Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (Eighth sitting)

Debate between Lord Brennan of Canton and Brandon Lewis

Thursday 25th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Gentleman is choosing to ignore the fact that since then there has been a general election, an entirely new Parliament and a Conservative Government, which is a good thing for our country. In 2015 the Prime Minister made it very clear at the Dispatch Box in this very House during Prime Minister’s Question Time that he felt it was time to review Sunday trading laws on the basis that they are outdated and were passed pre-internet.

Devolving the powers will enable local leaders, who are locally accountable, to decide for themselves what the right approach is to extending Sunday trading hours, reflecting local preferences, shopping habits and local economic conditions. It will provide consumers, businesses and shop workers with greater choice, opportunity and convenience. It will empower local leaders to support bricks and mortar shops in their local high streets and town centres, helping them to compete with the internet retailers that operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week and deliver on Sundays, too.

[Kevin Brennan]

As I understand it, the Minister’s explanation for the Prime Minister’s damascene conversion between April and June is that he discovered the internet. Is that correct?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Gentleman is stretching it a little far to make a joke. If he looks back at Prime Minister’s questions, he will find that, as I outlined, the Prime Minister made the point that it was right to review Sunday trading laws in light of the fact that the current rules date from before the internet existed. I was very clear about that.

The change will also ensure that we get a bigger opportunity to drive competition and productivity, reducing prices and improving convenience for consumers. I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman does not appreciate that we have a Prime Minister who cares about our economy and local communities having not only power, but local choice. We want to support our towns and cities to create jobs and have greater prosperity and to enable them to compete for lucrative international tourism, too. Larger shops opening for longer can benefit smaller shops, food establishments and tourism attractions by bringing footfall in. The larger shops draw footfall into our town centres and having them open is good for our town centres.

[Brandon Lewis]

I outlined the logic behind what we are doing earlier today. The hon. Lady can also have a look at the Government response to the consultation, which is clear on these matters. We are determined to ensure that we deliver the amendments, which provide choice for local areas on what suits their local preferences and their local economic conditions, choice for retailers to open at times that better suit the needs of their customers and choice for consumers on where and when to shop for a wider range of goods and services.

The strengthened rights for shop workers mean that the benefits of the proposals can be delivered while protecting those shop workers who do not want to work at all on a Sunday or who do not want to work longer hours on a Sunday. They deliver flexibility at a local level, which is crucial in ensuring that local communities and local economies can play to their local strengths. Whether it is by capitalising on tourist spend or catering for shoppers later in the day, the amendments will help those local economies, and by extension our UK economy, to grow. That is why the amendments represent an essential modernisation of a piece of law that in reality is no longer fit for purpose in our modern consumer world.

[Kevin Brennan]

Welcome back, Sir David. We have heard about people’s experiences. My first job was in Fine Fare, which is probably defunct now, stacking shelves and cleaning the toilets for 48.5p an hour. When I graduated to Marks and Spencer, my mother said it was the happiest day of her life. I have that grassroots experience of the retail industry, although it is not the considerable experience of the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds.

I will not detain the Committee for a long, because of the time. We have had an extensive debate. Most of the issues have been aired pretty well, and I will not repeat all the points. The Minister, the right hon. Member for Broxtowe, often chunters about us talking about process, but there is a fundamental objection about the process and the manner in which the Government have gone about introducing these things. The Prime Minister made commitments in April and suddenly changed his mind upon discovering the internet a few months later and decided that something needed to be done desperately and urgently. In the meantime, the convenience of a general election had intervened, meaning he would not have to face the electorate for another five years.

Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (Seventh sitting)

Debate between Lord Brennan of Canton and Brandon Lewis

Thursday 25th February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Kevin Brennan]

May I gently say to the Minister that a lot of give and take is always required in Committee, and we have our job to do in scrutinising the Bill and proposing Opposition amendments? The Government have their job, and the minimum requirement is to turn up prepared to discuss with the Committee every clause and every amendment that has been selected. That, if I may say so, is government 101.

