National Security and Defence

Lord Walney Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right to say that crucial to our defence is a strong defence and aerospace sector that can keep us at the cutting edge of capabilities, because that is essential for our future.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

We are living through a time when there are worrying gaps in our capabilities, so today’s announcements are very welcome, but may I press the Prime Minister on pay for the armed forces? Is he saying that new joiners will receive an inferior package, and, if that is the case, how will that affect morale?

[The Prime Minister]

We are trying to design a package for new joiners that is attractive for people in the modern workforce. We have to ask questions about how people want to be housed and what sort of flexibility they want at work during their lives. The fact that we are seeing so many more women join our armed forces will also have consequences that we need to consider. The new joiners’ package is about taking all those things into account.

G20

Lord Walney Excerpts

Monday 17th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We have set out our plans for this Parliament, and we will have to set out our plans for the years ahead at the next election. As I said, we have maintained a £33 billion defence budget—one of the top five in the world. The most important message for the Baltic states is that they are full members of NATO. I think they are very grateful for that when they see the destabilisation that is taking place in other parts of the world. We need to guarantee to them that being full members of NATO means just that.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the need for these measures signal that the United Kingdom’s budget deficit will take even longer to clear?

[The Prime Minister]

We have set out our plans in Budget and autumn statements, we have cut the budget deficit by a third, and we will be setting out the figures later in the month in the normal way.

Iraq: Coalition Against ISIL

Lord Walney Excerpts

Friday 26th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am going to make a little progress with my speech and then I will take several more interventions.

As I have said, we have to take action at home and abroad. As we take action abroad, it must involve using all the resources at our disposal. That means humanitarian efforts, which Britain is already leading, to help those displaced by ISIL’s onslaught. It means diplomatic efforts to engage the widest possible coalition of countries in the region as part of this international effort. At the United Nations, we are leading the process of condemning ISIL, disrupting the flows of finance to ISIL and forging a global consensus about preventing the movement of foreign fighters. Vitally, and as I have just been saying, this strategy also involves political efforts to support the creation of a new and genuinely inclusive Government in Iraq and to bring about a transition of power in Syria that can lead to a new representative and accountable Government in Damascus so that they, too, can take the fight to ISIL. As one part of that comprehensive strategy, I believe that our military have an indispensible role to play. In a moment or two, I will say why, but first I will take an intervention from the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock).

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Prime Minister say more about the vital subject of trying to change the nature of government in Syria, and about Iran’s potential role in that?

[The Prime Minister]

To be frank, what Syria needs is what Iraq needs: an inclusive, democratic Government that represents all of its people. We have had our strategy in that regard—backing the moderate Syrian opposition, the Syrian National Council, and working with others—but I do think that Iran has a role to play. I met President Rouhani in New York to discuss that and other issues, and Iran can play a role in helping to bring about better government in both Syria and Iraq. The jury is still out as to whether Iran will play that role, but we should certainly be encouraging it to do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Edward Miliband]

I want to move on if I may to the third part of my remarks.

Some people might accept the criteria that I have set out, but say that it is not our job to intervene because western intervention always makes things worse—we must confront this issue, because it will concern not just Members in this House but people in the country. I understand that argument, but I do not agree with it. Intervention always has risks, but a dismembered Iraq would be more dangerous for Britain. ISIL unchecked means more persecution of the innocent. If we say to people that we will pass by on this one, it makes it far harder to persuade other Arab countries to play their part. Members across the House have been saying that this must be resolved in the neighbourhood and that we must engage the region. We would have less moral authority to say that we want the Arab states to play their part, if we say, “I’m sorry, but this has nothing to do with us. We won’t intervene.” Finally, we should pride ourselves on our traditions of internationalism. Being internationalist and not withdrawing from the concerns of the world is when Britain is at its best.

I want to speak now about the underlying reasons for wariness over action. I am talking here about the 2003 war in Iraq. I understand why some who were in the House at the time will wonder whether this is a repeat of that experience. In my view, it is not, and it is worth setting out why.

First, as the Prime Minister said, this case is about supporting a democratic state. It is not about overturning an existing regime and seeking to build a new one from the rubble, which is a much harder undertaking. Secondly, there is no debate about the legal base for action in Iraq, as there was in 2003. Thirdly, there is no argument over whether military action is a last resort. Whatever side of the debate we are on, no one is saying, “Let’s negotiate with ISIL.” They are not people with whom we can negotiate. Fourthly, there is broad international support, not a divided world, with all 28 EU member states and the Arab League providing support, and five Arab states taking part in action. Fifthly, there is no question of British ground troops being deployed. I understand the wariness there will be in the House and in the country about whether this is a repeat of 2003, but on those five grounds it is not, and it is demonstrably not.

