Asylum

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Green of Deddington]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the scope for those currently claiming asylum in other European Union member states subsequently to move on to the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK operates rigorous border controls to prevent illegal migration. The Government have already introduced tough new measures and are negotiating with the European Union further to prevent the abuse of free movement rights by EU citizens. We can also refuse EU nationals at the border if we consider that they present a genuine threat to society.

[Lord Green of Deddington (CB)]

I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. Will he confirm that EU directives require that protection be granted not just for those in fear of persecution but also where there is a,

“serious … threat … of indiscriminate violence”,

to a civilian due to “armed conflict”?

Does he therefore agree that member states will be obliged to grant protection to most of those now fleeing from the terrible events in Syria as well as many from Iraq, Libya, Yemen and some countries in Africa? Given that the EU border controls have now almost collapsed, the numbers could be considerable. Finally, as most of those concerned will later become EU citizens, will the Government, in this new situation, now seek to require work permits from EU citizens migrating to Britain so as to reduce the numbers overall?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the EU directives, like the refugee convention and UK national policy, are based on individual need rather than nationality. That need may, as the noble Lord said, arise from indiscriminate violence, but that is again based on an assessment of the risks to the individual claimant. Briefly, on his other points, as noble Lords are aware, this Government have already introduced a series of tough domestic measures to restrict access to benefits for EU jobseekers, to punish the abuse of free movement rights on which we are leading the way in Europe. The Government maintain that free movement is an important principle of the EU, but that it is not an unqualified right and must be grounded in freedom to take up work.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the question was about the secondary movement of people claiming asylum in another EU member state, so I do not understand the answer, which was about EU nationals and free movement of people who have EU citizenship. Can the Minister confirm that the only possibility for secondary movement of asylum seekers is a small one if, under the Dublin rules, they have a family connection to someone who is already a refugee here? Otherwise, someone can move only if they have become fully settled in another member state and some years later acquire EU citizenship. There is little evidence of substantial such movement. Is this not just an example of how Eurosceptics are trying to confuse the issue by conflating EU free movement of EU nationals with the unfree movement of non-EU asylum seekers, with which the Government, unfortunately, seem to be colluding?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government adopt responsible measures and have taken a responsible attitude in addressing the issue of the migration crisis across Europe. On the noble Baroness’s assessment of the Dublin convention, she is correct: that does stand.

[Earl Attlee (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister remain convinced that we should keep out of the Schengen area?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Evidence suggests that that was a very sensible thing to do.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, Save the Children is calling on all EU member states to adopt an excellent five-point plan which would guarantee the safety of refugees as well as deal with the root causes of the problems in Syria. Will the Minister meet with Save the Children to discuss this plan and see how it can be further adopted in all member states?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness raises an important point. As she is aware, under the chairmanship of the Home Secretary and the Communities Secretary, a new group of senior government Ministers has been set up which also includes local authorities. The group will also meet those who are directly involved in dealing with refugees.

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[Baroness Afshar]

My Lords, is there any awareness of cause and effect in this process as to why all these people are coming out? Which countries have contributed to this problem? Is there a moral duty to think about what has caused this process? The people who come are the best, and they serve the countries to which they go to the best of their ability. I have done so and I am sure that many others might do so also.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I recognise the point that the noble Baroness makes, and that is why we have heard both the Prime Minister and President Obama say only yesterday that we must deal with the cause of the issue. However, in terms of moral duty and obligations, Britain has shown that it has a comprehensive view of dealing with this issue, not least by the £1 billion it has thus far given for assistance to those refugees in most desperate need around the Syrian borders.

[Lord Higgins]

I apologise for not giving way to the noble Baroness, who I did not see intervening. Does my noble friend agree that the Government should consult urgently with the German Government to establish precisely which documents, passports and so on being issued by the Germans to those accepted as refugees into Germany will entitle them to travel elsewhere in the European Union and the UK? Will these documents be treated as if they were normal German passports?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises an important point. Let me assure him that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary raised these very issues on Monday at a council meeting convened with all European partners. We have made our position clear that the Dublin convention and the rules surrounding it will apply, and continue to apply, to all Syrian refugees—indeed, to all refugees who enter the European Union. They must claim asylum at their first port of entry, and normal rules will apply.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, does the Minister think that the current European regulations are working, and indeed workable, in the face of the sheer volume of people who are seeking to migrate?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate again raises an important issue. Evidence suggests that we need to keep reviewing the situation regularly across Europe, and that is why Britain has taken a lead in ensuring that we play our role in welcoming, as we will do very shortly, an additional number of Syrian refugees to the United Kingdom, but directly from those areas and countries that are picking up the biggest impact of the current crisis in Syria—Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey. We are working closely with both our EU partners and those countries neighbouring Syria.