Israel and Gaza

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure my noble friend that we are considering all elements. When we look at the two combatants, as he described them, Israel is a recognised state with international obligations and is important as a partner and friend. We remind it of its obligations. Those with influence over Hamas are reminded that violence is never a means to an end. Enforcement means we ensure that every lever of our diplomacy, every lever we have working with our international partners, is used on both sides to ensure, first and foremost, that the fighting stops; secondly, that we build the process to ensure sustainable peace; and, thirdly, that it is understood that there will be no future peace unless we have two nations that recognise not only their own sovereign right to exist but, equally, that the people and citizens of those two countries must enjoy equal rights, security and justice.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is intolerable, but I want to ask the Minister about the role of UNRWA in all this. UNRWA was certainly in league with Hamas in many of its recent actions, and on 7 October. Now it seems to be playing a role in preventing aid getting across. I heard today, for example, that it was preventing forklift trucks appearing at crossings to allow the transfer of goods. It was also stopping the world food agency getting food in, which Israel is trying to promote. UNRWA is playing a bad game. What does the Minister think of that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

UNRWA has been severely challenged over the reports and allegations made against specific members of UNRWA staff. In that regard, I am sure the noble Lord will agree with me that the UN acted quite decisively on the individuals whose names were shared by Israel with UNRWA. I do not agree with the noble Lord on some of the specifics of what these individuals were doing. From speaking with the Palestinian Authority, I understand that they had an important role in Gaza in providing support. I am not aware of the specific report about forklift trucks that the noble Lord raises. I will certainly look into that.

As I said earlier, we are fully supporting the wider UN effort. The noble Lord will know that the Secretary-General and former French Foreign Minister Colonna are conducting an investigation into the specifics of UNRWA and its future. It is important that the concerns that we and our international partners have raised are fully mitigated before we look at any future funding and support for UNRWA.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept some well-earned thanks for the tireless efforts that he and the Foreign Secretary have made in recent days? But I think he is saying now—perhaps he will confirm this—that, for any short-term pause or ceasefire to be sustainable, it needs to be anchored in a medium to long-term diplomatic negotiation about Israel and Palestine and their respective statehoods. Does he not think that the position he has spelled out this afternoon risks once again slipping back into a situation in which Israel, which we all recognise as a state, declines to recognise Palestine as a state, and the longer-term negotiations therefore get nowhere?

Would it not be better to think in terms of a situation in which all participants in the negotiation for a long-term solution—not just Israel and Palestine; it would certainly need to include all the Arab states around—recognise from the beginning that they are talking about two states and that the only point of the negotiations is to determine their mutual relationship in peaceful coexistence?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks. He has also demonstrated his insights as a very distinguished former diplomat. I can assure the noble Lord that is exactly what we are doing. I mentioned the immediate, the medium and the long term. These are all pillars that we are currently working on. I assure the noble Lord that it is not just our traditional partners; we are working very much with key partners in the Gulf; we are working with those countries which have peace agreements with Israel—namely, Jordan and Egypt—but also, importantly, the Abraham accord countries, which are also playing an important role. Our approach is that every country, every nation across those pieces, from the negotiations to the delivery of the two-state solution ensuring peace and justice for both Israelis and Palestinians, whatever equity they can bring to the table, they should bring it now, so we can determine the plan and work to a single process, which involves, as the noble Lord says, all key partners, the Israelis and the Palestinians, but also all those who long for, as we do, a sustainable peace now to ensure stability and security for the whole region.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I think I have already stated what the immediate step is. Before we can go anywhere in terms of the political horizon, we need the fighting to stop; that must be the first part of the delivery of this process, and that is exactly where we are focused—in terms of those who have influence over Hamas, but also we are working very closely with Israel to create the conditions to allow the hostages to be returned and for aid to enter Gaza on the scale that is now needed to avert a humanitarian catastrophe. That is needed now. However, we fully accept that there will need to be reconstruction, there will be a need to ensure sustainable amenities and there would also need to be security guarantees for Israel. I assure all in your Lordships’ House that is exactly the kind of conversations across the piece that we are having, not just with the Israelis and Palestinians but also, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, with key partners in the region, who also want to see for their own citizens security and stability in the region.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Clarke of Nottingham (Con)]

