State Pension Changes: Women

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. Everybody’s interventions so far have added to the debate and reinforced the issue.

Back when ladies started to work, there were no remunerated childcare schemes and it was not standard practice for ladies to be offered access to work pension schemes.

With all due respect to the Minister, the DWP has fallen down on this matter. The Department admitted in 2009 that direct communication with those affected by increases in the state pension age was limited. In 1995, leaflets explaining the changes were available from the Benefits Agency, but only on request. In other words, if someone wanted to know anything—if they even knew to ask—that is what they should have asked for. The fact is that the DWP has a responsibility.

Some 16 million voluntary letters were issued in the form of automatic pension forecasts projecting state pension entitlements, including to women aged over 50 at the time. Those letters did not include any details of state pension age or mention that it was changing, so those women were not fully notified. That is what this debate is about. When we look back specifically to the years between 1995 and 2000, we are reminded that we lived in a relatively pre-internet world, where information was not so readily available at the click of a button and social media did not exist. In the late 1990s, we had only five TV channels, and 24-hour broadcasting was still a thing of the future.

The DWP survey of 2004 asked working-age adults about awareness of state pension age equalisation. The results showed that, of those who were aware, 47% got their information from TV advertising, 37% were informed by reading a newspaper and only 2%—only 2%—cited the Pension Service as their source of information. The Pension Service had the responsibility, and it failed badly. Some 98% of those who qualified did not even know from the state Pension Service what should have been happening. That is a massive issue, and it has to be addressed. Furthermore, despite the efforts made through television and newspaper advertising, access to what we see now as the most basic avenues of communication was limited for women who were not securely housed or in unstable domestic environments.

WASPI women deserve to be compensated for the injustice they have had to face, and that compensation should be based on the principles of recognition, restitution and reconciliation. We could call them the three Rs—it is almost like going back to school—but here they apply to the WASPI women and pensions.

The first principle of compensation is recognition, and quite clearly there is a lot to do. The Government should acknowledge the harm and suffering caused by the changes to the state pension age, the inadequate communication of those changes and the failure to consult the women concerned for the reasons I have outlined. Recognition is important for restoring the dignity and trust of these women and for validating their experiences and grievances. It is also a precondition of achieving justice and reconciliation, as it shows that the Government are willing to take responsibility and to make amends for their actions. That is what this is about.

To date, there has been resistance to offering a formal apology to the WASPI women, and the Government have argued that the actions that were taken were lawful and reasonable. Let us be quite clear: they were not. That stance has been challenged by the PHSO, which found in 2021 that the Department for Work and Pensions had committed maladministration, as the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) referred to in an intervention.

The PHSO also found that, by failing to act quickly enough to inform the women about the changes to their state pension age, the DWP had not given due regard to the impact of the changes on the women’s lives and offered them no adequate support or guidance. The PHSO recommended that the Government should apologise to the women and pay them compensation for the distress and inconvenience caused by the DWP’s maladministration —I use that word because it is the right word; it describes exactly what happened.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the speech he has made so far. People have been waiting three years since the report he has just outlined. Does he agree that justice delayed is justice denied and that the Government should, as the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) said, compensate them now and use this Budget to deliver that compensation?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Member for that, and he is right: there is a real onus on Government to reach out and help.

The PHSO also found that the DWP had not given due regard to the impact of the changes on women’s lives and had not offered women adequate support or guidance. It recommended that the Government should apologise to the women and pay them compensation for all those things, including the maladministration. The Government should take positive steps following the PHSO’s findings and recommendations and issue that sincere and public apology to the WASPI women. That would be a significant gesture of respect and remorse and a first step towards repairing the relationship between Government and the women we all represent.

The second principle of compensation is restitution. The Government should restore the affected women to the position they would have been in had the changes to the state pension not occurred, or at least mitigate the negative effects of the changes. Restitution is important for compensating the women for the material and non-material losses they have incurred and for ensuring that they can enjoy a decent and dignified retirement. Wow! How much do we all want to see a decent and dignified retirement? Restitution is also a way to correct the imbalance and inequality caused by the changes and to ensure that the women are not penalised for their sex and their age.

The WASPI women will have different views and demands in terms of what constitutes fair and adequate restitution. Some want a bridging pension or a lump sum payment to cover the gap between their expected and actual state pension age. There really has to be something, and we need to see that coming forward. The restitution that each woman should receive may also depend on their individual circumstances, such as their income, health and caring responsibilities.

Football and Dementia

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Thursday 14th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, may I congratulate the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) on introducing the debate, all Members who have made contributions, and those who will reply from their Front Bench? I look forward very much to the Minister’s response. I do not mean to put any pressure or expectation on him, but we are very fortunate to have a Minister who always tries to give us a response that is constructive and helpful. We as MPs are trying to garner a response for our constituents. I know that he will listen to all of the points of view put forward and then respond in a way that helps us.

We have asked the Government to investigate the links between football and sport-related neurodegenerative disease. A 2019 public study revealed that football players were at increased risk of diagnosis of neurodegenerative disease. The risk increase was observed for Alzheimer’s disease and other dementias, but not for all types of neurodegenerative disease, and for outfield players but not goalkeepers. As others have said, if three or four of the 11 who play in a team do not have it but the others do, there must be an issue. The call for this to be classified as an industrial injury is heavily backed in Northern Ireland as well, so it is important for me to be here to give that Northern Ireland perspective.

Last year, some of Northern Ireland’s most iconic footballers reunited to raise funds for Dementia NI at the Spirit of ’82 event in Belfast. It was held in memory of their good friend and teammate, the legendary Northern Ireland manager Billy Bingham, who had been living with dementia for 16 years before he passed away on 9 June 2022. I do not think there is much between my age and that of the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber, but I am old enough to remember Northern Ireland playing at the World cup in Spain in 1982. I had the opportunity to meet all the football players and Billy Bingham, who was an inspiration to me at that early age. He was an inspiration on the pitch as a footballer, and he then became an inspiration as a manager.

I was also in Mexico in 1986, which was before I got married—everything changes when we get married, and we are not able to get away the same as we used to—and on coming home I had the opportunity to get the autographs of the Northern Ireland team and Billy Bingham. A Brazilian football supporter and I swapped a Brazilian shirt and a Northern Ireland shirt, so I have in my office a shirt with the autographs of all the Northern Ireland team of 1986 plus Billy Bingham. I pass that shirt every day and remember very clearly that he was a player who inspired me and inspired us all, yet he passed away as a result of the game he played so well. It is important to be here today to speak on behalf of the Billy Binghams of this world and others who have suffered and passed away.

It is fantastic that high-profile footballers recognise the link. That is also true of retired managers such as Sir Alex Ferguson and Alex McLeish. They were great players who we all looked up to as young boys and young men. That emphasises the importance of investigating this link further and gathering the evidence.

A study has found that footballers are 50% more likely to develop dementia than the rest of the population—that is evidence, factually based and cannot be ignored—fuelling calls to restrict rules for heading a football. Classifying it as an industrial injury would mean that former footballers suffering with the disease would be able to claim certain benefits for industrial injuries that occurred in the workplace. Their employment and the source of their income is the sport that they play. I support those calls, given the evidence, which is becoming clearer. My belief has been reinforced by all Opposition and Government Members who have spoken today. They have been galvanised by what they have heard in their own constituencies and from their own personal experience. The hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) spoke of what Rangers football club is doing. It is really important to have that in place.

The other evidential base is from football in the States—or soccer, as they call it. I find it hard to get my head around the word “soccer”, because we call it football. In the US, they have imposed guidelines limiting players’ exposure to heading, despite controversy over whether dementia is caused by heading the ball. The fact is that, as has been said, they have introduced precautions. The hon. Members for Easington (Grahame Morris) and for Glasgow South West referred to evidence from the universities. There is quite clearly an evidential base in the United States of America.

