Outcome of the EU Referendum

Liam Byrne Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I meant what I said about collective responsibility. It was suspended for this campaign, but it has now come back into place. Members of the Government and the Cabinet are of one view, which must be that we deliver the country’s will to exit the European Union, although the key decisions for that will be taken by the next Prime Minister. On arrangements for the leadership election in the Conservative party, all sorts of bodies—the 22, the party board, and all the rest of it—will make decisions. I am your servant, as it were. I want to ensure stability and continuity in the Government of this country and that we take the necessary steps to stabilise things. I know that the right thing to do is to hand over to a new team and new leader to take those issues forward.

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

I welcome the emphasis that the Prime Minister puts on coming back together as a community. There are people now living in fear in the way the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) described. It is down to us to put the decency back into our democracy. Does the Prime Minister understand the rage that many feel at what appear to be mistruths told about the virtues of coming out of the European Union, such as an extra £350 million a week for the national health service? May I press the Prime Minister on the answer he gave to my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper)? We are about to go into some of the most dangerous waters this country has ever entered. It would be strange if we in this House carried on with arrangements as if business was going on as usual. Transparency is the best guarantee against any more mistruths. Surely our parliamentary arrangements must be strengthened to provide oversight of the right arrangements for leaving the European Union?

[The Prime Minister]

First, the right hon. Gentleman is right that we need to, as he put it, get the decency into our democracy. He is right that we must stamp out hatred and intolerance, but I do not believe we need to refight the referendum campaign. I will reflect on what he says and on what the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) said. There is a very big task for Government and Parliament to set out and examine, in an objective and fact-based way, the alternative models for leaving the European Union: what are the advantages, what are the disadvantages? This House has a big role in that. Whether it needs a new Joint Committee or whether it suits the existing Select Committees, I am very happy to receive advice and ideas from hon. Members. But certainly this House should play a proper role in informing the public and making sure we get the decision right.

European Council

Liam Byrne Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We are having good discussions, but, frankly, we still need NATO to be able to do more. I would like NATO ships to be able to spend more time in Turkish territorial waters, working with the Turkish coastguard on turning back boats, because it is stopping that trade that will actually undermine the people-smuggling gangs.

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

May I bring the Prime Minister back to the issue of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children in Calais? He is right to say that those children can apply to join parents here, but I understand that, of the 150 take charge requests issued by the French Government, not one has been agreed yet by the British Government. Will the Prime Minister undertake to look at that and bring forward proposals to get the process working before any more children suffer any longer?

[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to look at this. I discussed it with the French President. The rules are clear: if someone has direct family here, they apply for asylum and they will come here, but we need to make sure that happens.

ISIL in Syria

Liam Byrne Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I can certainly confirm that. We are the second largest bilateral donor in the world, after America, and we will keep that up, not least with the vital conference that we are co-chairing in London next year, when we will bring together the whole world to ensure that we fill the gap in the funding that is available.

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Prime Minister, who is presenting his case well. Had he come to the House and asked for a very narrow licence to take out ISIL’s external planning capability, I think that would have commanded widespread consent, but he is asking for a wider authority. I want to draw him on the difference between Iraq and Syria. In Iraq there are ground forces in place, but in Syria there are not. I invite him to say a little more at the very least about what ground forces he envisages joining us in the seizure of Raqqa.

[The Prime Minister]

Let me try to answer that as directly as possible, because it goes to the nub of the difficulty of this case. I do not think that we can separate the task of taking out the command and control of Daesh’s operations against the UK, France, Belgium and elsewhere from the task of degrading and destroying the so-called caliphate that it has created; the two are intricately linked. Indeed, as I argued before the House last week, as long as the so-called caliphate exists, it is a threat to us, not least because it is radicalising Muslims from around the world who are going to fight for that organisation and potentially then return to attack us.