My Lords, practically every Government from outside that is taking an interest could quite easily agree on the path that my noble friend has been describing, leading to a two-state solution and a permanent ceasefire. The difficulty is there seems to be not the slightest prospect of Hamas ever agreeing to accept the continued existence of Israel and not the slightest chance of a Netanyahu Government agreeing to a two-state solution, which they would regard as giving Hamas a victory for its 7 October activities—and they probably have the majority of the Israeli population at this present time agreeing with them at least on that. As noble Lords have indicated in earlier questions, the only way that anyone can foresee the kind of agreement that my noble friend has been describing being reached is by some sort of enforcement mechanism being applied from outside. A peacekeeping mission would need to be established to try to ensure that it does not all collapse and go back into calamity in a very short time. I realise that that is a big proposition, which could never happen unless the US Government began to take an interest in that kind of intervention. Have the British Government considered that kind of approach? Have we ever raised it with our American allies? Is there any prospect of getting together with the Arab states to contemplate such a thing? Otherwise, although we wish every success to the present activities, I cannot believe that many people listening to this are optimistic about their success.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend will know from his time in government that there are details that are currently under way with regard to securing what is necessary for Israel and providing it with security guarantees. That will constitute a presence beyond the Israeli Army that is currently in Gaza that has the confidence of the Palestinians within Gaza, but, importantly, has the security guarantees that Israel needs. We are working on that.

On the specifics, of course we are working hand in glove with the Americans. My noble friend will have seen the Secretary of State’s repeated engagements in the region, and we are complementing those. This is very much a coherent effort. If I may personalise this, in my almost seven years at the Foreign Office I have never known a diplomatic effort of this nature that is so intertwined with key partners—not just traditional partners, such as those within the EU and of course the US, but our key partners in the region that are playing the important role of ensuring that the Arab presence on security will be acceptable to the Palestinians. I cannot go into more detail, but I assure my noble friend that we are very much seized of that.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Obviously, the situation in Gaza is fluid, but there are processes that we have to go through that include Israeli checks as the aid goes into Gaza, so there are mitigations in place. Until we get a full assessment of Gaza, it will never be possible to establish what the needs are, but we are hoping that the pause will lend itself to making the needs assessment and the security assessment that are necessary. Perhaps we will hear from the noble Viscount now.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

I thank the Minister. I want to ask a practical question about the desperately needed humanitarian aid. Like me, other Members of this House may have seen the video footage of the air drop that was made to the hospital in northern Gaza of UK aid in co-operation with the Jordanian air force. Can the Minister assure the House that this is the type of practical activity that will continue for as long as necessary, bearing in mind that, although he said earlier that hundreds of trucks were needed every day, this type of targeted assistance, which, as I understand it, went directly to where it is needed, will continue for as long as possible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can make that assurance to the noble Viscount. To pick up on the previous point, such aid deliveries could not be achieved unless they were co-ordinated with Israel. The UK Government are seized of what we need right now. We are working on maritime and air access, and I emphasise access through operational points at the border, particularly Kerem Shalom, which is six lanes wide and was made for the very purpose of ensuring that aid could be delivered expeditiously into Gaza. I am sure I speak for every noble Lord, irrespective of where they are on what is understandably a highly emotive situation: we are on the brink of a humanitarian crisis and we need to ensure that we use all the levers and every method possible to make sure that aid reaches those who most desperately need it.

Iran

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Thursday 6th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will take each of the issues in turn. First, on the governance and the announcement made today, this is a new Iran-specific sanctions regime, which is, in terms of the geography, the first autonomous one. We have had rollovers of what we did with the European Union, but this is specific to Iran. When we have previously sanctioned, we have done so under the so-called Magnitsky-style sanctions for human rights violations. That is why the Foreign Secretary was able to announce a further 13 designations under that governance structure of the human rights sanctions regime.

On the issue of charities, we of course work very closely with the Charity Commission. Without going into further details, there is an ongoing review of all organisations that operate to ensure that they adhere to the rules of the Charity Commission. On the suppression of communities within Iran, it is startling and abhorrent that in 2022 Iran executed at least 576 people. That is a minimum figure and is nearly double the previous year. The latest assessments in 2023 indicate that the rate of executions continues to climb, I think to circa 300 already this year. A lot of these executions have what can only be described as a fragile basis. Our long-standing view on the death penalty is very clear: we oppose it. Equally, it is shocking to see that these are young people, often men, who have committed nothing but protest. Even some who have brought glory to Iran are now subject to this most abhorrent of measures.

I referred to the JCPOA as a live deal in as much as it is the one on the table. E3 co-operation continues. As I said, we continue to engage at official level. There is much speculation about, but I will resist the temptation to comment on it; my noble friend will appreciate that. Its primary objective must be non-proliferation and that Iran does not progress on to acquiring nuclear weapons. The JCPOA provides those provisions. As I said, it still awaits a key signature: that of Iran.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. The House will support and understand the measures that have been announced. The Statement refers to

“other hostile activities towards the UK and our partners”.