[Chris Stephens]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jim Shannon]

Absolutely.

[Chris Stephens]

I have always wanted to intervene on the hon. Gentleman. He has mentioned Billy Bingham and footballers in Northern Ireland. I am sure he will agree that it is important to note that the wages in Northern Ireland football are not at the elite level that we read about in all the sensational headlines in the newspapers. Does he therefore agree that access to the industrial injury benefit will help former footballers and their families?

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The wage structure in Northern Ireland is nowhere near that level. There is some expectation of teams in the Irish league. There have been many buy-outs and clubs with lots of money-making financial investments, but let us be honest: in the years past many people probably played because they loved the sport. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention.

Will the Minister undertake discussions with our American counterparts and share information so as to ensure that we have the most accurate information available on which to base our response to tackling this issue?

Universal Credit Deductions

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Westminster Hall

[Chris Stephens]

I do agree, and I point my hon. Friend to the written answer I secured, which gives the statistics for every constituency in England, Wales and Scotland. She will see that the rate of deductions is around £60 in her constituency, but she will also notice that the number of households affected by deductions is increasing. She makes an important point about looking at an individual’s pay cycle and whether it is four-weekly or monthly.

Let us look at some examples of people affected by deductions. The Trussell Trust tells us that almost half of people referred to food banks in its network are subject to deductions from their benefit payments due to repayment of a benefit advance or a benefit overpayment. We will see that linkage repeatedly during the debate. The Trussell Trust goes on to remind us that

“The five-week wait for Universal Credit means many people have no choice but to take an Advance Payment to manage essential bills like rent and utilities”,

which immediately places them in debt and reduces their income below the standard allowance.

Deductions for overpayments, including tax credit overpayments, often take people by surprise because they are historical or are the result of DWP error. Like other deductions, they can be taken from people automatically at unaffordable rates. The standard allowance of universal credit does not provide enough income to cover the cost of life’s essentials, so any deduction taking people below that already low level will push them further into hardship. Key phrases are advance payments, overpayments that are historical or due to Department for Work and Pensions error, and the cost of living essentials. I will come back to each of those.

We then hear from the Trussell Trust about consequent mental health wellbeing, which is often impaired by people struggling to understand what they owe, and why, and how to access support. The Trussell Trust is not alone in making those observations. The organisation Feeding Britain has

“a vision of a UK where no one goes hungry”.

I should also mention Good Food Scotland, with which I do a lot of work in Glasgow South West.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing this matter forward, and I will be making my own contribution to the debate. The Trussell Trust in Newtownards in my constituency was the first in Northern Ireland, and what it has to say about vision reinforces what the hon. Gentleman has said. According to Newtownards Trussell Trust,

“our vision is for a world where food banks, like ours, don’t need to exist.”

That is what we want to see, and I know the hon. Gentleman wants the same.

[Chris Stephens]

I thank the hon. Gentleman very much for that intervention. As he knows, he has relatives of mine among his constituents in Newtownards. He is absolutely correct about our vision: we all want to see a world in which food banks do not exist. I know he is very supportive of my Food Poverty Strategy Bill, which is a private Member’s Bill that I recommend to all hon. Members.

Feeding Britain has talked to many people who are having to go hungry. In the days leading up to the debate, food banks in Brighton, Derbyshire, Leeds and High Wycombe reported speaking to individuals who all cited deductions as a key reason for referrals to them, and described some harrowing cases. For example, a client in Chichester has some £55 a week to live on after deduction of rent and other deductions for advances and loans from universal credit. The client received no prior warning or notice of the deduction, and even her work coach was unable to explain why the deduction had been made. That client is a lone parent with three children. She is worried that even if the deduction is found to be a mistake, she will be waiting until the next payment to receive the money that was deducted.

Feeding Britain has also told us of a client in Manchester who had £72 deducted for rent arrears. The first he was made aware of that was three days before payment when he accessed his payment statement. Living off the standard universal credit allowance is difficult as it is, but so much being deducted with so little notice makes it almost impossible. The gov.uk website states that universal credit will place a note on the journal when a third-party debt deduction is about to start, but no such information about the debts—how much was owed or how long the client would be paying off the debt—was provided in that example; there was not even a note telling them how further information could be obtained by telephone. The closing comment from the Manchester office was that

“the most efficient aspect of Universal Credit is debt retrieval”.

In the report “UK Poverty 2023: The essential guide to understanding poverty in the UK”, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation highlights that key design features of the social security system, including having to wait five weeks for the first universal credit payment and universal credit being deducted to pay off debts and arrears, directly lead to higher food insecurity and have contributed to the rise in food banks.

The Child Poverty Action Group has shown that across the UK the number of children living in households with debt deductions being taken from their universal credit has risen to more than 2.2 million, making up more than half—53%—of all children in households receiving universal credit. Those families are missing out on an average of £73 a month as a result. Every commentator seems to express similar views on where the system is failing, and there is much commonality on where they think the appropriate solutions lie.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

My goodness! Thank you, Dame Maria. That threw me off. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship for the second day running. It has come to the point when you and I are in Westminster Hall almost as much as each other. Well, maybe that is an exaggeration. It is also a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens), who rightly brought forward this topic. We met on the Terrace this morning and he said, “Jim, will you come and do your bit?” and I said, “Does the Pope have red socks? Absolutely, I will be there. There is no doubt about it.” I am here to endorse what he said. A person from the food bank wrote me a letter, and I will quote the best part of it. He illustrates very well what happens, and why it is important.

I can well remember the fear at the outset of universal credit—the fear that people would be worse off, and that families would struggle. Boy, do they struggle. I am sorry to say that, but they do, because I witness it every day. I witnessed it on Friday in my office, with a person who had the same problem with universal credit. We were able to sort it, by the way. I find it incredibly hard to understand how universal credit works, and I am far from stupid. Once through the technical details and the machinations of the whole thing, one has to ask, “How on earth does anybody follow this?”.

For some, this fear has become a real struggle, and the deductions from an already sub-par universal credit is enough to push some families over the edge. I have seen that in my constituency office. My staff have a continuously good relationship with the social security offices round the corner. I have to put on record that they are brilliant. The number of problems that they have sorted out when my staff speak to them illustrates that they have grasped how the system works and how to get through it, but the ordinary person cannot do that. I have struggled to understand it as well.

It should be remembered that those who are unemployed or unable to work have a set rate that remains pretty stable. However, self-employed people have different work weeks, and the flexibility that universal credit was supposed to offer has resulted in deductions from overpayments. The hon. Member for Glasgow South West mentioned that, and I endorse it. The deductions are so hard to work out that families are left not even understanding how they owe money. It is incomprehensible.

The Minister understands. I am no different from anybody else here. Whenever we approach the Minister and explain the issues, he always tries to respond in a positive fashion. I appreciate that, and want to put that on record, because it is good to have a Minister who really wants to do things and help out. We are all working in our constituencies, advocating for our constituents, and we know well the issues that the hon. Member for Glasgow South West outlined.

I was contacted last week by the phenomenal manager of the local food bank, a man with the largest heart for helping families and vulnerable individuals. I want to read out his comments, as time permits. My speech is his letter to me, because it illustrates the issue really well. The hon. Member for Glasgow South West has friends and relatives in Newtownards. I know them—and think they vote DUP, by the way, so maybe they are not nationalists.

[Chris Stephens]

Not a chance.

