Sudan and Eastern DRC

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My noble friend is absolutely right in her latter comments. Since the conflict began in Sudan, 3.6 million refugees have fled to neighbouring countries, including Chad, Egypt, South Sudan, Uganda and the Central African Republic. As the Foreign Secretary said, we have already seen an increase in people crossing into Europe, with the number of Sudanese people arriving irregularly to the UK increasing by 16% from the previous year to 2,882. Not only is UK aid vitally needed on humanitarian grounds but it will help people to stay within their immediate region. Having 3 million people trying to cross the Mediterranean is just not acceptable. We have to focus on those neighbours and on a solution for Sudan. We are committed not only to ensuring that we deliver the humanitarian aid that is so vitally needed now but to finding a political solution that ensures that we return to one Sudan, with a civilian-led Government who will put the interests of the Sudanese people first. That is what we need most.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my entry on the register in working for organisations committed to conflict prevention and resolution. In commending the Minister and his efforts across the piece, I put on record our thanks—I know, having sat where he is, the focus that a Minister engaging at this level brings. Turning to the important responsibility he now carries on preventing sexual violence in conflict, as the Minister will know, the biggest tragedy of all the tragedies that unfold in conflict is that it is the most vulnerable, particularly women and girls, who are targeted in the most abhorrent way by crimes. Over many years, we have supported the Panzi Hospital in the DRC and the excellent work done by Dr Mukwege. Can the Minister please update the House on our continued support for these initiatives that are helping victims at a time when they are facing the worst kind of tragedies and violations of their being?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right. I met Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Edinburgh last week and we talked about that hospital and the vital need to support it, and we continue to do so. As the noble Lord knows, the situation is extremely difficult. With fighting going on between combatants, it is extremely difficult to get in the support that is required, but we are committed to doing so and are supporting every effort to do so. He is right that we should focus on ensuring that the voices of those people suffering such abuse are heard. We have done that in Sudan—we raised it at the UN General Assembly, where we held a meeting so that survivors could speak—and we are determined to do that in the DRC. Many of those in internally displaced people camps have suffered from all kinds of sexual violence. We are focused on supporting them with aid and support, and giving them a voice so that the leaders of the DRC and Rwanda can hear the true consequences of their actions.

Middle East

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

The important thing is that we are working with the Israeli Government and the Palestinian Authority to focus on the security issues the noble Lord points to. That is why we are supporting the Palestinian Authority in its security mechanisms. The Israeli Government also have a duty to ensure that there is proper distribution of that aid, to northern Gaza in particular. It is pretty obvious that the situation is quite fragile, as was seen by the evidence of the release of hostages, but we are absolutely committed. The solution lies in ensuring that the Palestinian Authority has the ability to conduct its security operations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the tone and substance from the Minister and both Front Benches, which reflects the unity of purpose in your Lordships’ House. While I agree with much of what has been said, we must engage directly on the importance of the “day after”, because it is here and now. That means grasping the plans which already exist and building on the framework of the Abraham accords and the three Arab states, including Egypt and Jordan, which are at peace with Israel. We have initiatives, such as the Arab peace initiative and more recently the plan put forward by former Prime Minister Olmert and former Foreign Minister of the PA, Nasser al-Kidwa. These plans exist; they are incremental and structured. Surely we can ensure that the UK Government play their part in the process which is needed now and which runs in parallel with the long-term objective of ensuring that a two-state solution is delivered.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right; there are these plans and discussions, which we need, and the United Kingdom is happy to convene whatever meetings we possibly can. Working with the United States, the Israeli Government, the Palestinian Authority and in particular the Gulf and Arab states together is the way forward to ensuring that there is sustainable peace that delivers security for the people of Israel and Palestine. That is what we are all seeking and the noble Lord is right that we need to bring together all these initiatives that show real commitment to peace.

Syria

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his contributions. As I said in my opening responses, we are absolutely focused on protecting civilians, including religious and ethnic minorities. We have made that clear publicly but, more importantly, in all our conversations with groups. The noble Lord is absolutely right to draw attention particularly to the religious minorities, which have been focused on, and on which we have been keen to focus. By the way, I am sure that the noble Lord will be pleased that we have now appointed a Special Envoy on Freedom of Religion or Belief. I have met him, and we are working together now. This is a key area that we will be particularly focused on.

The noble Lord’s other point came up in our last Statement, and I responded to the noble Baroness, Lady Helic, on it—but at the moment I cannot find it in my notes, so I shall write to noble Lords.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, in recognising and welcoming the Statement, I think that the sentiments in the Statement are reflected in what we all think—but the importance is in actions. Syria is in a very fluid situation, as the Minister acknowledged. I welcome his update on which Minister attended the Aqaba meeting, which Geir Pedersen also attended, along with US Secretary of State Blinken. What were the outcomes from that meeting on specific responsibilities on who does what, and what process will be taken forward, bearing in mind the situation with warring factions and the instability in Syria, as well as the notable challenges that neighbouring countries are facing; for example, from the drugs trade in Captagon, a major challenge for neighbouring states?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

On that last point, of course Captagon is a real challenge, and the Assad regime used it to fund many of its activities. Certainly, it has regional implications, and it has spread to countries in the region. Fortunately, there is no evidence that it has spread to this country, but we are acutely aware of the dangers of it in countries in regional proximity, and we are giving what assistance we can in challenging that.