It is becoming a little bit of a pattern that that preparation has not been done, and I do not know why it is so, but there have been a number of occasions where it seems as if the Minister does not have the full briefing that she should have in front of her. If I am being unkind I will withdraw that, but it is for other Members who watch our proceedings and for Committee members to decide what they think about it. However, it is the minimum requirement, if I may put it as gently as that, that we should receive a response to our amendment from the Government. We are trying to do our job and the Minister is trying to do hers. We need the preparation to be done in advance of our proceedings. On that basis, and to save further embarrassment, I will not press our amendment.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 22 read a Second time and added to the Bill.

New Clause 23

The Institute for Apprenticeships: transitional provision

“(1) Subsection (2) applies to—

(a) any standard approved and published by the Secretary of State under section A2 of the 2009 Act before the appointed day;

(b) any plan which—

(i) relates to the assessment of a person’s attainment of outcomes set out in a standard mentioned in paragraph (a), and

(ii) was approved and published by the Secretary of State for the purposes of that assessment before the appointed day.

(2) Such a standard or plan is to be treated on and after the appointed day as having been approved by the Institute for Apprenticeships under section A2A of the 2009 Act and published by it under section A2 of that Act (as amended by Schedule (The Institute for Apprenticeships)).

(3) A standard or plan within subsection (1) is to be treated for the purposes of section A2I of the 2009 Act (as inserted by Schedule (The Institute for Apprenticeships)) as having been approved by the Institute for Apprenticeship at the beginning of the appointed day.

(4) This section does not limit the provision that may be made under clause 37.

(5) In this section—

“the appointed day” means the day on which section A2A of the Apprenticeship, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 (inserted by Schedule (The Institute for Apprenticeships)) comes into force;

“the 2009 Act” means the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009.”—(Anna Soubry.)

This new Clause makes transitional provision relating to the establishment of the Institute for Apprenticeships.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 21

Extended Sunday opening hours and Sunday working

“(1) The Sunday Trading Act 1994 is amended in accordance with subsections (2) to (4).

(2) In paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 (which restricts the opening hours of large shops on Sundays), after sub-paragraph (3) insert—

“(3A) Sub-paragraph (1) does not apply in relation to the opening of a large shop during any other period on a Sunday in accordance with a consent notice published under paragraph 2A (subject to sub-paragraph (4)).”

(3) After that paragraph insert—

“Consent notices published by Sunday trading authorities

2A (1) The Sunday trading authority for an area may publish a notice (a “consent notice”) in accordance with this paragraph providing for large shops in the authority’s area to be permitted to do either or both of the following—

(a) to open on a Sunday for a continuous period of whatever number of hours is specified in the notice (in addition to the continuous period of six hours mentioned in paragraph 2(3));

(b) to open on a Sunday at specified times beginning earlier than, or ending later than, the times mentioned in paragraph 2(3).

(2) A consent notice published by a Sunday trading authority may apply in relation to the whole or any part of the authority’s area.

(3) A Sunday trading authority may, by publishing a further notice, vary or revoke a consent notice that applies in relation to its area.

(4) Before varying or revoking a consent notice under sub-paragraph (3), a Sunday trading authority must give reasonable notice to occupiers of large shops whose opening hours on Sundays would be affected by the variation or revocation.

(5) Publication of a notice under this paragraph may take whatever form the authority publishing it thinks appropriate for the purpose of bringing the notice to the attention of occupiers of large shops in the area to which the notice relates.

(6) Subject to sub-paragraph (7), the Sunday trading authority for an area is the local authority for the area.

(7) In relation to the area of Greater London, the Sunday trading authority is the Mayor of London acting on behalf of the Greater London Authority.”

(4) Accordingly—

(a) in paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 (restrictions on Sunday opening)—

(i) in sub-paragraph (1), for “and (3)” substitute “, (3) and (3A)”;

(ii) in sub-paragraph (4), for “exemption conferred by sub-paragraph (3) above does” substitute “exemptions conferred by sub-paragraphs (3) and (3A) do”;

(b) in paragraph 6 of that Schedule (duty to display notice), after “sub-paragraph (3)” insert “or (3A)”;

(c) in paragraph 8 of that Schedule (defence to an offence of contravening opening restrictions), after “paragraph 2(3)” insert “or (3A)”;

(d) in paragraph 1(a) of Schedule 3 (loading and unloading at large shops on Sunday morning: application), after “paragraph 2(3)” insert “or (3A)”.

(5) Schedule (Sunday opening hours: rights of shop workers), which contains amendments of employment legislation relating to the rights of shop workers to opt out of working on Sunday, has effect.”—(Brandon Lewis.)