[Jim Shannon]

I think they do; he does not know them as well as I do. The letter states:

“As a food bank operating in Newtownards, we are writing to you to raise our concerns about rising numbers of people in our community who are needing to turn to food banks, like ours, because they cannot afford the essentials we all need to survive.”

These are his words: “This is not right”. I say amen to that.

“In the last financial year we saw a 30% increase in clients coming to the Newtownards Foodbank compared to the previous year. We are aware that our summer has started really busily with an average of 24 different families attending each week since June in what is normally our quieter spell.

Many attendees are struggling with the inability to feed there families and provide fuel for their house needs. A significant proportion are actually working but their outgoings outstrip their income. Those on benefits clearly don’t get enough to match their basic needs.

While the cost of living crisis and the pandemic have placed additional pressures on incomes, this year’s rise is part of a longer-term trend in levels of need. Support has eroded over decades and the basic rate (‘standard allowance’) of universal credit is now at its lowest ever level as a proportion of average earnings. Alarmingly, the number of parcels provided this year is more than double the amount distributed five years ago.”

I will say that again, because that is an important line:

“Alarmingly, the number of parcels provided this year is more than double the amount distributed five years ago.

No one should be forced to turn to a food bank because they cannot afford essentials, including food. We provide immediate support to people in our community when they are struggling the most, but our vision is for a world where food banks, like ours, don’t need to exist.”

I said that in an intervention on the hon. Member for Glasgow South West. That is his vision, mine, the vision of every Opposition Member and, I hope, of the Minister. The letter also says:

“Research by the Trussell Trust shows that inadequate social security is the main driver of food bank need and there is a known link between issues with the benefits system and food bank use. This can and must change.

Alongside the Trussell Trust, we are calling for our social security system to Guarantee Our Essentials by making sure that the basic rate of Universal Credit is at least enough to afford the essentials we all need, such as food, energy and basic household goods – and that deductions can never pull people below this level.”

He asks me:

“Will you support the principle that, at a minimum, Universal Credit should always protect people from going without the essentials?”

That is Richard’s letter to me this week. I will say on the record that I fully support what he said.

Unpaid Work Trials

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Wednesday 29th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Chris Stephens]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. As I recall, it might very well have been in the debate on his private Member’s Bill when the then Minister rose to his feet and said, “I will be concluding my remarks at 2.30 pm.” That was at the beginning of his remarks. That is a completely scandalous way of dealing with it, but my hon. Friend is right. We have had assurances before that Bills would not be talked about and then, lo and behold, on the day that the Bill is up for discussion, that is exactly what happens.

We firmly oppose this practice. Because of the sectors of the economy that my hon. Friend referred to, we also oppose the inappropriate use of zero-hours contracts. Sometimes they go together, where there is an unpaid work trial for a zero-hours contract job. They are both exploitative practices. These non-standard types of employment that offer workers minimal job or financial security really have to end, particularly in a cost of living crisis. If the Government are really serious about helping people to earn more money, they need to put forward legislation to stop unpaid work trials and exploitative zero-hour contracts.

[Jim Shannon]

When that Bill was introduced approximately six years ago, we anticipated that it would go through Westminster and address this anomaly. Does the hon. Gentleman, like me, feel aggrieved—I am sure he does—that, in the six years since this legislative change, people have been exploited and thousands have lost out on what was rightly theirs?

DWP Office Closures

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Thursday 23rd June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

I want to raise the issue of Department for Work and Pensions office closures. I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, in particular my role as chair of the Public and Commercial Services Union parliamentary group.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I believe you have made representations on behalf of your constituents who are employed in the Department for Work and Pensions. This issue affects DWP staff across these islands. The PCS is the largest trade union in the civil service, representing 180,000 members, with workers throughout the civil service and Government agencies, including 50,000 members employed by the DWP. They are concerned, as hon. Members across the House are, about the DWP’s announcement of 17 March 2022 that more than 40 of its processing sites are to close, which we believe has the potential of putting more than 3,000 jobs at risk of redundancy.

There are three categories of processing site closures. The first is where the site is closing and the work will not be consolidated anywhere in the vicinity. I understand there are 13 sites in that category. The second category is where the site is closing but work will be consolidated into an office that the DWP has deemed is within the vicinity, which I understand is 28 sites. The third category is sites that were originally announced as transitional, which will be retained in the short to medium term but will remain badged as transitional. That is eight sites.

Despite the initial assurances given by Department Ministers at an urgent question I secured, the real concern is that we were told that the closures would not impact frontline services, but a further announcement, on 30 March, was for the closure of five jobcentres. That is very concerning and seems to be the latest push by the DWP to implement its network design strategy, which will put jobs and services at serious risk, and there is concern that the latest announcements could signal further jobcentre closures.

The PCS parliamentary group is clear that, following the previous closures under the people and locations programme, these closures will have a devastating impact on the services that staff provide and the local communities where the offices are based. They are a serious threat to DWP staff jobs.

On 17 March, when the original announcement was made, there were 1,118 staff in processing sites that will close without the work being consolidated within the vicinity and 7,341 staff in sites where the work is being consolidated into other offices. The speed at which the Department is operating and has moved to issue “at risk of redundancy” letters to staff across 25 of the 43 sites vindicates the concerns that many of us have that jobs will be lost as a result of the closures.

While some of the sites in the second category are seeing work moving into buildings that are very close by—the Falkirk and Preston sites, for example—other offices that the DWP has classed as being in the vicinity, and so plans to move staff to, are actually some considerable distance away. That includes the proposal to move the Doncaster office to Sheffield, which you will be aware, Madam Deputy Speaker, is 22 miles away. In many of the offices, one-to-one meetings have taken place with members of staff and it is clear that many will not be able to move; it is therefore certain that many DWP staff will be faced with the very real prospect of redundancy.

There are two processing sites in Wales due for closure from a previous round of closures, where staff have also been confirmed as at risk of redundancy as part of the 16 June announcement. That is because there are more than 120 staff based across the two sites who are unable to make the long journey to the proposed new office. The offices are closing in two tranches. On 16 June, the Department for Work and Pensions announced that, of the 29 sites in the first tranche, at 25 sites a total of 903 staff were at risk of redundancy. We believe that at the remaining 14 sites, which are due to be closed on a slightly slower timeline, similar numbers of staff are likely to be at risk of redundancy.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Chris Stephens]

No Adjournment debate would be complete without an intervention from the hon. Gentleman.

[Jim Shannon]

Adjournment debates do not usually come this early in the day, Madam Deputy Speaker, as you and I know, but none the less we are very pleased, and I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on coming forward with it. He is assiduous when it comes to these issues, and I thank him for that. I think the whole House should thank him for it, by the way.

Coming from a rural constituency, with intermittent public transport as well as an intermittent internet and mobile service, I know that centralisation or closure of services is never a good suggestion for people in isolated areas. I know the hon. Gentleman is referring to towns, but does he agree and will he call on the Minister to consider, where this is possible, the suggestion of having satellite offices in rural areas such as where I live as well as in the centralised urban areas he has mentioned?

[Chris Stephens]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention because I have family members in his constituency, as he knows, so I am well aware of his constituency. He raises a very important point about satellite offices, but there is also homeworking. We were told that homeworking was a suggestion, but it seems now that the Government want to force people away from working at home into offices—only the Government are now closing these offices, so there do seem to be some mixed messages from the Government. I do thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He makes a very important point, and I hope the Minister will respond to it.

On 16 June, a voluntary redundancy scheme was offered to those staff at the 25 sites identified as being at risk of redundancy. Most of these closures are based on plans originally drawn up in 2016 and announced in 2017, and they are seriously out of date. The sites chosen for closure have, according to the Department, been selected after not just looking at the condition and suitability of buildings, but considering the potential impact of taking work out of locations that score more highly for economic deprivation.