[John Woodcock]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that our failure to reconstruct Iraq properly after the war actually increases our responsibility to act responsibly and engage other partners in the region to create a more stable country for the future than we have seen over the past 10 years?

[Edward Miliband]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend about our responsibilities, and indeed our responsibilities to the people of Iraq.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

I will be supporting the motion today. We are right to demand a coherent and effective strategy but on the bigger issue of whether to act at all, the question I ask is this: if we are not prepared to take on monsters such as these when they threaten our citizens, our interests and our entire value system, and if we accept that there can be no accommodation with them at all, when exactly would we be prepared to act? I respect the Prime Minister for being clear today that this campaign may last several years. We must authorise action in the knowledge of the lives, military and civilian, that may be lost. But it is right that we strike now, at a time when extremists have made great advances but do not yet have the secure foothold in the region that they need. They control Iraq’s second city but not yet the full apparatus of statehood.

We should recognise the legacy of the botched vote on Syria last year. I know that there are different views on this, but for my part, the failure of US and UK resolve did not magically trigger this chemical weapon breakthrough, as some suggest; it emboldened extremists by showing them that the bar for action against their terror was that much higher.

We must dispel confusion about the forces fighting in Syria. It is demeaning and wrong to hear people say that last year we were being asked to intervene on the side of ISIL. The moderate democratic Syrian opposition coalition were desperate for help in their two-fronted battle against a murderous dictator on one side, and the evil jihadis on the other. They are now beaten back but they are not cowed, and their forces will play an important part in degrading ISIL within Syria—if we can give them support through air strikes.

It is time for all sides in this debate to match laudable rhetoric with commitment. If we believe that the world must pursue ISIL until it is defeated; if we accept the legal case; if we support the action of other nations operating in the country; and if we think it morally wrong, as has been powerfully expressed today, for us to sit on the sidelines while others confront this evil, we must state our ambition now to put forward a strategy for action inside Syria too.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Lord Walney Excerpts

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I very much agree with what my hon. Friend says. This individual is in no way representative of the many hard-working British Asians who live in his constituency and contribute enormously to our country. It is shocking to read someone born and raised in Britain, and schooled in our country, saying, “The only reason I want to come back to Britain is to bomb, maim and kill.” Of course we should ensure that we have laws—we do have such laws—so that people who say and do these things can be prosecuted, but the reason for asking what more is required is that sometimes, these cases do not come up to a level of criminal proof, yet these people threaten our country. That is why there were control orders in the past and there are now terrorism prevention and investigation measures, and that is why we are taking steps to strip people of passports or prevent people from coming into our country. Where there are gaps, it is worth asking whether they can be addressed.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister’s responses to previous questions imply that he is open to the idea of direct military participation in the current air strikes to protect the Kurds. If that is the case, will he just say so clearly now?

[The Prime Minister]

I have described the approach we have taken to date, and said that we support American air strikes. I do not think that we should rule anything out. We should act, and a British Government should act, to promote the British national interest and to help keep our people safe. We should consider everything in the light of that. In particular, as I have said, we should ask ourselves how we best help those people on the ground who are doing vital work in countering ISIL. On these issues, I always believe that it is vital to consult, talk with and listen to the House of Commons at every stage.

The House will be reassured to know, however, that if there was a direct threat to British national interests, or if, as in the case of Libya, we had to act very rapidly to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe, the British Government must reserve the right to act immediately and inform the House of Commons afterwards. It is important to set that out, but the House has seen what the British Government have done to date, and I am listening carefully to the views of hon. Members in this debate.

European Council and Nuclear Security Summit

Lord Walney Excerpts

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

The nuclear security summit was timely, given the real fears of NATO members on Russian borders. The Prime Minister knows that we increase global threat when we show weakness in the face of resolve, so will he rule out any downgrading to a part-time UK deterrent in this uncertain environment?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. It is very important that we maintain Britain’s nuclear deterrent as the ultimate insurance policy. All the information I have seen and all the arguments I have had lead me to believe that that means a submarine-based deterrent based on continuous at-sea presence.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Walney Excerpts

Wednesday 12th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I was appalled, and I am sure everybody would be appalled, by the experiences of one of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. In Wales, where the NHS is run by Labour, 33%—a third—of patients wait more than eight weeks to access diagnostic services. In England, only just over 1% of patients wait longer than six weeks for the same services. I think the comparison speaks for itself.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q11. This week marks three years since the bloodshed began in Syria. More than 2.5 million people have fled the country, and the dead can no longer even be counted. We must all bear responsibility for our shameful failure to intervene, but the Government are supposed to be the ones running the country. So what renewed effort will the Deputy Prime Minister’s Government make to end the slaughter before all hope fails?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman knows my own views. I felt that there was a case for intervention at the time when we voted on this. Of course, his party voted against it, but if he now wants to speak to his own party leadership on that matter, he is more than welcome to do so. I agree with him. The humanitarian catastrophe there is on an unimaginable scale, and we must do everything we can to help. That is why—I think I am right in saying—our humanitarian effort there is now the largest that this country has ever delivered. It is also why the Home Secretary and others in Government are now administering, in conjunction with the United Nations, a new programme whereby we allow the most destitute and desperate refugees some refuge in this country.

