Fracking: Local Consent

Debate between Jim Shannon and George Freeman

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Westminster Hall

[George Freeman]

The hon. Lady makes an excellent point. Indeed, that is why the former Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), used to refer to the southern North sea as the Saudi Arabia of wind energy. That is precisely our ambition. First, we need to ensure that we can meet our own domestic energy market needs.

The hon. Member for Bath makes a crucial point for me very well, which is that we are in a global market and global energy demand over the next 20, 30 and 40 years will rise. It is not just a question of moving our existing energy demands to renewable supplies, vital though that is; it is also about developing the renewables of the future and contributing globally. As Minister for science, research, technology and innovation, I can say that we are investing heavily in small nuclear, in fusion, in marine and in geothermal, because we see a huge opportunity for the UK to be in the vanguard of the renewables and clean energies of tomorrow.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for his detailed, helpful and comprehensive response. I read in the paper over the weekend about some of the innovation across the world on which we can interact with others. I understand that Morocco has an abundance of green energy, and, if the press are correct, that discussions are taking place between the UK Government and the Moroccan Government to export that green energy to the United Kingdom by an undersea channel. Is the Minister aware of that and if he is, could he elaborate on it?

[George Freeman]

The hon. Member has made an important point. I will not attempt to answer it because I am not the Minister for Climate, but I will flag it with him and ask that the hon. Member gets a proper answer.

As well as our groundbreaking leadership in the transition of our existing energy system to net zero supply, we are investing heavily in the technologies of tomorrow to ensure that we can be a global player in the great challenges we face. Agriculture and transport are the two biggest industries after energy that generate and use the most carbon and greenhouse gases, and we are hugely advanced in research and development in those sectors. I say that as a former Minister for future transport and for agritech. This country has a huge opportunity as part of the science superpower mission to generate solutions that we can export around the world, and I am proud of what we are doing.

Given the crisis in Ukraine and the extraordinary pressures on everybody this year when it comes to paying their energy bills, the Government made a huge commitment to cap those energy bills and provide support, but it is right that our customers—the constituents we serve, taxpayers, households and businesses—would expect any responsible Government to look at whether there are easily and quickly accessible supplies of clean gas in the UK that could be extracted in a sensible and environmentally satisfactory way. People would think it was daft and weird if we were not prepared even to look at doing so in such a context. But let me be clear: that cannot in any situation go against our own environmental commitments, the environmental advice we have received or, crucially, local consent. As others have said, the British Geological Survey has made it crystal clear that there is no evidence to suggest that fracking can be pursued in any way that would pass that test. Again, I am delighted to repeat how pleased I personally am that we—the Prime Minister, the Cabinet and the Government —have made it clear that we are back to our 2019 effective moratorium.

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[George Freeman]

I do not want to steal the thunder of my ministerial colleague, my right hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness, who is looking at that issue right now. The pandemic and the war in Ukraine have revealed that we are exposed on a number of our food and agricultural supply chains. We need to get the balance right between covering far too much of our agricultural land and equally making sure that where communities can carry industrial sites, we have the right incentives in place.

[Jim Shannon]

We have had a number of debates in Westminster Hall on that very issue. Others who have spoken on that have said that key agricultural land needs to be retained for food production, and all the more so because of the food supply crisis across the world and the Ukraine war. With great respect, I believe there has been a consensus that highly productive agricultural land needs to be retained for that purpose alone.

[George Freeman]

The hon. Member makes an important point, which I personally agree with and the Government are sensitive to. Again, our constituents would think it perverse if, at the very time when our exposure to international food supply and agricultural supply chains has been exacerbated by the war in Ukraine and the pandemic, we were then to decide to take out of productive capacity huge areas of agricultural land. Agriculture is a great British industry and the agritech sector is developing net zero technologies that allow us to do clean and green agriculture. We do not want to undermine that industry.

UK Diagnostics Industry and Covid-19 Recovery

Debate between Jim Shannon and George Freeman

Tuesday 10th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Sadly, I was not a Minister at the time—I would love to have been—but I do not think it is a state secret to say that there were clearly mistakes made in that national emergency. That is why there is a proper and full inquiry. He has made some important points that need to be picked up, but I do not think he would expect me to give a running commentary here on the decisions that were taken. If we cast our minds back, there was a two or three-week period when we were worried that the lack of ventilators would be the great crisis. Innovative groups all around the country were stood up as part of the national challenge to try to design ventilators, with engineers working out how to do things. All that happened in very fast order, and all sorts of issues were raised and procurements flagged that we did not need in the end. I do not think anyone would say that it was a seamless process; it was a national emergency, and there were clearly many lessons to learn.

