Healthier Together Programme (Greater Manchester)

Debate between Lisa Nandy and Kate Green

Tuesday 22nd July 2014 Westminster Hall

[Kate Green]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and I am pleased to see that the hon. Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley) is also present this afternoon. The ripple effect of the consultation, on hospitals in neighbouring areas and indeed—as I will go on to talk about—on the wider north-west and northern region of the country is quite significant in one reading of what is going on.

It is true that the pressures of rising demand on the NHS are well recognised, as are the cost constraints on social care provision. However, my constituents in Trafford were told all that three or four years ago, and we went through our change programme. We feel that we have been here before and, for us, this is groundhog day and a bit worse than that. We underwent the consultation “A New Health Deal for Trafford”, which took place in 2012 and culminated in the downgrading of Trafford general hospital. Looking at how the current consultation has been launched, I am concerned that a number of lessons that were learned from that Trafford process are being totally ignored.

I say clearly that I am not against sensible reconfiguration of acute services. I am very much in favour of concentrating expertise and specialisms in a small number of expert sites. I am entirely in favour of as much provision as possible being pushed into the community to front-line, preventive, community-based care, and of keeping people at home to receive that care for as long as possible.

However, if this is a consultation about the provision of integrated community-based care, it is not possible to go down the road of consulting about that provision and withdrawing services in acute settings before we are clear what the landscape and the reality of that community provision is. Nor is it possible to go down the route of suggesting that some acute services might be rationalised or closed when existing acute services are under so much pressure already. In particular—I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane) will talk about this issue too—one consequence of the downgrade of Trafford general hospital’s accident and emergency provision is that during the past nine months the waiting times and queues at Wythenshawe hospital have been significant, with little sign yet that they will be reduced.

In addition, I point out that we have some real uncertainty. My hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Broughton mentioned the uncertainty that exists around trauma services, maternity services and so on, but we also have uncertainties in Trafford in relation to some of the primary provision that will be in place. We know that the NHS local team and the clinical commissioning group envisage a two-hub model of primary care and community-based care for our borough. The provision in the south is largely established, but in the north—including in my constituency, where we have some of the worst health outcomes in the borough—we are still completely unsure what sort of hub will be put in place, as the NHS local team and NHS England are quite unable to tell us what the funding for that kind of hub model will be.

I know that the Secretary of State for Health is aware of that particular situation and I am grateful to him and his office for what they are doing to try to unscramble it, but from the point of view of my constituents the idea that they will be consulted on a major reconfiguration, either of primary care or of acute services, does not inspire their confidence, because currently they simply see deficiencies in those services and particularly because they believe that their voice counts for little when it comes to the decision that will ultimately be taken.

Not only is there pressure in the system, but the NHS seems to make some really perverse decisions as it goes along, because of its rather hand-to-mouth approach to planning this kind of reconfiguration and strategic change. When the decision was taken to downgrade the A and E services at Trafford general hospital, the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale West (Mr Brady) and the late Paul Goggins, my good friend and former colleague, managed between them to secure around £11 million of new investment in Wythenshawe hospital to provide for the extra capacity that it would need. We are now unclear, of course, about what will happen with that £11 million of investment; it would be good if the Minister could put it on the record today that it will continue. Given that the hospital cannot envisage even its short to medium-term future, that is a worrying situation.

We saw something similar in Trafford, when investment of around £300 million in the intensive care unit was pretty well written off two years later when the new health deal for Trafford was implemented and the ICU was closed down. That may have been the right decision, but it was certainly a waste of money if investment was being poured into a hospital just two or three years before the whole status of that hospital was changed.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, and I apologise for being late for the start of this debate, Mrs Riordan.

Does my hon. Friend agree that part of the problem with the process is that it does not take into account the particular needs, circumstances and history of our individual communities? For example, in Wigan we have invested in a number of our specialist services. However, we are a big borough, we have our own particular health challenges and we have real transport issues as well, which are different from those affecting other areas of Greater Manchester. Quite simply, a centrally driven top-down process that lacks any kind of democracy whatever, as far as I can make out, is not capable of delivering the sort of services that we need in our areas.

[Kate Green]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, and the issue about democracy that she raises is one that we are all particularly concerned about.

NHS Reorganisation

Debate between Lisa Nandy and Kate Green

Wednesday 17th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

Let me begin by wishing the hon. Member for Winchester (Mr Brine) and his partner well for the pending new arrival. I am sure that they will receive an excellent service in their local NHS hospital, and that the whole House wishes them the very best.

I should like to use this opportunity to raise a few of the concerns that have been brought to my attention by people in my constituency. Many do not fully understand how the new proposals will work to deliver the outcomes we hope for, and I hope that the Minister can answer for them this afternoon. Essentially, people are anxious that where they live and who they are will begin to determine the level and quality of their care.

