Public Bodies Bill [Lords]

Debate between Lord Beamish and James Paice

Tuesday 25th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paice]

It is not an insult. If it is an insult, it is an insult to Opposition Members who have been using that sort of analogy to show the relationship between modern-day farmers and their work force.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

I do not think that I was doing that, but is the Minister really telling the House that, if the Agricultural Wages Board is abolished, farmers—I understand that he was a farmer before he was a Minister—will drive up wages, rather than driving them down?

[Mr Paice]

The market is what will affect wages. That is the reality of how wages are set in every other—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Harrow West and the hon. Gentleman told us everything that happened after the abolition of the other wages councils and boards. I would take much more seriously all the remarks that we have heard from Opposition Members if they had recreated a single wages council or board in their 13 years in office. They did not do that, and that is why—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman says, “The minimum wage.” Yes, we support the minimum wage, and we have got it now.

[Mr Jones]

The Minister argues that wages should be left to the market. Is he therefore suggesting that there is no need for the Low Pay Commission and the minimum wage? That is the ultimate conclusion of his logic.

[Mr Paice]

The hon. Gentleman knows full well that that is not what I said. This group of amendments deals with not only the Agricultural Wages Board, but the Commission for Rural Communities.

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[Mr Paice]

The hon. Gentleman does not seem to grasp that, if someone decides to change their job in the future, they will obviously want to take into account what terms and conditions the alternative is offering them. I will not dispute his figures, because they are the ones laid down at the moment, but anyone changing jobs will want to consider the options available to them.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

The Minister has just referred to agricultural wages being gold-plated. What does he consider to be gold-plated about the wages paid to agricultural workers?

[Mr Paice]

I was referring to the wages order, not the wages themselves. The Agricultural Wages Board structure is gold-plated. As other hon. Members have mentioned, the reality is that a lot of agricultural wages order measures go way beyond what is laid down in statute for any other walk of life or sector of employment.