However, many of these closures do not seem to make a lot of sense if their impact on the local economy has been taken into account. Many of these closures are in areas of economic deprivation that can hardly afford to lose good-quality public sector jobs. For example, 29 of the 41 processing sites are in constituencies that have higher than the national average claimant rates, and 18 of the 33 England office closures are in constituencies rated in the top 100 most deprived constituencies in the country. I do not call that levelling up.

My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) has done a survey of businesses near the Springburn site, which is earmarked for closure. It makes interesting reading, and I will take a moment to mention what has been identified in that community impact assessment. There are many businesses that staff at the Springburn site use. The off-sales, where people may perhaps buy a bottle of wine before they go home for the evening, and the Chinese restaurant next door, have concerns about the closure of that office.

The local florist is very concerned because the staff use that service, the local pharmacy has concerns about the closure and the local butcher has made representations about the closure of the Springburn office. That is the very real impact, just in Springburn alone, that such office closures will have on the local economy. It seems—perhaps the Minister can confirm this—that the overriding reason for many of these closures is that the Department for Work and Pensions has itself let the buildings in which it is located fall into major disrepair.

Let me now turn to concerns about the lack of opportunities to redeploy staff. When offices have been closing, Ministers have sought to reassure Members that staff will be redeployed elsewhere in the DWP or in other Departments whenever possible. However, the potential for redeployment elsewhere in the civil service has become less likely following the Government’s announcement on 13 May, through the press and without consultation with staff or trade unions, of their plan to cut 91,000 civil service jobs. The DWP’s decision not to make permanent thousands of staff on fixed-term appointments will, I believe, have come as a blow to staff as well as service delivery.

Under the recent permanency exercise for 12,000 work coaches who joined the Department on fixed-term contracts, only 9,300 have been offered permanent posts. Perhaps the Minister will be able to tell us whether those who are not among the 9,300 will be offered permanent employment in the DWP. Not all the posts have been offered to staff in their preferred workplaces, so they face making significant journeys if they want to continue their employment with the DWP.

The current position is that 1,400 full-time equivalent staff are on a waiting list but are being told that their contracts will end on 30 June 2022. Other FTEs have not been put on the waiting list and have been selected out of the process, despite having joined the DWP on the basis of fair and open competition. If this position does not change, it will lead to significant shortfalls in staff in jobcentres and DWP offices, which face staff reductions of up to 5,000. That will lead to increased workloads, place greater pressure on existing staff, and have a detrimental impact on the services that the public receive from the DWP. We believe that it makes no sense to threaten experienced staff with redundancies when the Department needs more staff, not fewer, to deal with higher workloads. If these closures and job cuts are allowed to go ahead, we will face the absurd prospect of staff being made redundant in one area while new staff are recruited in another to do the same job. That would be both costly and inefficient.

There is also the issue of the buildings. I understand that the Department aims to rationalise its estate, taking into account matters such as hybrid working, making offices fit for the future, and considering the green agenda as it reviews existing offices. I am told that all offices will be looked at, including jobcentres, and that the Department wants to ensure that everyone is working in an office that is of good quality.

The employers seem to believe that much of the DWP’s existing estate is no longer fit for purpose. They will seek to leave sites that are no longer suitable and relocate in new premises in the vicinity where they want to maintain a presence, overhauling some sites and closing others where they believe the DWP no longer needs to be located. They also seem to believe that having fewer, bigger buildings is a more efficient way of running the Department, although, as we heard earlier from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), that will not necessarily always be the case.

However, many of the processing sites are based in buildings from which the DWP will still operate. For example, jobcentres remain in the same location in Doncaster, a site that could easily accommodate the 300-plus staff that the DWP considers to be the minimum number to make a building viable. It will not be possible to sub-let parts of the buildings that it will be vacating, so we question the sense in making experienced staff redundant only for the part of the empty office space that they have vacated to—potentially—become unused. One such example is the Gloucester jobcentre at Cedar House, where only one part of one floor is being vacated and more than 40 staff who are unable to move to Worcester have now been identified as being at risk of redundancy.

The Department and Ministers have claimed that the estate programme is in support of the Government’s commitments on sustainability and net zero carbon. However, these plans are likely to lead to staff having to travel further to work as a result, which in turn would lead to more carbon emissions. No doubt the hon. Member for Strangford would agree with that, given his earlier intervention. It is also worth considering that the DWP is not totally vacating many of the buildings in question but has not said whether it plans to invest in making these buildings more energy-efficient in future. There is little evidence that the DWP is doing anything to improve the rest of its estate. Much of the remaining estate is similarly unsuitable and unsustainable. We also have concerns that not all the buildings the DWP proposes to move staff to will be able to accommodate the numbers.

That brings me to the issue of equality impact assessments. The restrictions on the equality impact assessments have been lifted by the Department and they are now available in the House of Commons Library. However, there are concerns that the equality impact assessments have identified that there will be groups disadvantaged by the closures but said very little about what is being done to mitigate those impacts. The assessments were produced before the one-to-one interviews were conducted with staff facing closure of their offices. It is likely that this process would further confirm the impact on people with protected characteristics.

Women form a significant majority of the DWP’s workforce, on some sites constituting over 75%. There are no tangible mitigations offered in these documents that are likely to compensate for the clear detriment that women face from this office closure programme. People with disabilities, particularly if they impair their ability to travel to work, are likely to face disproportionate impact from office closures as they will have to travel, in some cases by making significant journeys, further to work.

The DWP aims to mitigate the impact on disabled staff by exploring reasonable adjustments and flexible working arrangements. However, this is unlikely to provide sufficient mitigation as the Department is currently not prepared to fully embrace working from home as a redundancy avoidance. I am sure that people in Strangford and other rural parts of these islands have benefited, and Departments have benefited, from staff working from home, particularly those in the DWP, where there was a huge increase in the number of universal credit claimants, for example. DWP staff should be congratulated on the work that they did during that period and should not now have to face their offices being closed and the prospect of redundancy.

In some sites—for example, Hackney—there is a high percentage of staff from ethnic minority backgrounds. The proposed solution inevitably means longer travel at greater expense if they are able to relocate, which is a clear detriment for those impacted. In Blackburn, 36% of staff have been identified as being ethnic minority. Despite this, the DWP’s analysis is that there is no evidence to suggest that they will be negatively impacted. We believe that that analysis is flawed. There are high proportions of part-time workers, who are more likely to be carers, in many of these sites. Again, there is little by way of mitigation offered to those workers.

We are aware that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and the permanent secretary invited a limited number of staff to attend a meeting on 26 May 2022 that they addressed with a presentation of the departmental plan for 2022-25. Once again, the DWP and Ministers have gone to staff without proper engagement with the trade unions. I would suggest that there should be full and proper consultation with the trade unions on the detail of a plan that has huge implications for trade union members, DWP staff and the public they serve. The plan identifies a cut in funding for staffing resources while at the same time introducing more work. It suggests a 12% cut in funding for staff over the three-year period. It also suggests a 16% increase in payments for universal credit, legacy benefits and pensions. This can only mean more work for less staff.

We want to see the Department take a realistic approach to a likely surge in demand for services as the impact of the war in Ukraine and the fall-out from the pandemic devastate the economy. I hope that the Minister will be able to answer many of the points that have been raised on this office closure programme and the concerns that we have for DWP staff, who deliver a great service. I hope that she will be able to confirm that there are no redundancies for those staff.

Civil Service Pay

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Monday 29th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

In raising this important issue, I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, and to my position as chair of the PCS parliamentary group.