The noble Lord asked specific questions about the post process. As I said at the beginning, it is very fluid—and it is clear that we need to engage a range of partners, including specific neighbourhood countries but also international multilateral institutions, as we are doing. We are also acutely aware that there are changes ahead in the new year, and we need to ensure that we have consistency of approach. We are working closely with all our colleagues and allies and all countries in the region to ensure that stability, peace and security remain at the forefront of all our efforts.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that contribution. He is absolutely right that we need to judge the situation by deeds, rather than simply words, and we will continue to do so. I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, is in his place because he was one of the longest-serving Ministers in the last Government, as Minister for Foreign Affairs. He and I had debates on Syria in which we supported his Government’s position in not recognising Assad and not recognising that the situation was simple. We were as one in ensuring that we did not give support to Assad’s criminal actions. Some people felt that was the wrong position, but events have proved that both the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, and the then Opposition were absolutely right.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I feel compelled to rise to my feet in the time left to thank the noble Lord. In the same way, we want to work constructively to ensure that the group that is HTS— Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham, the ideological base of this—should not be forgotten. The fact is that it is an extremist organisation with terrorism roots. Yes, they say a leopard does not change its spots—the jury is out. We want to work constructively to ensure that ideological base is challenged. As the noble Lord rightly said, actions speak louder than words.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that comment. I hope I can speak for the next six or seven seconds to ensure that I do not have to respond to any further questions.

Women, Peace and Security Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 15th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the return of this Bill—the sequel. Let us hope that it does not need a trilogy. I hope that the Bill will carry the full support of your Lordships’ House, including that of the Minister. It is of immense regret to me that we were unable to see a previous version of it complete its journey through the legislative process but, at this juncture, I congratulate and commend my dear and noble friend Lady Hodgson on her perseverance in bringing it forward once again. My noble friend knows of my personal commitment previously, as today, and of my full support for both her efforts and this Bill. I am sure that the Government will ensure its secure passage on to the statute book.

I say this to the Minister: I know that arguments against the Bill may be presented. He may ask whether it is the right vehicle. To my mind, it is. He may point out what officials have said to him previously about the Bill possibly limiting or hindering the UK’s ability to progress this agenda on the world stage. To my mind, it does quite the opposite.

On a few occasions when I was Minister of State at the FCDO, I learned about the real, positive ability of challenge—challenge to officials and, at times, even to the person who sat above me: the Foreign Secretary. Why? Because it is absolutely the right thing to do. Let us be clear: the provisions of this Bill are the policy of successive UK Governments. They are a statement of aspirations while highlighting the UK’s strong leadership on this important agenda over many years, which has, as my noble friend Lady Hodgson said, seen real momentum since the passing of the landmark UN Resolution 1325.

Turning to the Bill itself, I want to be practical. Clause 1 incorporates the National Action Plan on Women, Peace and Security, and encompasses UN resolutions. I give a tick to that; there are no objections. Secondly, the Bill talks of annual reporting—a personal bugbear of the Minister when he was in opposition. I know that he loves annual reporting, so there should be no objection to that either. Thirdly, there is a requirement for Government Ministers to have regard to the NAPs. Seeing how much time the FCDO and the MoD spend working together to deliver them, that seems like absolute common sense to me.

The Bill seeks to enshrine the strengthening of human rights, especially for the most vulnerable women and girls. I give a tick to this as well. I know that the Minister shares the same sentiments, focus and priorities around conflict-related sexual violence, where the UK has led the way. On tackling impunity and stigma, the UK has led the way; my noble friend Lady Anelay, whom we shall hear from later, introduced measures on it. The UK has also led the way on protecting and safeguarding the collection of evidence. I remember introducing the Murad code at the UN Security Council, together with the incredible, courageous Nadia Murad. On working with survivors and putting them at the heart of our approach, the UK has led the way. We have heard about the great work of Dr Mukwege. We have been absolutely committed to staff training, women mediators and peacebuilding. I recall launching the Women Mediators across the Commonwealth network. We have seen people such as Mossarat Qadeem, who went into Khyber Pakhtunkhwa to take on the Taliban and extremists. She met the mothers and stopped suicide bombing—a real deliverable.

There is nothing in this Bill that cannot be supported practically. It enshrines government policy and the strategic direction of travel. Importantly, it puts our collective commitment, notwithstanding the desires and focus of the Minister—indeed, of all of us—on a statutory footing. If any provisions need to be amended, notwithstanding her valiant efforts, I know that my noble friend Lady Hodgson stands ready. I stand ready —indeed, we all do—to support the Minister in ensuring that we can make those amendments to make this Bill fit for purpose. There is nothing in the technical elements of the Bill that should not be taken forward.