This new Clause amends the Sunday Trading Act 1994, giving powers to local areas to extend Sunday trading hours for large shops (with a retail floor area greater than 280 square metres). The extended hours can apply to the whole or part of the local area. The new Clause also introduces a new Schedule to the Bill containing amendments to the Employment Rights Act 1996 and the Employment Act 2002 in relation to Sunday working.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[The Minister for Housing and Planning (Brandon Lewis)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Brandon Lewis]

I will admit that it is some years since I was working in employment law, but the laws have been around for a long time. The process by which employees can use their rights has been there and has been developing and evolving for a long time. We are developing it further by increasing employees’ rights.

Not only Conservative but Labour local authorities are keen to have these powers so that they can see their local areas grow and have that flexibility. Ultimately, I feel so passionately about this not only because of the opportunity to see high streets flourish when they can compete with online shopping, which is growing exponentially—not only can we now shop online on Sundays, but companies will deliver at any hour on a Sunday, so we need to give our high streets that chance—but because it is about devolving power, moving it from central Government to where it matters: local communities.

I shall now touch briefly on the technical amendments we have tabled. Amendment (a) to new schedule 1 amends the new schedule to remove an additional reference to a “shop worker” from section 42 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. To be clear, that is simply because, as a consequence of the changes we are making, that section will no longer apply to shop workers. Amendment (b) to new schedule 1 amends the new schedule to provide for a definition of “alcohol” in relation to Scotland by reference to the relevant legislation of the Scottish Parliament. Finally, amendment 77 amends the long title of the Bill to include reference to the Sunday trading provisions.

[Kevin Brennan]

The Minister said it might be worth while if, over the lunch break, we were to look at what he said earlier. Would he be able to provide us with a copy of his notes? Otherwise we will have to rely on what we heard. We can do that, but he did offer.

[Brandon Lewis]

I can repeat what I said for the hon. Gentleman very clearly. First, where the employer fails to comply with the notification requirement, the notice period for both opt-outs will reduce automatically: from one month to seven days at large shops, and from three months to one month at small shops. Secondly, we are enabling an employment tribunal to make a minimum award if an employer is found to have failed to notify shop workers of their opt-out rights in the context of a related successful claim. With that, I commend the new clause to the Committee.

Enterprise Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting)

Debate between Lord Brennan of Canton and Brandon Lewis

Tuesday 23rd February 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Kevin Brennan]

I thank the Minister for her response. She is right that we are probing the Government’s thinking in our amendments. Not only is that appropriate, it is our duty as Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition. It is our duty to probe forensically and in detail, and to press her and the Government if necessary, because that is how we make better law.

The Minister rather dismissed amendment 101. I remind her that the amendment simply says that the valuation office should perform according to performance standards, which I had thought would receive a better response from her. She might have said that there is a better way to achieve performance standards, rather than simply dismissing the idea. Our amendment would hold the valuation office—a public body that determines people’s taxation—to better standards for the time that it takes to respond to appeals. It would set a time limit that is not inflexible and that could be varied if there were reasonable grounds for doing so, yet she chose not to respond to the reasonable points made in our amendment.

The Minister almost suggested that the amendment simply seeks to add bureaucratic burdens to the system. It does not. It seeks to bring fairness into the system, rebalancing it away from faceless bureaucrats determining people’s taxation on the grounds of information that businesses know nothing about and back towards businesses, which are not simply composed of feckless individuals who appeal against their taxation on a whimsical basis but are struggling to get by and face significant tax bills, with no idea how they have been determined. To dismiss it, as the Minister for Housing and Planning did in reported speech via the Minister, as simply being a process by which they have a punt is very unfair to many of those businesses, which are trying to understand whether the tax determination that they face is based on real evidence—evidence to which they have no access.

[The Minister for Housing and Planning (Brandon Lewis)]

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s generosity in giving way. Does he accept that the point we are making is that currently the vast majority of appeals make no change? That highlights the fact that there are businesses out there—having been in business myself, I remember experiencing this—that specialise in going round small businesses, saying, “For no-win, no-fee, we will put in a claim.” Those spurious claims are therefore being put in, and that prevents genuine businesses putting forward genuine claims and getting heard in a quick and efficient manner. The Bill is trying to deal with that by changing the system. I hope that the hon. Gentleman accepts that we are looking to help businesses that have a genuine claim.