May I begin by saying a few words about a personal matter? Today would have been my grandfather’s 99th birthday. My grandfather was a keen supporter of the Scottish National party, and, indeed, voted for it every time it featured on the ballot paper. He was a great influence on me, in ensuring that politics was discussed and debated. I want to pay tribute to my grandpa, and to thank him for everything he did for me. I hope that he is proud of me. He was of course a public sector worker too, and I am sure he would approve of the fact that I am raising the issue of public sector pay this evening.

The covid-19 pandemic has presented the United Kingdom with its biggest national crisis in decades. Workers in the civil service and its related areas have risen to the challenge, and have rightly been lauded as heroes by the Government. Plaudits, however, are not enough. Those workers have faced over a decade of pay freezes and pay caps which have seen their living standards fall by about 20% in real terms.

I am sure we will hear the Minister say that austerity is necessary in order to manage public finances, so let me start by putting that myth to bed. Austerity has done enormous harm to the public finances through the strangulation of living standards, investment and economic growth. It is a policy widely recognised by every reputable economist as a complete and utter failure, and workers in the civil service have been hit particularly hard by that failure. A study by Dr Mark Williams of the University of Surrey in 2018 found that average annual growth in median pay in the civil service had been up to 1.9% below inflation since 2010; that the erosion of pay in the civil service had been greater than in the rest of the public sector and that it had fallen up to 11.4% behind the rest of the public sector since 2010; and that women had been particularly hard hit, with the gender pay gap standing at 12%.

Let us not attempt to explain this away with false comparisons with workers in other sectors, or with references to the national finances and the economy. In my view, Ministers constantly change their position on this issue when it suits them. If borrowing is up, they say that they cannot afford pay rises, and if inflation is going up, they say the same. Despite the squeeze on living standards, private sector wages are going up, but they simply ignore that comparator. The Government need to stop doing this, and start taking responsibility for the welfare of the staff.

I happen to believe that the Government’s approach has been a disaster, particularly for workers on low pay. They cannot claim to want a high-wage civil service while Departments scramble around on an annual basis to find the funding to raise pay levels to the minimum wage. During the pandemic, they laud civil servants as heroes, but their pay policy makes them paupers. There is little doubt that civil servants have become the poor relations when it comes to pay in the public sector, and it is frankly disgraceful that the Government should treat their own workforce in this manner.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on bringing forward this debate. He has a substantial amount of time in which to put forward his case. Does he agree that middle-income families who receive no help from the Government in any shape or form need to have a pay rise to help with the substantial cost of living? Does he also agree that Ministers must be mindful, when rightly uplifting pay levels, that they should increase the cap for child benefit at the same time? If there is one thing they could do to help the middle-class, it would be to increase the cap for child benefit.

[Chris Stephens]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He will know the importance of the role that the civil service has played in Northern Ireland in developing the peace process and helping the Northern Ireland economy. I am sure that, like me, he will pay tribute to civil servants in Northern Ireland for that. I agree with his point, and he will hear later some examples of what the pay freeze has meant for civil servants and the real pressures that they are under. I hope he will intervene again when we come to that.

To add insult to injury, in November 2020 the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced a pay freeze for those workers for 2021. In my view, that was totally unacceptable, and it is high time that the Government properly recognised the contribution that their workforce make to society, particularly in an atmosphere of rising inflation and falling living standards. It was therefore welcome to hear the Chancellor’s recent autumn Budget announcement on the lifting of the pause on public sector pay. That announcement was accompanied by a statement that the normal process of independent reviews and recommendations would be resumed.

However, as the Chancellor should know—I am sure the Minister does—the civil service does not have a pay review body. The question therefore arises as to what mechanisms will be used to determine civil service pay, and I am now going to ask the Minister my first question. Assuming that the Chancellor is sincere about the pause being lifted, can he confirm that there will be no fetters on pay bargaining in the civil service this year, and that there will be no arbitrary cap on pay awards contained within any civil service pay remit guidance?

That brings me to the importance of pay coherence and coherent pay policy. Ever since the financial crash in 2008, and more recently during the pandemic, the Government have insisted that we are all in it together and we must be united in our efforts to overcome the difficulties we face. However, they continue to foster a divisive approach to pay arrangements for their own workforce through the delegated pay system. This needs to change if the Government’s words are not to ring hollow.

Against that backdrop, I highlight PCS’s long-standing objective of securing a return to national bargaining on pay and terms and conditions covering all workers in the civil service and related areas. The delegated bargaining system has created a wholly unacceptable situation where workers doing broadly the same job at broadly the same grade suffer huge disparities in pay. Similar inequities exist in relation to annual leave and working hours arrangements. The delegated system is also unnecessarily costly, time-consuming and inefficient as a result of the replication of the same process across every bargaining unit, where one set of negotiations would suffice.

On this issue, again, the Government always change their position. They claim they cannot direct Departments that have delegated authority on pay, yet they persist in centrally mandating things that Departments must do. For example, they instructed all Departments last year to pay £250 to staff earning below £24,000 a year. It is therefore demonstrably the case that the Government are the single source from which all civil service pay arrangements emanate.

Another example is that, under freedom of information, we know the departmental permanent secretaries got together in February 2018 to agree the joint position across all Departments that there would be a pay rise of 1% to 1.5% for public sector workers. I find it extraordinary that there are 200 separate pay negotiations across UK Government Departments but one pay policy.

In recent years PCS has entered a number of pay reform agreements within Departments that have put right some of the structural discrimination and inequities that exist. In the Home Office, the Department for Transport, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Ministry of Justice, agreements have been reached on pay reform that have secured good negotiated outcomes for all concerned. PCS will rightly be continuing to press for an expansion of this approach, and it should be encouraged by the Government.

Last year, alongside its national pay claim to the then Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, PCS submitted single sectoral pay claims to chief operating officers of parent Departments at delegated level. As a step change towards national bargaining, PCS indicated that it stood ready to engage and to start discussions on how sectoral claims may bring a greater degree of coherence to current pay arrangements.

These proposals sought to reduce the number of bargaining units at sectoral level from 55 to just 13, with scope for further rationalisation over time. Indeed, PCS indicated it was prepared to discuss business cases in respect of workforce reform that may enable funding to be provided to address the structural inequities. Astoundingly, given the Government’s rhetoric on their commitment to efficiency in the public sector, there has been almost no progress on that concrete proposal that would deliver the efficiency they claim to desire.

PCS rightly intends to repeat this approach in 2022, and I seek an assurance that the Government will grasp the opportunity to improve efficiency in pay bargaining across the civil service. Will the Minister confirm that he agrees with the former Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, now the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, when he told the Select Committee on Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs on Thursday 10 December 2020 that

“trying to tackle some of the balkanisation of the process of pay, reward, recruitment and so on—creating what has been called in a vogue phrase “one civil service”—is a very good thing”?

Will the Minister also confirm that he will turn those words into action by engaging in a proper way with the civil service trade unions to achieve greater coherence on pay across the civil service, including a full exploration in all delegated areas of the business case processes for pay reform? In addition, will the Cabinet Office proactively assist delegated areas in developing successful business cases? Will steps be taken to involve the trade unions properly in the task and finish group on pay delegation and related matters, which has been established in Whitehall, but about which the unions have so far neither been informed, nor consulted?

That brings me to the impact of the civil service pay policy. At Prime Minister’s questions on Wednesday 17 November, the Prime Minister said:

“I think that actually the Department for Work and Pensions, under the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey), has performed outstanding service. It has performed miracles. Among the things that it has achieved is helping to get millions of people effectively back into employment, in spite of all the difficulties that we have faced. We now have unemployment running at virtually record lows, in spite of all the difficulties we have faced in this pandemic and as we come out of furlough. That is largely thanks to the work of the DWP.”—[Official Report, 17 November 2021; Vol. 703, c. 579.]