I have some final comments. Four months into the tenure of the new Government, I implore the Minister, who I know is supportive, to ensure that the Government do the right thing and support my noble friend’s Bill. Ultimately, this Bill does the right things: ensuring that women are at the heart of ending conflict; preventing conflict in the first place; standing up for the brave survivors of sexual violence; and, ultimately, furthering the cause of our collective desire for peace and security. Today, the Minister can show that the Government support those things and let the UK lead the way once again.

International Engagements

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I am glad that the noble Lord has raised our relationship with the Republic of Korea; I think he and I share a respect for its democratic credentials. Our relationship is as close as ever, and certainly, the Downing Street accord elevates that relationship to a global strategic bilateral partnership, placing it second only to that with the US in terms of strength. The noble Lord said that it looks like the DPRK is extending tensions further globally. The assessment is that its troops could be deployed in Ukraine, and that would be a very significant and concerning development. I reassure him that our relationship with the Republic of Korea has never been stronger, and we are determined to develop it.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps there is a typo in the Statement. The first sentence refers to reconnecting Britain. From my seven years as Minister, I recall us being pretty well connected and respected.

I congratulate the excellent new secretary-general elect, Shirley Botchwey, who has done some fantastic work in co-operation with the United Kingdom. A number of countries were not represented at leader level, including South Africa, India and Pakistan. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of their absence, and of the importance of elevating the Commonwealth and working with the new secretary-general elect in ensuring that the Commonwealth is at the heart of British policy?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I reassure the noble Lord that I completely respect his commitment to the Commonwealth and his engagement when he had that responsibility; he did an excellent job, and I hope to ensure that I can continue his work. In that respect, the attendance at CHOGM was incredible. Despite the travel difficulties, we had the highest level of participation from all Governments. The communiqué reflects the importance all our countries place on developing that partnership, which does include economic and trade relationships but is also focused on the challenges the world faces at the moment.

I am hugely optimistic about the role of the Commonwealth in the future. The fact that it is growing and people are expressing an interest in joining is a reflection of its becoming even more relevant today. One of the things I kept saying at the CHOGM meeting when I met government officials is that the Commonwealth is more than Governments and Heads of State, and that is why I spent so much time with the civil society fora talking about building those relationships. So I am very optimistic about the future, but I acknowledge the noble Lord’s work and hope to continue it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

The straightforward answer is that the economic circumstances that this country now faces are very much down to his party and his Government. We should fully understand that. I find it rich for him to lecture me on overseas development, when we had a Prime Minister who crashed the economy of this country and caused huge damage. We are absolutely committed to returning to 0.7% and to getting value for money from our ODA—nothing will change from that. I will give the noble Lord a straight answer: we are giving the maximum amount under the 0.5% commitment. We are sticking to that commitment and will increase it when fiscal circumstances allow.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

If we have time, I will ask a question based on that final point. The previous Government invested a great deal, and both the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, supported the international development strategy that the Government delivered. Can the Minister reassure me that the new Government are absolutely committed to the international development strategy? A lot of time went into its creation and the consultation. I hope the Government will keep it as a guiding principle for development assistance and support around the world.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

The noble Lord knows that, when Andrew Mitchell launched his international development White Paper, he repeatedly said that he did it in consultation. I do not recall the consultation, but I was very happy with the contents of the White Paper. As the noble Lord knows, the new Government are absolutely committed to drawing from its elements. That is why we have asked for an international development review from a Cross-Bench Peer—I have a mental block and cannot remember her name. We are committed to a review that will, I hope, be published in the new year, and it will reflect and build upon that. I know that there is banter in competitive Opposition/Government politics, but one thing we are absolutely determined to do in the international development space is ensure the long-term picture. Far too often there has been short-termism; so much of our international development work requires a longer-term strategy, so we will build upon it.

Middle East

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 29th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I hear my noble friend. I have visited many UNRWA facilities; I have seen schools and health centres and how they deliver. I believe that it is an essential mechanism for delivering support. During the last Government’s suspension of financial support for UNRWA, we were channelling funds to other NGOs to try to mitigate that. It was clear from the statements of the last Government that that would never be sufficient to provide the necessary support that UNRWA gives. It is the responsibility of the United Nations. We will raise it again and support the Secretary-General’s call.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the Minister will be aware, the previous Government, when faced with challenges on land crossings, made sure that we worked with other partners on land, of course, and on sea and air. I implore the Government to look at innovative solutions to the situation in north Gaza, including with Jordan. My question is specific to the peace process and picks up the point made by my noble friend that peace is inevitable—indeed, it was Menachem Begin who coined that phrase—and war is not. To bring an end to this, what is the update —I have asked this before—on the latest peace negotiations between Qatar, the United States and Egypt to bring this awful conflict to a close? A plan is currently being put forward by former Prime Minister Olmert and former Foreign Minister of the PA Nasser al-Kidwa. What consideration has been given to it? In the absence of anything else, it is worth looking at.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I agree. In the discussions in Doha, there is a process that we are giving support to that we hope will result in the return of hostages, which is the mechanism to opening broader peace talks. I think the noble Lord is absolutely right. On access, when I asked him a similar question about other routes, including sea and air, I recall him saying that they can never make up for the huge amount that is required and the border crossings required. He and I have worked well together in the past, and I will certainly continue to take his advice. He is absolutely right.

