and their interests sought. According to various media reports, India has been playing an ever increasing role in the rebuilding of Afghanistan, which is detrimental to cohesion in South Asia. Pakistanis feel sandwiched between their eastern boarder and the Afghan border.

Our forces, ISAF, NATO and DfID have contributed greatly to the cause of Afghanistan and the development there. It is important that this legacy be better protected and honoured. The training of the Afghan military in India or by the Indian Army inside Afghanistan can cause unrest with Pakistan. The presence of Baluchi nationalist militants in Afghanistan also concerns the Pakistan authorities. I welcome the invitation to Pakistan to attend the Chicago summit. I understand that there is some progress in discussions with the Government of Pakistan to reopen the Afghan border routes for NATO supplies, which it had closed after the killing of 24 Pakistani soldiers at the border.

It is important for any relations to create trust between the countries, but unfortunately there is a problem of trust between Pakistan and its old friends. For example, I understand that in private meetings, the Pakistani leadership has never objected to drone attacks yet, publicly they have always condemned the US for violating the country’s sovereignty. This has sent out the wrong signals inside Pakistan. The current elected Government in Pakistan are weak and dysfunctional, which is why, unfortunately, they lack direction and credibility abroad.

It is right to mention that Pakistan has made a bigger contribution in the loss of lives than any single NATO country or ally. As the front-line state in this “war on terror”, Pakistan has lost over 30,000 civilians and over 5,000 soldiers and police officers. Many estimates of economic and financial losses go beyond $75 billion. We have to remember that Pakistan has housed over 4 million refuges from Afghanistan since 1979, and even today there are more than 2 million refugees in Pakistan. We have to remember that Pakistan has 4 million to 5 million heroin addicts, and the tribal areas have occasionally become no-go areas for the state. Many in Pakistan believe that this is due to the direct influence of its neighbour.

It is in that context that I urge Her Majesty’s Government to continue supporting Pakistan. Geo TV, a Pakistani channel, reported last night that Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani was in a meeting with our Prime Minister last week, agreeing terms for resuming NATO supplies through Pakistan. Will the noble Minister confirm whether progress was made in relation to this?

I congratulate the Government and thank them for considering Pakistan and making it the largest recipient of British aid over the next three years, focusing on education, which is desperately needed for the training of teachers, for giving females more opportunity in schools and for helping Pakistan to achieve its millennium development goals. Has Pakistan has been consulted on its role in Afghanistan? Have Her Majesty’s Government encouraged both India and Pakistan to find a permanent solution on the issue of Kashmir?

Pakistan

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Ahmed]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they discussed the issues of democracy, the rule of law and respect for judicial judgments with the Prime Minister of Pakistan on his recent visit.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, democracy and the rule of law were discussed with Prime Minister Gilani during his visit. We discuss these issues regularly with the Pakistan Government.

[Lord Ahmed]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Is he aware that Yousaf Raza Gilani was convicted by the Supreme Court of Pakistan of contempt for failing to ask the Swiss authorities to reopen a money laundering case against the President? Is he also aware that his son, Ali Musa, is being investigated by the antinarcotics force for importing 10,000 kilograms of the controlled drug ephedrine, which is used for producing cocaine and other drugs? What message did Her Majesty’s Government give to the people of Pakistan when they invited a Prime Minister who is not even accepted by the opposition in Pakistan as the Prime Minister, and when there are allegations that he is corrupt, that his son is involved in drug production and that his President is involved in money laundering?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am aware of the matters that the noble Lord raises, but I must emphasise that they are internal matters for the Government and people of Pakistan and are not matters in which we can be involved. The discussions which we hold are, in general terms, about democracy, the rule of law and the aspirations to see Pakistan develop in a stable, democratic way. Pakistan is a friend and a nation that has faced great difficulties. When friends face difficulties, you help them; you do not just walk away.

Pakistan

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Ahmed]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the Government of Pakistan regarding the democratic process in that country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, between 11 and 13 January my and noble friend Lady Warsi visited Pakistan, where she called on Prime Minister Gilani and Foreign Minister Rabbani Khar. She expressed the UK view that a strong, stable, constitutional democracy was in the interests of Pakistan. We are following the political situation in Pakistan closely. We want Pakistan to enjoy credible elections that respect the constitution and help ensure stability.

[Lord Ahmed]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Does he agree that it is important for any democratically elected Government to show respect for law, the courts and public opinion, and to reject corruption, nepotism and bribery? Therefore, does he also agree that it is better to work with national institutions such as the civil service and the army to modernise and reform them rather than criticising them in public? Finally, will he help the Government of Pakistan try to negotiate some sort of peace deal with the Taliban in Pakistan?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

From the British point of view, the sentiments about how democratic Governments should develop are admirable. There are certain matters inside Pakistan that it is not our business to be concerned with or to solve; they lie with the people of Pakistan. However, the general principles that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, outlined are the right ones. Dealings with the Taliban, too, are a matter for the Pakistan Government. There are delicate and important areas where contact with the Taliban appears to be developing internationally. This may be part of the progress and help needed to see Afghanistan get on a better path.