I am sure we all agree that consistency and guarantees of standards must be an integral part of the operation model that the Government seek to introduce. That is especially important in relation to health outcomes for the poorest and most vulnerable. There is a high level of health inequalities in my constituency. The people who live in the poorest wards suffer much worse health outcomes than those in the better-off wards in the south of the borough of Trafford. The local authority was quite slow to recognise that, so how will health inequalities receive strategic attention in the proposed new structures?

What will be the role of the public health director, who will be placed within the local authority? I am keen to know how that public health role in the local authority will devolve and relate to those at the sharp end in all health settings—those who provide front-line care. I hope that the Minister can fully explain that in his winding-up speech so that my constituents can be clear about it.

My constituents and I are concerned about how the wider drivers of health inequalities—income, education, employment and so on—will be addressed in the new structure, particularly when so many national policies seem to be taking us in the opposite direction, as my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) pointed out earlier.

[Lisa Nandy]

Does my hon. Friend agree that as well as the vast inequalities in life expectancy, the lingering issue of care for those who live longer and longer with chronic illnesses needs to be addressed? Those people are suffering now. Does she agree that it is an absolute disgrace that the Government have decided to tinker with the structures rather than put in urgent investment to help those people, including people in my constituency of Wigan?

[Kate Green]

Labour Members want to know whether the money spent on the restructuring of front-line care in our communities is the best use of that money. As the Health Secretary himself pointed out, we continue to have poor health outcomes and standards compared with our European neighbours, so why does it make sense to put more money into reorganisation and less directly into front-line care? I look forward to hearing what the Minister says about that.

The second issue that I want to address involves patient voice. That, too, has been raised in my constituency. A particular concern of mine is to ensure that the poorest and most vulnerable are heard. I am concerned about the lack of voice of those who do not have the sharp elbows and the articulacy to speak up for themselves to secure the best for themselves and their families. We know that that is the fate of many in our poorer communities, and especially of those with mental health problems.

I have been told a number of times in my constituency, including by GPs, that GPs are not particularly expert in, or equipped to deal with, mental health needs. How will those patients’ needs be identified, recognised and responded to in the new structure? What help will be available to enable patients to articulate such needs? There is uncertainty in my constituency on the future structure. How will patient voice, choice and opinion feed in to the new model?

The Trafford patient LINk—local involvement network—service is uncertain about its future role and status. I very much hope that Ministers will be able to give us more information about how we will get a clear opportunity for advocacy, so that every patient’s voice can be properly heard, and for proper support for patients who are perhaps less able to articulate their needs and secure services for themselves.

I am concerned also because I know—not just from my constituency, but from my long experience of supporting and working with vulnerable families—that different values pertain among different doctors and practitioners. I am particularly concerned, for example, for the young woman who may present herself to a GP who does not feel it appropriate to offer her advice on contraception or abortion. How can those minimum standards be protected, so that everybody—wherever they live, whoever their doctor is and whatever the structure is—knows that they will be guaranteed the care that they need.

Thirdly, I would like to raise with Ministers the issues that have been raised with me by health practitioners and professionals—and which have been highlighted in this afternoon’s debate—relating to GPs’ ability and willingness to take on the management aspects of their commissioning role. Many GPs have said to me—perhaps the Minister will be able to reassure them this afternoon—that what they see tanking towards them is a heavy burden of management, albeit without the additional resource with which to manage it. Many GPs have said to me that they have not really had the training—they lack the expertise—to be health managers as well as good-quality health practitioners and providers of front-line health care. I am interested to know whether Ministers have plans for training GPs and developing those skills and abilities in GP practices, or whether, as many of us on the Opposition Benches fear, the proposal will in fact be used as an opportunity to privatise that management function. If that is the case—this is not an ideological point, but an efficiency point—I shall be keen to know what financial model Ministers expect to operate if a substantial amount or even a proportion of the money that would otherwise be held in GP practices will go to fund the profits of private providers.

Those are the issues being raised with me in my constituency. They are issues that I am afraid I do not feel equipped to answer, because I do not fully understand how the new structures will work well in practice and, in particular, how they will work well for the poorest.

In concluding, I would like to highlight a point that has been made by a number of my hon. Friends this afternoon. The injection of extra uncertainty and disruption into our national health service at this time is further—and considerably—stretching our capacity to deliver excellent front-line care. I would urge Ministers to listen to the many GPs who have said to me—and who I am sure are saying to them—that what is proposed represents an element of change and disruption that they cannot yet see the benefits of. What they can see is that there is considerable uncertainty in the way that they are now working. There is certainly concern in my primary care trust. I hope that Ministers can offer some reassurance on that point, because at the moment there is considerable instability, and that cannot be good for any patient outcomes.