Brexit: Foreign Policy

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 25th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We are, I believe, one of only a few leading nations that fully manifest our commitment to our defence spending and our development spending, which I know all noble Lords support. On the noble Lord’s substantive point about how we will continue to work with our European partners on important issues which he raises such as the refugee crisis that we have seen on European borders, again, if he was to look at the detail of the recent summit with the French, he would see that these kinds of issues come to the fore and decisions are being taken. While, yes, we are leaving the European Union, we will look to work in a collaborative way with our European Union partners once we leave.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, would the Government agree that we built and released an empire and saved Europe from herself in two world wars without any assistance from Brussels? Is not any new EU army pretty well bound to be a dangerous failure, like the EU itself?

Georgia

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 10th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

All noble Lords will be aware that, with the exception of Russia, as I mentioned, there are only, as I understand it, three countries—Nicaragua and Venezuela are two—which have actually recognised the two breakaway republics. To answer the question in reverse, all countries with the exception of those four recognise internationally the territorial sovereignty, including that of Georgia, over the two breakaway regions.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, do the Government agree that your Lordships’ collective wisdom would be of value to them in the controversial area of our relations with Russia generally? If so, will they consider arranging a full debate here before too long?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The collective wisdom of your Lordships’ House is of great value to the Government in all instances. As for a debate on Russia, I am sure that the appropriate usual channels will accommodate that request.

Disabled People: Employment

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, declaring my interest as the father of a Down’s syndrome daughter who lives and works in a Camphill community, could I suggest that the Government encourage local authorities to support many more such places, which are care effective and cost effective, and which can provide a complete way of life, including daily work elsewhere? Surely the Government must agree that this sort of life is often just not available under other forms of care in the community, which can be very lonely and unfulfilling, not to mention very expensive.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Of course the Government are concerned about ensuring a joined-up approach. The noble Lord may be aware that there is a specific consultation within the Department for Work and Pensions, for example, and that a Green Paper has been issued looking at the joined-up approach to work health to ensure that all systems across the board are joined up. We are also looking at the Total Transport initiative specifically across 37 rural areas in England, to see how we can ensure that transport is effective and easily accessible to those in hard-to-reach areas in the country.

Terrorism: Terminology

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 27th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

There are many advocates across all faiths who stand up for faith, and indeed for no faith, and they do so for other faiths as well. That is the beauty of our country. I am proud of Britain. I believe that this country is the best place to be a Muslim, a Hindu, a Sikh, a Jew or a person of no faith. That is because it is based not just on tolerance but on understanding and building mutual respect, and long may that last.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

Crime: Religiously Motivated Crime

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 21st April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is quite right to raise the growing and worrying tide of sectarian differences within different communities and the rising tide of hate crime. In that regard, I am pleased to tell the House that as of 1 April this year, as the noble Lord may well be aware, for the first time all police forces across England and Wales specifically record religious hate crime by religion and not just in its general sense. That is an important step forward.

In Scotland, as the noble Lord will know, there are devolved powers, but we are working very closely with the Scottish Government. Indeed, I will shortly visit Scotland—both Edinburgh and Glasgow—to discuss the issue of the growing tide of religious hate.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, how do the Government react to the National Police Chiefs’ Council’s recent finding that only 8.6% of tip-offs to the Prevent programme have come from the Muslim community? How do they plan to encourage very much more collaboration from our Muslim friends and their leaders in exposing potential extremists?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, let me put on record that every religious community, including the Muslim community, was appalled by the events we saw in Scotland. This is exactly what is required: for the whole country, no matter what your religion or if you are of no faith, to come together to condemn and then unify against extremism in all its ugly guises. I assure the noble Lord that we are speaking extensively to all faith communities, including Muslim communities. There are initiatives such as the Prime Minister’s direct community round tables, on which the Home Secretary is leading. I am talking directly to all faith communities. Most recently I have met other and wider Muslim organisations, including the Bradford Council for Mosques, and earlier this week the Lancashire Council of Mosques and the Bolton Council of Mosques, to discuss the rising tide not just of the challenges we are facing but of Islamophobia and anti-Muslim hatred as well.

