Draft Trade Union (Levy Payable to the Certification Officer) Regulations 2022 Draft Trade Union (Power of the Certification Officer to impose Financial Penalties) Regulations 2022

Debate between Lord Spellar and Lord Mackinlay of Richborough

Tuesday 25th January 2022 General Committees

[John Spellar]

You are right to bring me up to date, Mr Davies, because today, from the Government’s point of view, these sorts of regulations, which will be seen as anti-union not only in this country but elsewhere, will not help us in our relations with the United States, where there is an Administration that is strongly pro-union. We are trying to get a trade deal, and trade and workers’ rights are not unconnected. If we look, for example, at the import of personal protective equipment into the United States, a firm in Malaysia has been found guilty of unfair labour practice—forced labour. The United States then says, “We are barring that company from selling into the USA.”

[Craig Mackinlay]

The right hon. Gentleman is offering a great exposé of the history of the trade unions locally and internationally. We are talking here about a sum across the entire trade union movement of approximately £1 million at best, with an income, as highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest, of about £1 billion. I have just looked up some donations to the Labour party in 2019: £3.5 million for the election from Unite and £425,000 from the CWU. Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that by saving some of the administration costs to the union movement, it can recirculate more to the Labour party? Is that the core of his arguments?

[John Spellar]

That is a pretty poor argument because that would be in breach of very long-standing trade union legislation whereby members make a donation through the political levy to the political fund, which is protected. If the hon. Gentleman has one shred of evidence of administrative general fund money being channelled through into the political fund, even under the current law he can go straight down, because someone is not required to be a member in order to make that sort of payment. He might be a bit more sensitive about political donations and spending, but we will leave that on one side.

[Craig Mackinlay]

On a point of order, Mr Davies. I like political debate. I was acquitted in a court of law, and the right hon. Gentleman wishes to raise that in this debate. I find that disgusting, Mr Davies.

[The Chair]

That is not really a point of order. As I have pleaded before, we must stick to the issue before us today. If the right hon. Member for Warley will not stick to the issue before us today, I will move on to someone else who might. I urge him to stick to what we are debating today. He will have no further latitude because I have already given him plenty.