Gaza and Lebanon

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I assure the noble Baroness that I have been meeting organisations. I am fully aware of the situation. I have an open-door policy when I am here. The reality is that the Prime Minister, and the Foreign Secretary when he visited the region on 14 July, have announced additional funding—£5.5 million to UK-Med for operating its field hospitals in Gaza, extending the medical facilities. During her visit on 7 August, Minister Dodds announced a further £6 million to UNICEF, which is supporting families in Gaza. No one should underestimate the desperate situation. We can all see it; the evidence is quite clear. The only way we can do this is by working with our allies to ensure that the Israeli Government respond to our calls to open the routes in, to ensure that we get proper humanitarian and medical aid into Gaza.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, what assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of the important role that British troops have over many years continued to play in training the Lebanese army in light of the current challenges in the south of Lebanon, the UNIFIL mission and the continuing support required by the Lebanese armed forces, particularly in the north of the country? Are British troops continuing in that vital role?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

They are, and there was a question in the other place on our support for UNIFIL and how we can act. We are keeping all this under review, but I assure the noble Lord that we will maintain that presence and that training.

Anniversary of 7 October Attacks: Middle East

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

I want to say quickly that we are taking questions, and I want to get as many noble Lords in as possible.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for the Statement and all noble Lords who have spoken. There is one important fact which I hope the noble Baroness can focus on. When the attack on Israel happened, there was a majority of Jews who were tragically killed by the abhorrent organisation that is Hamas—and now what we also see from Hezbollah. But let us be clear, as one Muslim leader said to me on my first visit to Israel after 7 October, that there were 26 young Muslim attendees at that very festival. Israel has a rich diversity; places such as Haifa and Jerusalem reflect the three great Abrahamic faiths.

My question is specific to the role of Qatar; I am glad that the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, is sitting next to the noble Baroness. Qatar is investing a lot, and, as my noble friend Lord Howard has said, plays a crucial role in the release of hostages. Can the noble Baroness update us on the specifics of the peace agreements to bring about a ceasefire in Gaza? We were nearly there, just before the Lebanon escalation, and the United States was also very bullish in what are extremely challenging circumstances.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his comments. I think the whole House, even those of us who were delighted by the election result, would pay tribute to him for his work over many years and for the way that he kept the House updated— I thank him for that. Engagement with Qatar, which he is absolutely right to highlight, is ongoing and we are very grateful for its support. It is a friend in the region and that work continues.

The noble Lord’s point about the Muslims who were killed in the October attacks is profound. It illustrates how those who were victims were bringing people together. That is the future: young people, at a music festival, working across faiths and enjoying each other’s company. They paid a price for hatred. To get rid of that hatred—the right reverend Prelate commented on this as well—we have to go beyond the boundaries of our own faiths, not just in the UK but throughout the world, to bring people together. The point is sometimes lost, and I am grateful to the noble Lord for making it, that Muslims were also killed in those attacks. For the whole region, whatever someone’s faith is is irrelevant; the suffering is beyond any faith.

Sudan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Friday 13th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the Minister, for tabling this important debate. As I stand to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, I speak perhaps both for her and me, as we feel very much part—as I joked with my noble friend Lord Hunt—of a spiritual sandwich, following soon after the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds and awaiting the contribution from the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury. That shows the rich diversity, insight and experience of your Lordships’ House on this vital issue.

I seek your Lordships’ indulgence, for a moment or two, in extending for the first time in the Chamber my sincere congratulations to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, on his appointment as Minister for Africa. He has served this House incredibly well. I should know; in the last seven years, I often spent more time with him than with my family, in exchanges and debates at the Dispatch Box.

I share with noble Lords the importance of relationships within your Lordships’ House. There was one occasion that I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Alton, remembers all too well. I take your Lordships back to May 2019 and the case of Asia Bibi—a young lady escaping religious persecution. She was being persecuted simply for being a Christian. Many weeks—indeed, months—had gone into negotiations, with sensitive diplomacy across many countries. At a delicate point in the negotiations, I remember speaking repeatedly to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, over the weekend. As I came in on the Monday, I was alerted by my excellent private office that there was the risk of an Urgent Question being tabled by the other side by the then Leader of the Opposition.