European Council

Lord Walney Excerpts

Monday 10th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The collective security approach is at the heart of NATO, and we should reaffirm it every time NATO countries meet. Looking back, was it right to allow Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland and other countries to join the European Union and NATO? Yes, it was. It gave them the security and stability to make economic progress, combat corruption and have the sort of free and open societies that the House supports. They draw a lot of strength and succour from that, and we should not forget it.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister is right to say there is a pattern to President Putin’s aggressive expansionism. Is the right hon. Gentleman not concerned that the measures he has committed to, or set out as possibilities, may prove insufficient to disrupt that pattern? Will we not look back with great regret if this emboldens Russia to continue on this path, potentially to the door of NATO members themselves?

[The Prime Minister]

If we pursue the steps we are contemplating and the steps the EU has agreed to take in a strong, predictable and consistent way, we can demonstrate to Russia that there is a pathway where it chooses dialogue and diplomacy to settle these issues, rather than further destabilisation. That would be the right outcome. I do not think that this approach is doomed not to work, for the simple reason that there are long-term costs to Russia in not recognising the importance of its economic and diplomatic relationship with Europe. For instance, we talk a lot about Russian gas. Yes, Europe is reliant on Russian gas to the tune of 25% of the EU market as a whole, but approximately 50% of Gazprom’s sales are to Europe. There are, therefore, strong arguments to say that Russia needs a sensible relationship with Europe more than Europe needs a sensible relationship with Russia. We should not talk ourselves down in any way. If we are tough, predictable and consistent we can help to emphasise to Russia that she should choose a path of diplomacy, not conflict.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Walney Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It does not, on the face of it, sound a very sensible approach. I was not aware of the specific issue, so let me have a look at it and get back to my hon. Friend.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q15. Why has the Prime Minister told members of his party behind closed doors that forcing through same-sex marriage legislation was a terrible mistake?

[The Prime Minister]

I have not. I am very proud of the fact that we passed same-sex marriage in this Parliament and very proud of the role I played in bringing it forward. As I have just been saying, I think that marriage is a wonderful thing, and that goes for a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman. It is a great reform that makes our country fairer. I hope that is clear.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Walney Excerpts

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend must be a soothsayer if he can tell what is in a report that has not been published yet. As he knows, the confidential version of the report has been provided to the Prime Minister and me, and we hope to publish the unclassified version shortly, when he will see that options are available to us. I have always argued against the idea that a total, like-for-like, exact replacement of Trident on precisely the same basis is the only option available to us as a country.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

T10. Does “shortly” mean before the summer recess? Given that the Deputy Prime Minister’s report will show that his grand idea of a mini-deterrent was always a complete fantasy, why should anyone take him seriously if he now says that Britain could be adequately protected with a part-time deterrent?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

We have another psychic telling us what is in a report that he has not seen yet. We hope that the report will be published shortly; we hope to publish it before the recess, but of course we need to check that the unclassified document is properly vetted in all respects, which is what we are doing at the moment. The simple point is: does the hon. Gentleman believe that a weapons system designed to be fired at the push of a button, at any minute of any hour of any day, 365 days a week, to flatten Moscow in a cold war context, is the only weapons system available to us? That is the question he needs to answer.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Walney Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am delighted that my hon. Friend managed to slip that point in at the end. I urge any hon. Friends who are not there already to make their way to Eastleigh this afternoon and support Maria Hutchings in the by-election campaign.

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We need to look through every aspect of how we welcome people to our country, because while we must be fair, we must not be a soft touch. I am making sure that we look at our health service, housing, benefits, legal aid and everything else, so that we have proper and tough controls on people who want to come and live here.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q13. The Treasury was required to approve the settlement made with the dismissed former chief executive of my local hospitals trust in February last year. If the Prime Minister believes in openness in the NHS, why have his Government allowed the size of the pay-off to be kept secret?

[The Prime Minister]

I will look very closely at the case the hon. Gentleman raises. I know there have been particular issues around foundation trusts in the area he represents, and I will make sure that the Health Secretary looks into the matter and writes to him about it.