Can the Minister confirm that this includes cyberattacks and cyberwarfare conducted from within Iran, whether the actors are state actors or bad actors operating from within Iran?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can answer that: yes, we have recognised, both privately and publicly, that there are state actors and others who seek to target the United Kingdom and our key allies. Technology is a new tool, and we need to be very vigilant on mitigation to ensure that the private sector and our public sector services are fully protected.

Missile Incident in Poland

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will know from his own insights, experiences and dealings with Ukraine the importance of ensuring that we stand firm and solid with our friends and partners in supporting it. What President Zelensky’s country is going through is unimaginable. Let us not forget that, as I said, at the time of this incident in Poland missiles were flying in abundance over every city in Ukraine—every key city was under attack in a blanket, indiscriminate missile attack. What we saw in response from President Zelensky, whom we all agree has played an amazing role, was a strong defence of the territorial sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine.

I know the noble Lord is fully aligned with that objective, but I give him that reassurance. That is why, as I said, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, along with other key G20, G7 and NATO leaders, talked directly from the G20 to the President of Poland and, importantly, President Zelensky about the importance of co-ordination. As Ukraine is confronting a time of war, it is important that calm heads prevail.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, the risk of miscalculation in war is very great. The Statement we are discussing is somewhat outdated and has been overtaken by events, which have shown that cool and calm analysis is necessary in what would otherwise be a dangerous situation. The noble Lord referred to the moment when he first heard the news; when I first heard it, like many others, I feared the worst. Fortunately, we now know what happened.

It was a coincidence that the G20 leaders were meeting in Indonesia. It is not for nothing that the photograph of people clustered around the President of the United States and the British Prime Minister has been published all over the world, but they just happened to be there together. Can the noble Lord assure the House that the experience of this incident will be used to make sure that the mechanisms for conferring within NATO and, in light of the previous comments, with the President of Ukraine—whose views slightly diverged from what has otherwise been a fairly common front—are absolutely in order? God forbid that this should ever happen again, but if it did, we would need an effective and quick mechanism to avoid the risk of any terrible miscalculation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Viscount. I assure him that, even within our internal systems, the importance of how information is cascaded, decisions are taken and people are informed is part and parcel of learning from any type of incident such as this. That needs to be reflected in the systems within the FCDO and the MoD and across government. I talked to officials yesterday about this very point. As he said, the G20 was together and President Biden immediately convened a meeting of the G7. That is why NATO matters. Different steps were taken in different places at the same time, which reflected the planning that has gone into ensuring co-ordination at a time of war. As I have said time and again, and I know noble Lords agree, this is not about one country being at war with another or a war on one continent—an escalation of this crisis would have global implications and consequences.

While it was perhaps coincidental, I suggest that there was also a degree of divine intervention at work to ensure that those leaders who have perhaps not been as strong in recognising the impact of this war, not just in terms of food or energy security but its degree of escalation, had that reality brought home. I assure the noble Viscount that the systems and structures are in place. I hope he also recognises that in some of the calls my right honourable friend the Prime Minister made; one of the trilateral calls he immediately made was with my right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary, to ensure that our response as His Majesty’s Government was fully aligned.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks with expert insight on these issues, but I assure him that we are focused on immediate, medium and long-term support. The UK has pledged £100 million to support Ukraine’s energy security and reform, and £74 million in fiscal grant support to Ukraine through the World Bank. We have also provided guarantees which have unlocked nearly £1.3 billion pounds, $1.5 billion of World Bank and EBRD lending to Ukraine, and the first $415 million of this, and the second $500 million in September, have been deployed through the World Bank to fund key lines of government expenditure. This is done in co-ordination with the IFIs and key partners.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand from the Minister that it was Russia that convened the meeting of the Security Council at which this suspension was made clear. However, in the light of the comments from my noble friend Lord Collins and the right reverend Prelate, it is absolutely vital that the United Kingdom does everything it can in the Security Council to help the Secretary-General renegotiate or restart this agreement for grain, because so much of the world in parts of the Middle East depends on it for its existence.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Viscount that that is exactly what we are doing. Our excellent ambassador, Dame Barbara Woodward, has emphasised the importance of restarting this initiative. We are working closely with and behind the UN to ensure that the initiative, which is saving lives in some of the most vulnerable parts of the world, is restored as immediately as possible.