In response to those words of praise, the PCS trade union received more than 50 emails from individual DWP workers about the toll that more than a decade of real-terms pay cuts have taken on them. Some commented that they felt embarrassed to be a government worker, and that they have had to ask friends and family for handouts, and have even turned to food banks. Many are seriously considering leaving the DWP, not because they do not like the job, but because they cannot afford to stay. The following are just some examples of comments received by these government workers for whom the Prime Minister had such high praise. These describe in devastating terms the impact that continued pay restraint is having on civil servants and their families, and what a real pay increase would mean for them.

[Jim Shannon]

One issue I recognise in my constituency, from my weekly or even daily dealings with some workers, is that workers in the DWP do an extremely stressful job. They are looking after the financial affairs of others, and are trying to guide people through the system and help them. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the hard work they do in the DWP must be reflected in the wages they receive?

[Chris Stephens]

Yes, I agree with the hon. Gentleman on that. I am sure he will be fully supportive of, and will recognise, some of the statements from DWP workers who responded to the Prime Minister’s words earlier this month. As one DWP worker put it,

“I have been coming into the office during the whole of the pandemic and I am now totally disheartened and angry that DWP put so little value on the work that the staff do. Now there is a great improvement in the jobs market staff are leaving all over the place... The powers that be have to do the right thing and award us a decent wage rise otherwise there will be very little experienced staff left.

I never thought when I took up this position that I would ever have to send an e-mail like this one letting people know how hard it is to make ends meet in 2021.”

Another said:

“I have worked for DWP for nearly 17 years, those years of which I felt proud to work for my government. Now I feel embarrassed. I work hard, as I always have. I have two children to bring up and can honestly say I’m on the breadline. My family suffer financially, with the rise in cost of fuel bills, food...everything has gone up but our pay....absolutely disgusting. Our government doesn’t look after its own workers but expect us to be loyal and perform an outstanding job...which we always do.”

Another DWP worker, a single parent of two, said:

“My son works as an apprenticeship who receives more wages than me. I have considered using the food bank but not keen in letting them know where I work as ashamed my employers can’t seem to look after their own staff. I have used a food hub before as no details were given. When I receive my wages at the end of the month there is nothing left by the 1st of every month. I am unable to save so no holidays. I am unable to save for Christmas so everything goes on credit card which I ran up nearly £2,000 of debt.

I have worked for your company since 2008 and have never felt the struggle that I do now. Food prices have rocketed and gas and electric have also gone up, how do you expect families working for a government organisation to cope when you don’t give them the wages to reflect the price rises now. I am ashamed to be working for the DWP.”

A DWP worker for almost 20 years said:

“Having a pay freeze has meant that I have to choose between having my heating on or feeding my family. Yes these struggles are real even for the Hard Working Civil Servant!...As a mum I have concerns for my children’s wellbeing when I have to tell them that they cannot go to the after school clubs or go out with their friends because I can’t afford it. They are suffering mentally taking on my worries as well when I tell them that I can’t get them a birthday or Christmas present that they deserve. I have had to take on a 2nd job in the evenings so that I can afford these for my children leaving me less time to be with them. A Civil Servant should not HAVE to work two jobs to pay bills and live…Having a pay rise would alleviate a lot of my worries. It won’t make me rich but my family would be able to live without the worry of deciding to put the heating on, have a substantial healthy meal or afford to put clothes on our backs. We shouldn’t be made to beg for help from various charities.”

A Department for Work and Pensions administrative officer said:

“I’m not quite at the stage of having to choose between heating and eating but I fear that I may be in that position in the near future. Add to that the state of our pensions and I fear that I may never be able to retire. I really don’t know how I am supposed to save towards my retirement on what I am paid…Boris Johnson said a little while ago that employers must pay better wages so when is he going to follow his own advice and pay us a wage that we can actually live on and save for our future?”

Another DWP worker said:

“Personally I am struggling on my pay to make ends meet and really dreading the next Gas/Electric bill. My water rates have also gone up and food prices are just getting ridiculous even though I shop as cheaply as I can using certain low-price supermarkets. I am single and my son lives with me just so I can afford my rent and even that is a struggle…It would be really helpful to receive a decent pay rise given that inflation is certainly rising and before long I will not be able to meet my cost of living. Staff in DWP deserve to be recognised properly for all our hard work during 2020 making sure the people of our nation who urgently needed help with money received it. All staff worked tirelessly to ensure the nation’s needs were met so not are we only helping them back into employment we were there when they weren’t and needed us the most.”

Another administrative officer, who works in the Child Maintenance Service, said:

“I cannot name any colleague who is not feeling that we have been demoralised by the government’s total insensitive behaviour following the Government announcement of a Public Sector pay freeze in November 2020. Did not every DWP employee rise to the challenge during covid ensuring payments for children still were upheld and our colleagues in the benefit office maintaining benefit payments to the people whose lives were thrown into turmoil?...At 61 years of age I am now financially worse off than I have ever been. This morning my gas and electric supplier…sent me a letter stating last year my annual bill for gas and electric was £900.00 and they are increasing my direct debit now because with the rise in energy prices they are estimating it to be £1900.00 this year. Please tell me, ministers who voted for the pay freeze for your loyal civil servant of over 20 years, how am I going to pay this bill?”

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman referred to the Child Maintenance Service, with which my staff and I have regular contact. One problem that we have when we take child maintenance complaints through the system is changes of staff. Why are there changes of staff? Because the remuneration that the civil servants in that department need is not there. Does the hon. Gentleman feel, like me, that a civil servant wage is necessary for staff in that department we are to retain staff and have continuity of staff in respect of complaints—in other words, if we are to ensure that when people make contact, they can speak to the same person they spoke to the first time?

[Chris Stephens]

I could not have put that better myself. The hon. Gentleman, representing his constituents in Northern Ireland, will certainly be aware of the importance of Child Maintenance Service payments, and of payments for those who are not in work and who rely on universal credit. He is right that civil servants have performed miracles, given the huge numbers of people who were on universal credit during the pandemic, and I know he agrees that they should be properly remunerated and given a decent wage rise for their wonderful efforts.

A civil servant of 39 years has said:

“I currently work for the DWP. The Prime Minister and other politicians always give us credit for the work that we do and for how we have coped through the pandemic, delivering our services. We have been called miracle workers. It would be great to see that reflected in a decent pay rise. I am lucky if I get an extra £5 a month every year when we get our pay rise. With the costs of electricity, gas, food, and travel all going up, my family are really struggling to make ends meet.”

A civil servant of 42 years told me:

“I have been in the civil service for 42 years and have never found it so difficult to manage financially. I am still working from home and have to sit in a room with thick clothes and one small electric heater as I cannot afford the heating bills. I am disabled and I cannot see the future at all. After giving my whole working life to the service of others, making a difference to our DWP claimants’ lives, I would appreciate a wage that enables me to keep up with rising living costs. My wage has reduced in real terms for decades now, and with rising costs it will reduce again. I’m 62 with many health conditions and cannot consider taking a second job. I feel really abused and forgotten by my employer who I have shown only loyalty and commitment particularly during the pandemic.”

Another DWP worker has said:

“I have always been proud to work for the Department of Work and Pensions and consider it to be a great place to work. Family and friends expect it to be a well-paid job as we are ‘working for the Government’, so I always feel disloyal when asking to borrow money or not being able to afford a day out or having to buy small presents for birthdays and Christmas. I want my children to know that you reap what you sow, and that if you work hard you see the rewards. Sadly, at this time, I do not feel that this is the case for me.”