To deal with the hon. Gentleman’s bigger points—I will perhaps pick up the specifics in detail in a written reply—as a former Life Sciences Minister, I observe that the pandemic revealed that things that we had done seven or eight years earlier in the coalition Government had paid not just the four times return on investment that is traditional in this sector, but many times over that. The truth is that the reasons we were able to sequence the virus so fast were the launching of the genomics programme, which I was proud to have led back under the coalition, the accelerated access review we put in place, the parallel approvals process with the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, the early access to medicines scheme, and the setting up of Vaccine Manufacturing and Innovation Centre. John Bell and I suggested in 2016 that it would be a sensible piece of foresight to invest in vaccine manufacturing, which was clearly going to change. Of course, we had no idea that a pandemic would mean that that facility would suddenly become incredibly important.

Also important was the establishment of NHS Digital. One of the lessons of the pandemic is the importance of really good data and of both national and local data sets. As a Norfolk MP, I remember being frustrated that we did not have the granularity of data or the ability to do public health by cities or districts; it was instead by big, clumsy Government regions. There are all sorts of lessons there about how an emergency requires not only national implementation and measures but the subtlety of local control, empowering local experts on the ground who are best equipped to work out how to contain and control.

I want to focus on where I can add perhaps most value in this debate and on the hon. Gentleman’s points about the importance of the diagnostics industry. One of the great lessons of the pandemic, which has absolutely been taken to the heart of Government, is that we must recognise that globalisation will drive more and more infectious disease challenges. God forbid we have another pandemic of this type, but over the past 10 or 15 years we have had zika, Ebola and covid. It is likely that we will see more such things. Hopefully they will be local or regional, but if we are not ready to contain them, we could see outbreaks of disease.

Globalisation will drive the release of new pathogens, which is why pathogen detection is one of the technologies that I am putting at the heart of our three-year plan going forward. Indeed, I am working with the chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance on how we can ensure that we harness our leadership in genomics for broader pathogen detection across animal, plant and human health and make sure that we build that network off the back of the pandemic.

The hon. Gentleman made a more specific point that in the NHS, the care system and the life sciences industry—I say this as someone who spent 15 years in the sector before coming to Parliament—diagnostics was for years the slightly poor relation. Drug discovery and the pharmaceutical sector tended to raise the big money and have the higher profile, but the pandemic revealed that diagnostics is absolutely key to getting on top of the disease. The life sciences industry is moving to recognise that if we want to deliver real value and reduce the cost of disease, which is the real key to the economy and the health system, we need to build in diagnosis much earlier. That means both the easy diagnosis—if I may call it that—of easily detectable and treatable diseases and the deeper science of longer-term diagnosis of tomorrow’s conditions.

That is why, in the update to our life sciences industrial strategy that we set out last year, we have insisted on closing the gap over the next 10 years between the traditional dichotomy in Government—the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy sponsors the research and the Department of Health and Social Care does the procurement, licensing and approvals—to try to build a much more integrated model through which we focus on diseases in places and the patient pathway and bring diagnosis, treatment and prevention together around the eight disease missions. One thing I hope and intend that that will do is put the diagnostics industry at the heart of those missions; traditionally, it has been an industry that has tended to be about the black box that sits on the hospital ward, but these days it is becoming integral to the life sciences industry and to working out how to treat, understand and detect disease. Those missions are completely key.

Let me reassure the hon. Gentleman and other colleagues here this evening by saying that we are also investing heavily, in this next phase, in the mRNA technologies that are key to the next phase of detection and diagnosis, and in new treatments. VMIC, which we set up as an academic unit to work on future vaccine manufacturing technologies, suddenly became an urgent facility for onshoring during the pandemic. I am pleased that we have transferred VMIC into the hands of Catalent, a world leader in mRNA diagnostics, therapeutics and treatments. So we have established a much more robust national supply chain in dealing with both flu and other respiratory diseases, and other pathogens. Many of the lessons have been learned, but obviously there is more to do.