On the right hon. Gentleman’s second question about ground troops, as I have explained, there are three parts to the argument. First, we must not underestimate the things we can do without ground troops. Secondly, although the ground troops that are there are not ideal and there are not as many of them as we would like, they are people we are working with and who we can work with more. Thirdly, the real plan is that as we get a transitional Government in Syria that can represent all the Syrian people, there will be more ground troops for us to work with to defeat Daesh and the caliphate, which will keep our country safe. I know that will take a long time and that it will be complex, but that is the strategy, and we need to start with the first step, which is going after these terrorists today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton). She is right that this is a serious debate. It is one I have considered, too, and I am sorry, but I have come to a different conclusion from her.

I speak against this motion, and I speak with a great sense of frustration. I am frustrated because I agree with the Prime Minister that we are at war; we are under attack, and we face an enemy the like of which we have never faced before. We are fighting against shadowy networks and nebulous states. Today’s debate is about the theatre of Syria, but we all know there are other theatres. We know there is conflict that we may need to come to in Yemen, on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, in the Khorasan region, in Libya and in parts of Nigeria. The enemy we are debating tonight is Daesh, but we all know there are other enemies. We know there is the core of al-Qaeda still present somewhere around Afghanistan and Pakistan. We know there is al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. We know there is the Khorasan group at work against us. We know there is Jabhat al-Nusra in Iraq, and its allies.

What this reveals to us is that this will be a long march. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr Godsiff) said, we must maintain solidarity and unity of purpose at home for what will be a very long fight. That is why we cannot afford in this House to put forward strategies that we think carry too great a risk of failure, as I am afraid the Government strategy does.

I was grateful to hear the Prime Minister put such emphasis on this being a joint struggle for both western and Islamic freedom. We can see that in the refugee camps of northern Iraq. We know that Daesh has acquired the capability to plan attacks here in Europe. That is why what I wanted today was sustained, short-term action to take out that external planning capability of ISIS, whether that needs air cover or boots on the ground. In the longer term, like the Chair of the Defence Committee, I want to see an overwhelming coalition brought to bear, to smash Daesh into history. That needs Vienna first, not Vienna second.

We dare not risk defeat. That would hand our enemies a propaganda victory that we would hear about for years to come. However, victory means bringing together air cover, ground forces and politics—and, heavens above, if we cannot sustain that combination to take back Mosul, how on earth will we take back Raqqa in Syria? That is why I was disappointed that the Prime Minister was not able to specify this afternoon just what the ground forces are that will help us take back Raqqa under the air cover of the RAF. That is the difference between Iraq and Syria. In Iraq, there are ground forces; in Syria, frankly, there are not. I do not want a half-hearted fight; I want a full-on fight, and we did not have a plan for that from the Government today.

Syria

Liam Byrne Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

I am very glad the Prime Minister believes we cannot bomb the ground unless there is a plan for holding the ground. I am glad he agrees we will not win unless there are more moderate Sunnis involved in forming an alternative Government-in-waiting. Without that Government-in-waiting, we risk the ground being ungoverned. What assurances can he give us that there are moderate Sunni leaders, particularly in Mosul and Raqqa? The truth is that the peshmerga, the Iraqi security forces and the Free Syrian Army will find it difficult to take those cities. If the political leaders are there, will he tell us who they are?

[The Prime Minister]

First of all, the right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say how important it is to have those ground forces. I pay tribute to what the peshmerga have been able to achieve with American, British and German support. It is also important to recognise what the Iraqi security forces have achieved and how we have rolled back a large extent of the so-called caliphate in Iraq. Syrian moderate forces will suffer further attrition unless we support them. There are 70,000 now. There will be more if we demonstrate our support for them financially, as we do already, and with equipment, as we do already; and, frankly, if we take the fight to ISIL, who are an enormous threat to them. This is partly within our powers. In terms of the people who lead these organisations, whether it is the Kurdish regional authority or the Free Syrian Army, they are all people we are in contact with and are working with. If the argument is being made that there are not enough of them, yes, I agree. But I do not think that that is an argument for inaction; it is an argument helping them and building them up.