A DWP worker who was forced back into the workplace has said:

“With increasing fuel and food prices, I am finding it incredibly hard to survive financially. I am widowed, I live alone and am unable to make ends meet. Furthermore, I have to find £200 a month to travel to work, as face-to-face appointments are now being forced and we are no longer allowed to work from home. It would appear I have to resource my own ‘miracles every month’, whilst being in a very demanding role. Moreover, my health and wellbeing are currently suffering. I am by no means alone, and have many colleagues in the same position.”

A full-time work coach, a mother, has said:

“I am relying on my child benefit to cover electricity and gas for my family next week, until I receive my next pay in almost two weeks’ time. This is due to rocketing energy prices, rocketing fuel costs and childcare costs that I need to cover. My wages are simply not enough to cover all of these costs and I am left struggling every month. I have been with the Department since 2006 and have never known it to be this bad.”

Another employee in the Child Maintenance Service has said:

“My wage has dropped to just above the minimum wage and my workload complexity has increased. I’m worried sick about the basics: affording heating; paying travelling-to-work costs; and trying to pay the overdraft. In the meantime, as a frontline worker, I have to stay positive and professional whilst dealing with the emotional and financial issues of the public. I don’t treat the public with platitudes the way that I am by successive Governments.”

As the hon. Member for Strangford made clear, it is an emotional job. These staff have to deal with many of the public’s emotional and financial issues. That, to me, says it all when it comes to the question of why a pay rise is necessary.

An administrative officer in DWP has told me:

“I joined DWP last year during the first wave of the covid-19 pandemic and received a salary of £21,262. My monthly salary is £1,442.65. My monthly expenses including rent and bills is £1,265, leaving me with less than £180 to cover my work travel and food expenses.”

Another child maintenance officer—for over 23 years—said:

“I am stuck on an income that doesn’t even cover my bills which are rising every year. Is anyone going to help the staff who have been loyal to the Child Maintenance Service for years? I actually love my job, but am so disappointed with the pay. We deserve more.”

A civil servant who joined DWP in 2016, who said that they were paid significantly higher in their previous Department, has said:

“I am stuck on an income that doesn’t even cover my bills which are rising every year. Is anyone going to help the staff who have been loyal…for years? I…love my job but am so disappointed with the pay, we deserve more.”

A DWP worker who is nearing retirement age says:

“I am retiring in May 2022 so the pay freeze has seriously affected my pension. I will be on a lower pension for ever and ever and there’s no compensation. I really have lost out as have a lot of my colleagues in the same situation.”

Another DWP worker says:

“I am struggling to keep a roof over my head, feed and clothe my daughter and have not bought clothes/shoes for myself in over a year. Without support of family would honestly be in real state. My 75 year old father supports me from his pension which is not great either.”

A work coach says:

“As a Work Coach we have put ourselves and our loved ones at risk throughout the entire pandemic by interacting with many customers to ensuring they received the upmost support…Myself and my colleagues have helped countless people transition from the national lockdown and from losing their jobs into finding new light in a brand new sector of work. The DWP have worked long hours to ensure our customers are getting the support they need. We ourselves sacrificed time with our loved ones to ensure our Nation got back to its once thriving self and all we have received was a thank you and a pat on the back! Actions speak louder than words and never more so in our current climate…Needless to say the world around us is increasing in price dramatically. A pay rise would reflect the rise in living costs and allow us to keep up with the rapidly increasing inflation.”

Those are just some examples from one Government Department, but civil and public servants are experiencing the same difficulties right across Government services. Employers are experiencing recruitment and retention problems because of this, and staff continue to face very real hardship. There is also a clear economic case to end pay restraints and give a real-terms increase to civil servants. The benefits of a real-terms increase would outweigh the costs. Before the pandemic, about 70p in every £1 of public money ended up in the private sector economy, whether in grants, contracts or, crucially, the wages of public sector workers. The pandemic can only have increased that 70p figure.

In my experience, workers and civil servants do not have Cayman Islands accounts to put their wages in, and neither do they place their wages in a shoe box and hide it under their beds. No, they spend their money in the private sector economy—in the high street and the hospitality sector, buying additional presents for their family or spending more putting their clothes in for dry cleaning. Not only do they keep the economic wheels of the country going in their work; they do so with their hard-earned wages.

The realities of the examples provided by those who work in the civil service, the compelling moral case and the undeniable economic case can only begin to be rectified by funding for real-terms pay increases across the civil service and related areas for this coming year. I therefore look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.

Summer Adjournment

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure, as always, to lead for the SNP in these debates that are uncharitably referred to as the whinge-fest. I could not disagree more. We have had a quality debate covering a number of important issues.

The hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) kicked off with a football theme that many continued through the debate, and I agree with what was said about the shocking situation in Bury. He, of course, supports England’s greatest football team, Newcastle United football club, and he was right to raise issues around the ownership of football clubs. I want to see fan ownership extended across these islands.

At the previous Adjournment debate, I said that I hoped the tartan army could be at Wembley in June. I was delighted to see that happen and to see them cheering on the boys, who were the only team not to concede a goal against England.

There are many constitutional debates, and some people seem to suggest that there is deadlock between those who support Scottish independence and those who do not. There is also the fact that the Government seem unwilling to grant us a referendum. I have an alternative idea: if they are not willing to give us a referendum to decide the issue, perhaps they could give us a penalty shoot-out. Scotland’s record at penalty shoot-outs is rather good—we managed to qualify for the Euros by winning one—and of course England’s is perhaps somewhat different. In fact, let us not sugar-coat it—it is as poor as the trains going to and from Southend that we regularly hear about from the hon. Member for Southend West (Sir David Amess). Perhaps we could do that.

I do want to make a serious point. It was rather strange and disturbing that some Cabinet Ministers found themselves at the wrong end of a culture war in having a go at the England football team. In all seriousness, it is hard not to like this particular team, who are a credit to themselves and to England. The racism that England players got after the final was completely and utterly despicable and should be condemned by every Member of this House.

We are obviously here to hold the Government to account and a number of Members have raised the Building Safety Bill, with the hon. Member for Ipswich (Tom Hunt) raising a rather shocking example, but I am pleased that the Government have listened to those of us who represent companies such as Bell Building Projects Ltd, which specialises in cladding and is struggling to get the appropriate indemnity insurance to carry out its work. The Government seem to have moved substantially, with a Government-sponsored scheme.

I agree with many of the hon. Members who raised the issue of sick pay. I think the Government will need to revisit this as the low level of sick pay was responsible for many workers having to decide whether to turn up to work or self-isolate. I was particularly pleased to hear a number of Members across the House mention poverty and the proposed cut of the £20 universal credit uplift. This Parliament will need to debate that in September and I hope the Government will use the recess to rethink, because new analysis that will be published by the Independent Food Aid Network and Feeding Britain shows that in 2020 the relative poverty rate for individuals in a family where someone is disabled was as high as 31%, so there is a lot of work to do. I thank the Members, particularly the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker), who raised the issue of holiday hunger, and thank organisations in Glasgow South West—Drumoyne Community Council, Crookston Community Group, and G53 Together—for combating holiday hunger. The sad fact is that when MPs are on recess—and it is a recess—there are children suffering from holiday hunger. I will be particularly delighted to see the Threehills community supermarket project in the Glasgow South West constituency take place, the first community supermarket project in Scotland.

I hope that in the next few weeks the Government will come to their senses and resolve the industrial action disputes in the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency. It is frankly incredible and a disgrace that ministerial interference stopped a proposed resolution to that between DVLA officials and the Public and Commercial Services union, and the Government need to apologise for that. I hear that yesterday’s Transport Committee sitting was very interesting indeed.