Pakistan

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2011 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Ahmed]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the contribution made by Pakistan as the front-line state in the “war on terror”.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, Pakistan remains an important partner in the fight against terrorism. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister stated following his meeting with President Zardari on 4 July last,

“working together to defeat terrorism in all its forms is very much top of our agenda”.

The al-Qaeda core has been severely weakened over the last six months. It is important that the UK and Pakistan, together with other key international partners such as the United States, continue to work together to disrupt terrorist groups which threaten all our interests.

[Lord Ahmed]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Will he join me in sending condolences to the families of 26 Pakistani soldiers who were killed by a NATO air strike a few days ago? Is he aware that Pakistan has lost over 30,000 civilians and over 5,000 soldiers—more than any other country in the world—as well as $75 billion to $80 billion, and that Pakistan has hosted over 6 million refugees from Afghanistan? Separating the sacrifice made by the people of Pakistan from Ali Baba and his 40 companions, will the Minister assure the House that the British taxpayers’ money allocated to DfID for education and training teachers will not end up in this individual’s private accounts in Switzerland?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, my Lords, as regards condolences, I certainly join the noble Lord. In fact, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to the Foreign Secretary of Pakistan only the other day to offer his deepest condolences. A full investigation of that really tragic and dreadful incident is, of course, under way. I hope Pakistan will participate fully in that investigation. The United States has expressed its regret at the loss of life.

As regards the suffering faced by Pakistan, I think we all acknowledge the colossal strain on Pakistan, its society and all its citizens, with the conditions they face not only on the terrorist side, but also through the visitations of floods and other challenges, all of which add great difficulty to Pakistan’s administration. As for our aid, I can assure the noble Lord that all our aid is independently evaluated and scrutinised under our UK Aid Transparency Guarantee, and that certainly applies to all aid to Pakistan as well.

Human Rights: Kashmir

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We are of course aware of the Amnesty International report. As with human rights questions in any part of the world, we are concerned, as would be all responsible citizens and responsible countries. Our high commission officials have visited Kashmir and discussed the issue with human rights groups but I have to emphasise that it is not for the United Kingdom to prescribe solutions to these matters. That is for the Indian-administered authorities to deal with and it is for India and Pakistan together to find a lasting solution to the overarching issue of the Kashmir situation.

[Lord Ahmed]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that a US-based international people’s tribunal on human rights and justice in Indian-administered Kashmir uncovered hundreds of mass graves and thousands of unidentified graves? Will Her Majesty’s Government support Amnesty International in its call for an independent and impartial inquiry into these mass graves? Will Her Majesty’s Government encourage both India and Pakistan in a dialogue where Kashmiris can also take part to resolve this outstanding issue?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We take the view that the three investigators appointed to help resolve the situation and look into these details must proceed with their work. We will clearly follow this very carefully and closely but it is a matter for investigation by the three appointees. That is what is now occurring.

Pakistan: Religious Minorities

Lord Ahmed Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is right, as was the noble Lord, Lord Alton, to remind us of the original qualities and values which the founders of the state of Pakistan, and obviously Mr Jinnah himself, put forward. In the present situation we want to try to maintain, deepen and, in some cases, resurrect these things. As to our own direct links with Pakistan, I am told that there are 1 million British citizens in this country with family connections in Pakistan. Believe it or not, the number of visits and journeys undertaken between this country and Pakistan each year amounts to 1.4 million. So our ties are close, which puts us in a position where we have responsibility and, I hope, credibility and some authority in dealing with our Pakistani friends.

[Lord Ahmed]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that Articles 20, 21, 22, 26 and 27 of the Pakistan constitution guarantee rights for all minorities? Does he agree that the rights of all citizens, regardless of their religion or group, should be protected? Pakistan is at war with extremists and terrorists, and since expressing its support for Operation Enduring Freedom, has lost some 34,000 citizens. Is not the right approach that of supporting Pakistan’s institutions and its democratic Government, as Her Majesty’s Government are already doing? It is better to support friends when they are in difficulties rather than kicking them when they are down.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is correct. No one questions the fact that Pakistan is facing fearful challenges of all kinds, one of which is its contiguity to Afghanistan and the challenges of extremism. Taliban operations are just one example of many pressures on Pakistani society. Of course we must approach these matters in a supportive mood, but we must also uphold our values. The fact is that, for instance, the blasphemy legislation is part of the Pakistan penal code. We have raised the issue of that kind of legislation by pointing to some of the tensions and excitements it generates. We would like to see a pattern where that kind of regulation, along with the attitudes and terms it generates, is less prominent. That might lead to some reduction in the violence and the apparent readiness of some people to commit acts of terrible atrocity, particularly the two murders just mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Alton.