We have set out in our latest life sciences vision an £8 billion commitment to research, including work with the Medical Research Council, deep research on my side of the portfolio at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and putting some £4.5 billion into the Department of Health and Social Care and the National Institute for Health and Care Research. The NIHR, where we are talking about £1 billion a year, is the sort of engine of research under the NHS. Crucially, we have said that, at its heart, diagnostics has to be central to that landscape. I refer not only to the detection of influenza and other respiratory pathogens, but to molecular diagnostics, biomarkers and genomic insights into disease. That is because the NHS is a huge procurer daily of blood tests for individual conditions, as the hon. Gentleman knows well. If we properly integrate that, we will be building up a database of deep expertise in biomarkers and understanding the early signals of disease, and we can harness that to make the NHS much more of a diagnostics research engine.

The dream and aim in respect of those eight disease missions is that we will be able to mobilise patients much more quickly, through digital technologies, into trials. Patients, through charities, will be able to enrol in clinical research. Using that spine of the biobank and molecular diagnostics, we can start to give industry much quicker access to the patients who are on the frontline of the conditions we need to treat.

That should drive a virtuous circle, in which we detect earlier, treat earlier and attract investment, and ultimately, as the hon. Gentleman says, we move from a paradigm where the NHS, under cost pressures, is a low-price and often late procurer to a scenario in which it does not have to be a high-price payer because it is giving industry an even more valuable thing: access to patients, charities and disease and patient consent for research. The NHS’s role in this sector is, thus, as a research engine. I have made it clear to industry that we will never, in a publicly funded healthcare system, be the highest-price payer—it would not expect us to be—but that the promise I can make it is that we will move heaven and earth to be an earlier adopter, an earlier tester and the best place in the world for it to come to test and diagnose its new treatments, and get the data on which patients they work in. Industry will then be able to use that to go around the world and sell to other countries. That is the vision of the NHS as a 21st-century research engine.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister referred to Queen’s University Belfast, and I know he has a particular interest in being there and being involved with it. Will he indicate whether Queen’s University Belfast, or any other university in Northern Ireland, has been involved in this type of research and partnership? It is so important to take advantage of the massive amount of knowledge in the sector.

[George Freeman]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point and invites me to signal again my support for what is going on in Northern Ireland. If we look at the cancer outcomes in Northern Ireland, the Queen’s University team that has been working on biomarkers and earlier detection has ended up driving not just investment, but much quicker and better outcomes for the people of Northern Ireland. The real power of the sector is that it delivers better healthcare for everybody within the values of the NHS, but also attracts investment and drives industry. I would go so far as to say that in the new landscape, companies such as Randox will develop affordable consumer diagnostic kits that can help drive earlier detection, building on to a digital interface. We can then support patients to get into trials earlier and drive research medicine. Belfast is on the frontline of that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jim Shannon and George Freeman

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman]

I absolutely agree. As a rural MP, I do not need to take any lectures from the Liberal Democrats on the importance of rural innovation. I will address the specific point about tidal power: we have just put £30 million into it. It would be good hear the hon. Gentleman—and his party—applaud the nuclear industry, which is an important part of that region.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his answers. With reference to university places for those from low-income backgrounds, will he consider greater financial aid for STEM subjects—science, technology, engineering and maths—for students from any part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to find their passion and long-term career?

[George Freeman]

The hon. Member makes a really important point that is at the heart of our £100 million innovation accelerator pilot programme. We have chosen the locations—Glasgow, Manchester and the west midlands—for the initial tranche, because we want to invest in places where there is strong world-class research and development and innovation cheek by jowl with lamentable deprivation. I very much hope that over the next few years we can extend it out to areas, including parts of Northern Ireland, where that similar pattern of excellence alongside deprivation is sadly still present.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jim Shannon and George Freeman

Tuesday 21st September 2021 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman]

On Gloucestershire Day, it is a great pleasure to take that question from my hon. Friend, and the answer is yes.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Renewables are very important everywhere across the United Kingdom, but one of the problems for renewables is getting access to the grid. The Electric Storage Company in Northern Ireland has told me that if that was improved, energy could be stored for access to the grid. Can the Secretary of State tell us what he could do to make that happen?