You gave me a wee row in relation to my face mask, Madam Deputy Speaker, but we should recognise this week that the 1950s-born women have got something of a result and I want to pay tribute to the 1950s-born women across these islands who have been campaigning on this issue, particularly the WASPI Glasgow and Lanarkshire group, which does excellent campaigning work; I especially congratulate Rosie Dixon and Kathy McDonald who lead those women superbly.

I hope we will not see a culture or any other sort of war between the Home Office and the city of Glasgow. I was proud to be at Kenmure street in Pollokshields exercising my right to freedom of peaceful assembly to ensure that the Home Office did not take away a fellow Glaswegian whose only crime seems to be that he fell off the Home Office’s radar. This was not a criminal or a terrorist; this was someone who just happened to fall off the radar. That was a completely unacceptable way of dealing with that issue.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way on the issue of freedom?

[Chris Stephens]

Yes, on the issue of freedom of peaceful assembly.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. One of my great concerns has been the 309 million Christians across the world who are facing extreme levels of persecution and discrimination for their faith. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that issue should be at the core of what we in this House are trying to sort out?

[Chris Stephens]

Yes I do, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for the regular work he does in highlighting those issues.

As I said, this recess is not a holiday but a recess and I pay tribute to the parliamentary staff and constituency office staff of every single Member of this House; they have worked extremely hard. I pay particular tribute to Justina, Greg, Dominique, Keith, Scott, Tony and the great Roza Salih who leads the Glasgow South West team superbly, and I hope that all hon. Members of the House will have a good summer.

Christmas Adjournment

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Thursday 17th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

Let me join others, Mr Deputy Speaker, in wishing you and all parliamentary staff a good and restful Christmas.

This has been an excellent debate. I am becoming a veteran of these events. I was particularly struck by the number of Members who raised international issues, including issues of religious persecution. I, for one, believe that we should always discuss and raise these matters in this House.

A large number of topics were dealt with, some of great importance. We heard about digital exclusion, which we will have to deal with, the fact that Remembrance Day was not quite the occasion that it usually is, and of course Southend’s city status. Let me just say to the hon. Member for Southend West (Sir David Amess) that I am also supportive of this, but I hope that in 2021 we can reinstate flights from Southend to Glasgow. How good would that be? This year there was no mention of the rail service to Southend, so I do not know if it has improved, but perhaps it would be a good 2021 for the good people of Southend if we could reinstate flights from Southend to the centre of the universe.

The debate was of course dominated by covid. A number of hon. Members have said that it is not easy, and it is not. It is not easy for anybody. I was particularly pleased earlier today when the Secretary of State said in answer to my question that it is vital that we deal with the misinformation about the vaccine. We know that people have been deliberately targeted with misinformation, and it is important to deal with that.

Let us hope that the vaccine is rolled out, if for no other reason than to see the tartan army descend on Wembley stadium for the Euro championships and what I am sure will be an easy group game for Scotland.

[Jim Shannon]

Archie Gemmill.

[Chris Stephens]

The hon. Gentleman mentions Archie Gemmill. When I listened to the hon. Member for Ipswich (Tom Hunt), I was struck by the fact that there are none of those great Scottish players playing for Ipswich any more, like John Wark or George Burley. Perhaps there could be more Scottish signings that will raise Ipswich back to its rightful place in English football.

I am pleased that hon. Members have joined in a tradition, which I think I started, of praising, thanking and congratulating our constituency office staff. I want to thank Dominique, Christina, Greg, Keith, Scott, Tony and the great Roza Salih in the Glasgow South West office. I am quite clear that they are the best constituency office staff in these islands. Every single constituency office has had to deal with unprecedented pressures in the last year, and they have all been a credit not just to hon. Members of this House but to themselves.

I want to thank some constituency organisations for the work that they have done: G53 Together, Govan HELP, the Moogety food project, the Ridgeway Dairy with Drumoyne Community Council, the Trussell Trust and the Turf Youth Project. I particularly thank Feeding Britain, which invested £90,000 in the constituency this year on various projects.

Coming back to covid, there are a number of things that the Government will have to look at, and I hope that they will make permanent the £20 uplift in universal credit. That will help millions of people in this country. I help that they will also look at the recommendations of the Select Committee on Work and Pensions about replacing advances with non-repayable grants. That would help a number of people. It has been sad that a number of deductions—that is, the money that the DWP has been taking back—has increased during the covid crisis. That does not do the Department credit.

As many Members have said, I hope that the Government will find some solution to the 3 million excluded who do not receive Government support. It is important that there are Members across the House who believe that that needs to be done.

A number of hon. Members correctly praised public sector workers for their role during the covid crisis. I will be campaigning this year to ensure that there is no pay freeze for public sector workers. It is morally unjust and economically unsound. When public sector workers get their wages, they spend them in the private sector economy. If we are serious about helping the private sector along, I simply cannot fathom how a public sector pay freeze will help.

We also need to find a solution for the 1950s-born women. I know that hon. Members across the House see that injustice, which needs to be taken away. We need an employment Bill, which the Government have been promising for years, so that we can discuss issues about zero-hours contracts, which are prevalent in the hospitality sector. We need to deal with those issues.

I hope that the Government will start to bring issues to this place. In particular, the new immigration rules should have been brought to this Chamber for debate and discussion, as should the pilot that the Government have put in place for asylum seeker interviews. The Home Office has decided, without any reference to this Chamber, to allow Serco to carry out those interviews.

It would not be a speech from me without touching on one or two constitutional issues—[Laughter.] Just one or two. Today, we have another poll on Scottish independence—the 17th consecutive poll—showing yes ahead and that support for the Union is now at its lowest level. I want to thank every single Government Back Bencher for their part in that campaign.

Of course, other Members have mentioned Brexit. We do not know what kind of Brexit it will be, and it is quite ludicrous that we are going into recess today not knowing whether we are coming back next week or the week after. We are in a position of deal or no deal. I am half expecting Noel Edmonds to occupy the Front Bench with a telephone, seeing what the banker is going to come up with. It really is quite a shameful position. It just leaves me to say this. It is an old song: “We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when, but I’m sure we’ll meet again, some sunny day.”

Covid-19: Asylum Seeker Services in Glasgow

Debate between Jim Shannon and Chris Stephens

Wednesday 17th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens]

I certainly agree with that. Many of the asylum seeker services are actually provided by the charities. The support that they provide to asylum seekers is often against Home Office policies, and I will come on to that later.

Let me be clear that I am being not trite, but deadly serious. This increase was an insult to desperate people and children and to add to the injury officials quite callously did not make that data-driven decision until after lockdown, rather than before it. I urge the Minister to look beyond the data and show a bit of leadership. Perhaps he should give Marcus Rashford a call, because he can give Government some tips, as he told the Prime Minister, about real life, about children and parents going hungry, about how terrified mums and dads are about how their child will keep up at school when they go back to blended learning in August or September because, as we know, there is no wi-fi in asylum accommodation. There is no digital connectivity and no computer for the children to do their homework on. That is the real world.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[Chris Stephens]

It would not be an Adjournment debate without the hon. Gentleman, and, for the benefit of his many Twitter fans, I give way to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon).

[Jim Shannon]

What a really good issue this is. I have had similar correspondence in my constituency, and Refugee Action is one of the charities that have contacted me as well. It is difficult for people in our asylum system to buy food and other essentials in sufficient quantity to minimise trips or to prepare for self-isolation, and it is incredibly hard to make a choice between food and medicine. Does hon. Gentleman agree that the Minister must respond in a way that ensures that asylum seekers who are in a crisis get the financial assistance they need at this time? That is why I support the hon. Gentleman.