My instant reaction was to immediately call the noble Lord, Lord Collins. I said to him, “Ray, I have an issue and I need to take you into my confidence”. I provided insight and context about what needed to happen. He did not waste a moment. He did what was needed and the Urgent Question was averted. I thank him for that; it is just one example of the many occasions that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and I worked together, as we regularly do with noble Lords across the House, in ensuring that wisdom, experience, insights—and, at times, wit—are fully taken into account as we look to provide real, practical solutions to the problems that face the world.

I therefore welcome this debate and thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, for his support, advice and insights, and for the enduring friendship that we have developed over the last seven years. I look forward to continuing that both within the Chamber and beyond.

We have already heard some incredible contributions in this debate on Sudan. Sudan is a country blessed by God. When I visited Sudan back in 2017 and again in 2019, there was great hope. Khartoum is where the White Nile and the Blue Nile meet, and I remember the importance of communities and civil society, which I will come on to in a moment or two, but also the importance of bringing communities together, religious communities as well. I therefore welcome the contributions from the Spiritual Benches.

When I visited Darfur, in my capacity as the Prime Minister’s Special Representative on Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict, I saw abhorrent practices at first hand. As we have heard from other noble Lords, young girls were being not just victimised but raped repeatedly and with impunity. So we must have accountability as we move forward and we need religious communities to be part of that conversation. I remember resolving the issue of Sunday no longer being given as a holiday for the Christian community. It was resolved not just by diplomacy by nations or by engaging with the then authorities; it came from bringing religious communities together.

We know all too well the humanitarian and economic challenges that Sudan faces. Many noble Lords have articulated them and I will not repeat them. I align myself with much of what has already been said by noble Lords, but the humanitarian situation is stark. Sudan has failed, and the responsibility is not just on Sudan; it is a collective responsibility, as the Minister articulated in his excellent opening.

Children and babies are caught up in this conflict. They face a stark choice: leave your country and travel to another country where you may or may not be looked after, or face the wrath of two generals, Burhan and Hemedti, who believe—absolutely ideologically—that they will end this war by killing each other and whoever sides with the other. That will not be the resolution to this conflict, or indeed others.

The economic challenges and religious and communal tensions must be addressed. We must look to all our regional partners and allies to find a collective solution to the challenges Sudan faces. Therefore, as we look towards what I hope will be real, practical pathways to peace, can the Minister tell us what the latest updates are on the various initiatives—as I myself knew about during my time at the Foreign Office—whether through the African Union, the Arab League or IGAD? I would welcome an update. We know the important role that regional partners can play and the influences they bring. The Minister has already given valuable updates on the engagement he has conducted, but what engagement have we had with key partners such as Egypt, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates?

In all these areas and all this diplomacy, at times we need to be inclusive, but we also need to be constructive. In my experience, however, at times we must be discreet, because that unlocks the potential solution.

The role of the United Nations is important, as we have heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, and the Minister. Can he update us, as the penholder, on what more can be done beyond the Human Rights Council fact-finding mission and whether we can convene a meeting based on some of the recommendations from that report?

What of the important role of the United States? Was Sudan on the agenda in the recent discussions the Foreign Secretary had with Secretary of State Blinken, and in the discussions that are rightly taking place on resolving conflicts in Gaza and Ukraine? As has been said repeatedly, let us also not forget Sudan.

Inclusivity of approach is important. We have heard about the importance of civil society. I share with the Minister a plea that was hard in the making, as my noble friend Baroness Anelay knows all too well: we need women mediators at the table—not at the end or in another room; we need women mediators at the start. Whether we are dealing with issues of accountability around conflict-related sexual violence, or using and leveraging our experience, we have the structures in place within the UN and we have women who bring valuable experience. We must leverage that in resolving these issues. Conflicts are resolved, and peace agreements last longer, when women are involved at the start.

Accountability cannot be forgotten in all this. The ICC’s role is key. What engagement have we had with the ICC on setting up the mechanisms now to ensure that the solutions can be provided tomorrow?

The Minister informed us that the Government are looking at appointing special representatives. I look forward to their continuing the important work we started on preventing sexual violence in conflict, but let me mention one practical example. We saw mobile courts work well with partners such as Transparency International to bring justice locally and ensure that perpetrators are held to account. That practical measure is working in the DRC, and I hope it can be deployed in Sudan.

We need inclusive responses, transparent ways of working and discreet diplomacy when required. This is not an issue just for Sudan or the region; it has global implications for migration, the movement of people, accountability and the rules-based order system. I ask the Minister to continuously update your Lordships’ House on our efforts to ensure that this human catastrophe can be brought to an end.

Long-Term Strategic Challenges Posed by China

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I begin by thanking all noble Lords for their contributions. As ever, it has been a fascinating insight, with valuable and experienced contributions. Yes, there are many challenges posed to His Majesty’s Government. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Howe for introducing this debate, initiated by the Government, reflecting on the commitment, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, acknowledged, that the Leader of the House of Lords—my noble friend Lord True—gave.