Border Force Budget 2016-17

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 20th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord will appreciate that I cannot go into the details of the operations of the Border Force and the cutters being deployed, but I assure him that there is sufficient capability and funding in place. Border Force maintains a presence in UK waters. We work in close partnership in ensuring secure borders with the Royal Navy and the National Crime Agency, among others.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, given that the recent pamphlet of government propaganda, which cost £9.2 million and went to every household in the land, claimed that we have kept control of our borders, will the noble Lord tell us whether we can prevent EU nationals entering the United Kingdom? How many have done so in the last five years, and how many do the Government anticipate will do so in the next five years?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear when he announced the EU referendum that there would be a clear government position. There is, which is the belief that I know is shared by many across your Lordships’ House that the United Kingdom’s place is within the European Union. On the question of entry by EU nationals, while there are border controls in place in the United Kingdom, part of our agreement with the European Union is to ensure that, while EU nationals visit and work in this country, they, like all citizens, including United Kingdom citizens returning from abroad, go through diligent checks at passport control to ensure that we protect our borders from criminals and terrorists who may seek to permeate those borders.

Islam: Extremism

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We are concerned as a Government—as we all are—about any kind of funding which seeks to harm and disturb the nature of our society. The noble Lord referred to a particular issue; the review that has been set up was set up with that very intention: to look at all forms of extremism that seek to influence or distort Islam in a way which is not conducive to the fundamental shared values we enjoy in Britain today.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, does the Government’s analysis of extremist interpretations of Islam include what is preached in our mosques, madrassahs and prisons by imams and extremists speaking in Arabic and other languages? How many reliable interpreters do we have, and should we not fund quite a few more from our own resources?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is not the Government’s role, as I said earlier, to start adjudicating on different interpretations of Islam. The Government’s role—and this is exactly what they are doing—is to protect and secure all our citizens and protect the fundamental values we enjoy, which include the ability to profess, propagate and practise your faith with the basic and fundamental value of respect for all faiths and none in our country. That is what the Government seek to do, and I believe that we all subscribe to that principle.

Religious Hate Crime

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the risk that Christians could be recorded as having committed an anti-Muslim hate crime from April 2016 by preaching the divinity of Christ or by reading aloud sections of the Bible in public, such as 1 John, Chapter 4, verses 1 to 3.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, reading texts from the holy Bible in public or preaching the divinity of Christ is not a crime, and never will be in this country. The Government’s counterextremism strategy makes it clear that we will protect free speech and the right to profess, practise and propagate any religion, or indeed none.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply. I must say that I thought it was brave of the Prime Minister to say in his Christmas message that Jesus is the only son of God, because that will not have gone down all that well with the Islamists. Will a Christian preacher be committing this new hate crime if he goes a little further and denies the supremacy of the Koran, and thus the divinity of Allah? Secondly, I assume that the Minister agrees that the serious hatred is coming from the jihadists, against non-Muslims and against those brave Muslims who oppose the jihadists’ evil creed and form the large majority of the thousands whom they have slaughtered. So how can anyone be guilty of hate if they preach their own religion, even outside a mosque, and take part in much-needed debate about Islam?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the Government are clear that anyone who preaches any kind of hate has no place here, and I believe that all of us across this House unite on that. Bigotry has no place and any kind of hate, be it based on race, sexual orientation or religion, has no place in British society. The Government, our legal system and our police will stand against that. The noble Lord made brief reference to the Prime Minister’s message. My right honourable friend mentioned the holy personage of Jesus Christ, whom Muslims celebrate because, as the noble Lord well knows, Muslims also regard and revere the Prophet Jesus as a prophet of God.