[Kevin Brennan]

I absolutely accept that point and the spirit in which the Minister made his intervention. My point is that that is simply one part of the imbalance in the system. The other part is the lack of information available to businesses on how their business rates are determined. That is a real issue, and we should not just dismiss it simply as inappropriate in terms of commercial confidentiality. Many business organisations believe that more information could be made available to them on how their tax is determined. That would also act as an incentive for spurious appeals not to be made.

All we are arguing with our amendments is for that balance to be in place. I remind the Ministers and all colleagues that amendment 101 would introduce performance standards for the valuation office. We want appeals to be timely and some limit to be set on the amount of time that the valuation office can take on determining those appeals, with some flexibility where it is not possible to meet that time limit for very good reasons. I reiterate that the response to the amendment did not adequately deal with those perfectly reasonable proposals. The Government have not offered another way, other than to impose a fee, of improving the service to businesses provided by the valuation office. I cannot see how our proposals are unreasonable.

As I said at the outset, and being a reasonable person, I will not press the amendment to a vote, because I am all for our trying to work through the issues together, but it is important to put on record that there is a real concern in this area, and it is important that the Government are not seen to be complacent about it. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendments made: 11, in clause 26, page 44, line 5, leave out “Consolidated Fund” and insert “appropriate fund”.

This amendment and amendment 14 ensure that, where regulations under section 55 of the Local Government and Finance Act 1988 provide for valuation officers to impose financial penalties regarding the provision of false information in relation to a proposal to alter a Welsh list, the regulations must require the sums received to be paid into the Welsh Consolidated Fund.

Amendment 12, in clause 26, page 44, line 14, after “English list” and insert “or a Welsh list”.

See the explanatory statement for amendment 10.

Amendment 13, in clause 26, page 44, line 24, leave out “Consolidated Fund” and insert “appropriate fund”.

This amendment and amendment 14 enable regulations under section 55 of the Local Government and Finance Act 1988 to make provision about the payment of fees into the Welsh Consolidated Fund where the fees are paid by ratepayers in relation to appeals relating to proposals to alter a Welsh list.

Amendment 14, in clause 26, page 44, line 27, at end insert—

“( ) After subsection (7A) insert—

(7B) For the purposes of subsections (4B)(b) and (5A)(d) “the appropriate fund” means—

(a) where the provision made by virtue of subsection (4A)(c) or (5) is in relation to a proposal to alter an English list, the Consolidated Fund, and

(b) where the provision made by virtue of subsection (4A)(c) or (5) is in relation to a proposal to alter a Welsh list, the Welsh Consolidated Fund.””

See the explanatory statement for amendments 11 and 13.

Amendment 15, in clause 26, page 44, line 39, at end insert—

““Welsh list” means—

(a) a local non-domestic rating list that has to be compiled for a billing authority in Wales, or

(b) the central non-domestic rating list that has to be compiled for Wales.””

See the explanatory statement for amendment 10.

Amendment 16, in clause 26, page 44, line 47, leave out from “unless” to end of line 48 and insert “—

(a) where those regulations relate to a proposal to alter an English list, a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament;

(b) where those regulations relate to a proposal to alter a Welsh list, a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by a resolution of the National Assembly for Wales.”

This amendment and amendments 17 and 18 provide for regulations made by the Welsh Ministers under section 55 of the Local Government and Finance Act 1988 as amended by amendments 10 to 15 to be subject to procedure before the National Assembly for Wales equivalent to the procedure before Parliament which is required for corresponding regulations made by the Secretary of State under that section.

Amendment 17, in clause 26, page 45, line 2, leave out from “is” to end of line 3 and insert “—

(a) in the case of regulations relating to England, subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament;

(b) in the case of regulations relating to Wales, subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of the National Assembly for Wales.”

See the explanatory statement for amendment 16.

Amendment 18, in clause 26, page 45, line 3, at end insert—

“(3G) In subsection (3E), “English list” and “Welsh list” have the same meaning as in section 55.”—(Anna Soubry.)

See the explanatory statement for amendment 16.

Clause 26, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 27

Allowable assistance under Industrial Development Act 1982

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.