I will begin by saying right at the outset that the Government share the concerns about many of the challenges posed by China under the Chinese Communist Party. My remarks today will probably reflect some of the sentiments and specifics raised. I listened very carefully, as I always do, to the contributions of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, which showed a deep insight and really threw down a challenge to the Government. While I may not satisfy all his questions, I hope during my contribution I will be able to at least give some granular detail on some of the steps the Government have been taking.

There was a range of contributions, and I am sure that the noble Lords, Lord Coaker and Lord Collins, would acknowledge that the challenge in any relationship is immense, but the challenge in our relationship with China is complex. They both—indeed, most noble Lords, if not all—acknowledged that China is an important partner on the world stage, and we cannot ignore what China does and says and its influence around the world, which I will come on to.

Equally, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, who said that we must stand up and that we shall not concede or give way. At one point I felt that he was going into the famous football chant “We shall not be moved”, but he did not quite go into the depth of that particular chant. I agree with him, and I am sure that, as all noble Lords have indicated, when we look at China, we look at the complexity. The UK is taking on the systematic challenge of that relationship. That of course means protecting our national security, which the noble Lord, Lord Collins, specifically mentioned. It means working with our allies and partners. I am Minister for the UN, and it also means that we work with China in certain respects when it comes to particular issues. Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine is an example. We are engaging with China in that respect.

I agree with my noble friend Lord Balfe that we must keep communication channels open, even in the most testing of times. We are probably going through some of the most testing times in my time as a Minister. It is important that we keep discussion channels and sometimes back channels. I joked with my noble friend Lord Howe, who said that the best thing for a diplomat is to be discreet and to open back channels, which means you often say little; that would leave me with little to say at the Dispatch Box. Nevertheless, it is important that those channels remain open.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, spoke about the continuity of the relationship and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, focused on ensuring that we make it clear to China that security is our responsibility and that China’s stated ambitions and coercive policies challenge our interests, security and values. To the noble Lord, Lord Alton, the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, who is not here, and the other parliamentarians who have been sanctioned by China—the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, asked about this—we say that it is not acceptable to directly challenge parliamentarians who use this Chamber and the other place. When we sanction, we do so under the rule of law so that anyone who is sanctioned has the ability to appeal. Can China say that? No, it cannot. We stand with those parliamentarians. I hope the noble Lord will agree that the Government have sought through direct engagement and through the FCDO to meet the challenges and concerns not just of parliamentarians but of others who have been sanctioned.

The first duty of any Government is to keep their country safe. Where tensions arise with other objectives on China, we will always put national security first. That is why, in answering some of the specifics on the actions the Government have taken, the new powers in the National Security Act make the UK a harder target for states—not just China—that seek to conduct hostile acts against the UK. This includes the foreign interference in our political system that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to, espionage, sabotage and acts that endanger life.

We will continue to strengthen ourselves at home, particularly our economic security, democratic freedom, critical national infrastructure and supply chains. I will expand on that in a moment. We will also invest in cybersecurity and increase protections for academic freedom and university research. It is clear that with some of the global challenges—artificial intelligence is one, as the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, among others, acknowledged—it is important to understand that there is a role. Even the great Lady Ahmad said to me a couple of days ago how forward China was in its planning when it came to artificial intelligence. Our actions should not be words alone. We need to act decisively. Many countries around the world will look to us for support.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, also talked about our engagement with China. On trade issues, when my noble friend Lord Johnson visited he used opportunities, particularly those with the media, to speak against the procedures and the erosion of rights in China, and particularly in Hong Kong, and to address those key concerns. As we balance our relationship with China, it is important that we call these issues out.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, also talked about the relationship with the DPRK in relation to the Human Rights Council, as did my noble friend Lord Swire. The UK was pleased to co-sponsor the resolution on DPRK human rights adopted at the Human Rights Council on 4 April. We continue to call on the DPRK to engage constructively. I note the point about returnees. I will seek to get more detail on that and write to the noble Lord in that respect.

However, any attempt by a foreign power to intimidate, harass or harm individuals, or indeed communities in the UK, will not be tolerated. That is an insidious threat to our democracy and fundamental human rights. As the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, said, it is about our value system.

Yes, China has a great influence, and my noble friend Lord Howell talked about its influence on the Commonwealth—I will come on to that in a moment— and other parts of the developing world, as the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, mentioned. I share the noble Lord’s ambition about 0.7%, and I have been clear at this Dispatch Box that cutting development support has not been as effective in terms of our approach. But, as my noble friends Lord Hannan and Lord Swire said, it is not just about calling out deficiencies in our own support; as my noble friend Lord Swire said, we need to fill the space. There has to be more co-operation and joint working, and we need to work not just on our own and on a bilateral basis but with other key partners as well.