Counterterrorism: Muslim Communities

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, as part of their antiterrorism strategy, they will encourage leaders of the United Kingdom’s Muslim communities to identify, confront and expose their violent co-religionists.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we welcome, acknowledge and indeed thank the many people who are already confronting extremism in this country. The Government are absolutely committed to strengthening our partnership with all those who want to see extremism defeated in all its ugly guises.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. I suppose that it would be dangerous for our Muslim friends to fulfil this Question with the energy which many people would like. Does the noble Lord agree that our Muslim leaders also face the problem that there are more than 100 verses in the Koran which order violence towards non-Muslims and so give theological justification to the jihadists? What does the noble Lord have to say about those verses, not to mention the bellicose example of Muhammad himself, which all Muslims are supposed to follow and which therefore undermine the Government’s strategy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I can say clearly that I totally disagree with the noble Lord in his assertion about the holy scripture and the example of the holy Prophet of Islam. What is true, is fact and is real in this country is that Muslim contributions today, yesterday and for many decades—indeed, centuries—have been widely acknowledged as a positive contribution to the progress of this country, and long may it continue.

Paris Attacks: Violence Against Muslims

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Tuesday 1st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord referred to the tragic events of 7/7. In Britain today, no community, including the Muslim community, has retreated. We are a thriving democracy—multifaith and multicultural—where we celebrate the diversity of our country as a strength. However, the noble Lord is right to ask what the police are doing. We are working hand in glove with the police to ensure that reassurance is conveyed to all communities, irrespective of whatever faith they may be, that the police, the Government and all of us stand with them against all forms of bigotry.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

Islam

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 5th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, as part of their counter-extremism strategy, they will encourage a national debate about the nature of Islam, including whether the Muslim tenet of abrogation remains valid today.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s approach and strategy to countering extremism is firmly based on further strengthening our relationships and work with the communities and organisations across the United Kingdom and together confronting, challenging and disrupting extremism in all its ugly guises.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that fairly helpful reply. Some noble Lords may not be aware that abrogation means that, where there is contradiction in the Koran, its later and more violent verses outweigh its admirably peaceful early texts. Is the noble Lord aware that, together with some Koranic scholars, I have written a short summary of Islam, which I will send him, and that we are asking the Guardian newspaper to hold an open debate as to its accuracy? Secondly, given the seriousness of our domestic situation, could not the Government themselves sponsor a council of our Muslim leaders in which they could clarify the modern meaning of their religion and cast the extremists out of Islam?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I look forward to receiving the noble Lord’s summary of the great religion of Islam. Perhaps during his reflection he will also have noted that, with the exception of one verse in the holy Koran, every verse starts with the words: “In the name of God, the gracious, most merciful”, which underlines the true sentiments and principle of that religion. The Government have very much been engaging in debate across Muslim communities. Indeed, the Prime Minister recently launched an engagement forum where he is meeting with people of all denominations from across the Muslim community and beyond to ensure that we confront extremism, as I said earlier, in all its ugly guises.

Birmingham Schools

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Monday 9th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Perhaps we could hear from the noble Lord, Lord Pearson.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness. Does the noble Lord agree that this activity does not emulate the Trojan horse so much as follow the violent Muslim tenet of al-hijrah, whereby the faithful are instructed to emulate the Prophet after he became established in Medina and sent into exile or slaughtered his generous hosts who did not join his new religion? In this respect, is it not very worrying that one of the schools in question is actually called the al-Hijrah School? If I understood the noble Lord to say that the Government are going to look into this problem elsewhere, will he make sure that they look at least at Blackburn, Bradford, Burnley, Tower Hamlets, Leicester, Dewsbury and Huddersfield?

European Union: Justice and Home Affairs

Debate between Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 8th May 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I am not sure that that is entirely correct. I, too, wish to put a point to the Minister about his speech.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Perhaps I may ask the noble Lord to resume his seat. I think the point that my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale made was valid. There will be an opportunity for my noble friend Lord Taylor to respond at the end of the debate to all the questions that have been raised during it.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

I am afraid that I do not accept this. I still wish to put a very short question to the Minister. He mentioned that the European Public Prosecutor had not been agreed by the Government. Does he not agree that it shows clearly the direction in which the European Union wishes to go, to the eventual detriment of our entire criminal justice system?