NATO Accession: Sweden and Finland

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Thursday 7th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, referred earlier to these countries’ expertise and insights on the Arctic, which is demilitarised, and that has been a key objective. We need that insight to make sure that is sustained, for example. Our mutual security declarations also mean that the added security and the collective security of the alliance will be sustained and now extended to both countries. Frankly speaking, let us not forget when Russia, and indeed Mr Lavrov, stated repeatedly, “We have no intentions to invade Ukraine”. The reality is very different.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s Statement, and I agree with my noble friends and others that the President of Russia’s one success has been to strengthen and expand NATO. But I ask the Minister whether he might consider the wider effects around the world of the accession of these two countries, especially in view of the fact that there are other areas at risk in the Indo-Pacific region, to which he has already referred—Ukraine is not the only country that might be at risk of invasion—and whether this development in NATO might have a wider effect on other parts of the world and encourage further defensive alliances.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think our approach is a global one, and from a NATO perspective, it is a defensive alliance, and that was the reason the two countries joined. There is broader issue about where our focus is, and when we talk about the Indo-Pacific and our focus in that particular area, it is strategic, and we are looking at a range of partnerships. The AUKUS agreement reflects how we work with our key allies on a range of issues, covering maritime and safe navigation when it comes to commercial routes, but also looks at the whole issue of the seas in terms of protection and co-ordination, and security within the Asia-Pacific region. The noble Lord, Lord West, knows that far better than I do.

Beyond that, we play an important role along with our partners, not just when we look at defensive or military partnerships, but also looking at the economy and economic development. That again is an important lead on how we work consistently and in a collaborative fashion with key allies. In looking at the economic empowering of countries, there are other international players, and we are seeing, with repeated interventions from the IMF, how countries are being disabled in terms of their economies—not just failing to grow but failing to operate altogether. We need to step in to provide alternatives.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe: Forced Confession

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Tuesday 24th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I too heard the interview and I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Northover. As someone who campaigns on the central issue of human rights, her detention was not just a challenge beyond belief for her personally but obviously for Gabriella and for Richard, and we pay tribute to their work in this respect. On the issue of engagement with the Iranian authorities, we regularly raise issues specific to different cases. Some work we do privately, because that is reflective of the engagement that those who are detained and their families ask of us. Of course, we will continue to implore, particularly on the case that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised, that when Iran comes to and reaches an agreement, it needs to uphold it.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords—

Ukraine: War Crimes Allegations

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Monday 4th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the Russians pulled back from Bucha and other cities, I, like other noble Lords I am sure, was left speechless by what we saw unravelling on our screens. I have read reports at the FCDO qualifying some of the scenes that we have been seeing on our television screens. This is happening in 2022 in Europe—it is abhorrent and it churns the stomach. Equally, however, it should bring to focus our need to work together, collectively and collaboratively, to ensure that every perpetrator in the Russian regime, whoever they may be, is brought to account.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, precisely because of what the Minister has just said, we should all bear in mind that this is all denied by the Russians on the grounds that it is fake news, there are actors and it is not real. As we consider what is, as the Minister quite rightly says, unfolding on our screens, can this evidence not be presented by the United Kingdom in our capacity as a P5 member of the United Nations Security Council, as other noble Lords have mentioned?

Ukraine: Discussions with US and China

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Viscount Stansgate

Thursday 17th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Stansgate]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with the governments of (1) the United States of America, and (2) China, about the situation in Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is working very closely with our allies and partners in our continuing condemnation of the actions of Russia and Mr Putin in their reprehensible attack on Ukraine. We have worked very closely with the United States, and the Foreign Secretary visited it last week to further co-ordinate our support for Ukraine. We have also engaged directly with China, and have been clear that China must also stand up for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and not condone Mr Putin’s actions.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that answer. Would he agree that the geopolitics of the world in which we live are being changed by the unjustified war with and invasion of Ukraine? Would he further agree that the Chinese are clearly uneasy about the way in which the situation is developing? As a permanent member of the Security Council of the United Nations, cannot the British Government take an initiative to work with the Chinese and the Americans to try to secure, for example, humanitarian corridors to enable aid to go in and people to come out safely? Will the Government try to promote these actively with all our partners, because it is the right thing to do?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Viscount on both points and I assure him that we are working very closely with the Chinese, among other countries. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke with her Chinese counterpart, Foreign Minister and State Councillor Wang Yi, on Friday 25 February. She underlined the UK’s expectation of China’s role in the current crisis. As we have heard, it has an important role in the multilateral system. We are engaging at all levels, including official and ministerial.

The UN General Assembly vote, where 141 nations came together, demonstrated how we are working with key partners and other countries. It is important that we are universal in our condemnation of the Russian war on Ukraine.