On human rights, as the UK’s Human Rights Minister I share the concerns that were raised. People across China face widespread restrictions and violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms, including severe constraints on media freedom and freedom of religion or belief, as well as the repression of culture and community, be that in Tibet or elsewhere, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and my noble friend Lord Hannan mentioned. I was fascinated when my noble friend talked about the algorithm of diplomacy and how things are watched in a specific way. I must say that, although I accept that we live in a different world to that of 1945, the UK remains an influential player. Notwithstanding the war in Ukraine and the current crisis in the Middle East, I was proud of the strength of our diplomacy and advocacy and that we continued to build that coalition against China when it came to the abuse of human rights—and that is not without lobbying on its part. We achieved 52 countries, including ourselves, as my noble friend mentioned, and that was only yesterday. That demonstrates that we continue to focus, and it is important that we do not lose sight of these important issues.

The UK has consistently pressed China to improve its human rights record and we conduct independent visits to areas of major concern wherever possible. We support NGOs in exposing and reacting to human rights violations and use our voice on the international stage to effectively raise the reputational and diplomatic cost of human rights violations in China. We regularly raise our concerns at the highest levels with the Chinese Government quite directly, and we did so on the recent visit of my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. However, it is important that we relay those points quite firmly.

I will share one experience among many others; the power of diplomacy is not just phone calls and the advocacy we do. It is the ability to sit down, not just with your friends and partners but with those with whom we disagree, and share home truths and the reasons why the values system we stand for—the democratic freedoms we enjoy—will benefit any country that wishes to progress.

On Hong Kong, which the noble Lord, Lord Alton, my noble friend Lord Hannan, and others raised, China’s imposition of the national security law in 2020 has seen the opposition stifled and dissent criminalised, and alternative voices across Hong Kong society have been all but extinguished. Changes to electoral rules have further eroded the ability of Hong Kongers to be legitimately represented at all levels of government. The UK responded rapidly and decisively to the imposition of the rather draconian national security law. As a demonstration of our commitment to Hong Kong and its people, we opened the door through our British national (overseas) scheme. There were 176,000 applications.

Noble Lords also rightly mentioned the detention of Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong. He has stood up bravely for freedom and democracy, and I assure the noble Lord, Lord Alton, that we continue to raise this directly with Chinese and Hong Kong authorities and press for consular access in this respect.

The UK plays a leading role in co-ordinating an international response to human rights violations, and I alluded to the strength of working with partners. However, what is important, for example in the situation with the Uighurs, is that we need to broaden those alliances. If I may, I declare an interest as a Muslim, and this is the biggest internment of Muslims anywhere in the world. We need more of the Islamic world to stand up and speak out. I assure noble Lords that we are working on that, because it is important that we bring that focus through the strength of the relationships we have.

In his thoughtful response and reflections, the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, talked about Taiwan, as did the noble Lord, Lord Purvis. Many other noble Lords touched, rightly, on that relationship. The UK’s position on Taiwan has not changed: we do not support any unilateral attempts to change the status quo. The UK believes the issue must be settled by the people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait, without the threat or use of force or coercion. But we must be vigilant and that is why AUKUS is important.

We are disturbed by reports of coercion and intimidation in the South China Sea. We oppose any action which changes the facts on the ground, raises tension and hinders the chances of peaceful settlement of the disputes. My noble friend referred particularly to some of our maritime assets and the work done by the incredible people in our Armed Forces and the Ministry of Defence. The UK is committed to international law, the primacy of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, and to freedom of navigation and overflight. We oppose any action that brings those into dispute, and miscalculations should not be underestimated.

Several noble Lords referred to China and Russia. I will come on to the specifics but, to respond to the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, there is a lot going in the world at the moment and one recent development was the BRICS summit, including the BRICS-plus. When you look down the list, you see the UAE, Egypt, Ethiopia, Argentina and Iran—so the list is an interesting one. The noble Lord talked about the dollar denomination; prior to becoming a Minister, I was in financial services, in banking, and we recently saw the first rupee-denominated payment for oil from the UAE. These things should not be underestimated. There is a real challenge to some of the structures and systems that we are used to operating in.

I am glad, though, that many of the contributions also recognised the importance of engaging directly with China in our national interest—and we will, on many of the issues mentioned, including AI, which I have already alluded to. Equally, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said at Mansion House, disengaging with China

“would be a betrayal of our national interest and a wilful misunderstanding of the modern world”.

Meeting the challenge of climate change, as several noble Lords said, cannot be achieved without engaging with China in the objectives we have.

I assure noble Lords that we align our efforts, as there is a need for what I would term mature diplomacy between two permanent members of the UN Security Council. We also align with the approaches of many of our closest allies, including those in Europe, the US, Australia, Canada and Japan. The Government are also investing in the expertise and capability to respond to the challenges China poses. We have committed to investing in the skills and knowledge of UK officials, giving them the tools to better understand China in responding to the systematic challenges that we face specifically from it. That includes, as the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, will be pleased to hear, investing specifically in Mandarin speakers at the Foreign Office.

I turn to some issues on the China strategy implementation, which the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, focused on. The National Security Secretariat within the Cabinet Office co-ordinates the implementation of our approach to China across government. This gives us a clear view of China’s activities and allows the Government to prioritise our work in this respect. To touch on a few issues of specific support, the Government have published, for example, overseas business risk guidance in relation to China to help UK firms negotiate the ethical, legal and commercial questions they may meet as they do business in China. The Government have also committed to investing in the skills and knowledge of UK officials. We are looking at curriculum events and language, including a cross-government Mandarin offer, which is expected to train hundreds of civil servants this year alone.

The noble and gallant Lord will be interested to know that we are enhancing our economic security levers in this respect, which will enable the UK to deal with confidence with some of the challenges that China poses. The UK has taken robust action: we have announced the application of military end-use controls to China, as part of our revised export control regime; we have launched the National Security and Investment Act, giving the Government new powers to intervene in acquisitions where we have national security concerns; and we have strengthened the visa screening of Chinese academics and researchers in sensitive areas of research.

As my noble friend Lord Howell rightly said, we need to work with China, as the world’s largest investor in sustainable energy and the largest carbon emitter, as well. Engaging with China on climate change can only have a positive effect. China is responsible for over half the global demand for coal and currently operates 58% of its power from coal. We are pushing China to phase out its coal use and to increase ambition on its NDCs, so that its emissions peak earlier and it reduces them more quickly.

Several noble Lords, including the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, referred to the recent comments by MI5. The IRR made clear the position that China presents a defining challenge to the United Kingdom. The Government are working to embed an approach to future engagement with China that is in the national interest. In this regard, I am sure the noble and gallant Lord will acknowledge that it is important that we work with our key allies—namely, the Five Eyes—and we are doing exactly that.

I will turn to some of the other key points. There were a number of questions, particularly from the noble Lord, Lord Alton. If I may, I will write to him. On Chinese influence across the Commonwealth, which my noble friends Lord Howell and Lord Swire focused on, it is quite startling. In total, China has invested £685 billion in Africa, the largest recent recipients including Ghana and South Africa. I recall during the last Australian election the Chinese Foreign Minister travelling to the Pacific Islands, particularly the Solomon Islands, and agreeing security guarantees and support. Therefore, I agree with many noble Lords’ assessment that we need to fill the gap. There is no point just calling it out. I have heard it directly: “That’s great Minister; what’s the offer?” We need to stand by, focus and ensure we meet that challenge.

We are taking steps within the Commonwealth. My noble friend Lord Howell will know how passionate I am about the Commonwealth portfolio—so much so that I was given it back a few months ago. In all seriousness, it presents a huge opportunity for what more we can do working with key partners, particularly those emerging as economic powers within the Commonwealth family.

Tackling threats to higher education was raised. We have introduced a series of measures that will continue to tackle threats to higher education, including through the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023. The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, is absolutely correct that my responsibilities do not extend to the Department for Education, but I will come back to her on her specific question. On the Confucius Institutes, I listened very carefully to her contribution, but I am sure she recognises that, as other noble Lords mentioned, there are concerns about interference in our higher education sector. We are taking action to remove government funding from Confucius Institutes in the UK, but currently judge that it would be disproportionate to ban them. This needs careful steps forward. Like any international body operating in the UK, the institutes need to operate transparently and within the law. The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, mentioned a number of other such areas as well.

On supply chains, I will clarify and give some detail on the questions raised by the noble and gallant Lord. We are taking action to protect our supply chains, in the semiconductor strategy of May 2023 and the critical minerals strategy of July 2023, and we will shortly publish the UK supply and import strategy to support specific government and business action to strengthen our resilience in critical supply chains. I will of course share that with noble Lords.

On the BRI forum, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, my noble friends Lord Hannan and Lord Swire, and others that, had we not been in the current crisis, everyone would be talking about the meeting taking place between the Presidents of China and of Russia. Of course, the UN Secretary-General was also present in Beijing. We need to ensure that, while there are crises on the world stage, we are not distracted from some of the key objectives we have set ourselves.

China poses a defining challenge for the United Kingdom and many countries around the world, including our key Five Eyes partners, as well as in every area of government policy and everyday life in Britain. That is why the Government set out in the integrated review refresh, and why my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary explained in his Mansion House speech earlier this year, how we will protect our national security, align with our partners and engage with China where it is in our national interest to do so.

We have taken action, some of which I have outlined, including new powers under different legislation. We will align and deepen our co-operation with core allies to influence China and sustain pressure by broadening the range of countries we are speaking to. Also, importantly, we will engage with Beijing on key global issues, as I outlined, including the war in Ukraine. We will continue to press China to join the UK in pushing Mr Putin to cease hostilities and withdraw his forces from Ukraine.

Noble Lords have made wide-ranging contributions and in the time available, I have not been able to answer a number of questions, so, as I said, I will come back in the usual way, through a letter. The Government value and appreciate the input and insights we have heard today, and the manner in which they were presented. In defining our relationship with countries such as China going forward, it is right that this Government—any Government—be challenged directly to share the detail, in order to see how we balance what is a complex but important relationship.

Motion agreed.