Free Cash Withdrawals

Debate between Jim Shannon and Andrea Leadsom

Monday 8th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrea Leadsom)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) on securing this debate on an incredibly important matter. She has presented her case very eloquently.

I assure the House that this Government are committed to helping ensure the most vulnerable people in society have access to the banking services they need. That is why we took action to tackle payday loans, placing a duty on the Financial Conduct Authority to impose a cost cap. The Treasury, as widely reported, has been in discussions with the banks on improving the minimum standards for basic bank accounts. Only a few weeks ago, I hosted a round-table meeting with senior executives from the UK’s major banks. As part of that discussion, I set industry the challenge of coming up with new and innovative ways in which ATMs can be used to offer a wider range of banking services to consumers. I look forward to hearing back from the banks later this month. One of the most fundamental banking services—the subject that my hon. Friend has raised—is the ability of customers to be able to withdraw their own money conveniently, and free, at ATMs.

Forty-four years ago, the Enfield town branch of Barclays bank opened the first ever automated cash machine in the world—another first for the British retail banking industry. Since then, the ATM sector in the UK has been in a state of constant progress. The number of cash machines has grown from 36,000 in 2001 to over 67,000 this year, making cash far more accessible to customers. The number of free-to-use ATMs is at an all-time high, and over 97% of all ATM cash withdrawals by UK cardholders are made free of charge. Pay-to-use machines now account for only 3% of the total volume of transactions.

It is important to recognise that, in areas with greater need for free-to-use ATMs, LINK—the network that connects the UK’s ATM machines—provides subsidies to ATM providers to allow them to offer services under its financial inclusion programme. The LINK scheme is unique in Europe: it allows banks and building societies to give their customers access to cash from any ATM across the UK, no matter which bank they hold an account with. That gives customers universal access to their cash without the need to walk into a bank. Across much of the rest of Europe, pay-to-use machines are the norm and the cost of withdrawing cash is not transparent. By contrast, as I have said, the vast majority of machines in the UK are free to use, and those that are not must be very transparent with their pricing, as per LINK rules, so ATM customers typically get a good deal in the UK.

As my hon. Friend has pointed out, however, some cash machines do charge customers for the withdrawal of cash. These machines are typically operated by independent, non-bank providers, which install ATMs in areas with a low footfall and that tend to be in rural or less well-off communities where banks feel it is not commercially viable to operate a free-to-use machine. The fees they charge need to be completely transparent prior to the customer withdrawing cash, and ensuring that the service is commercially viable is the reason for independent ATM machines charging those fees. If independent ATMs could not charge, they might withdraw entirely from these sites, which would risk leaving the rural and more vulnerable communities with reduced access to cash.

I completely understand, however, the concerns of my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) regarding pay-to-use machines in less well-off communities. I am well aware that it is precisely in those disadvantaged communities that people most need affordable cash machines nearby without having to take public transport several miles to use one. Many hon. Members have made compelling cases for areas in their own constituencies. The right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) has made representations to me in the past.

I am pleased to inform hon. Members that a programme of work is under way to address exactly that issue. LINK has developed the financial inclusion programme, which sets up free-to-use ATM machines in areas where they are most needed. The programme provides subsidies of £1 million per annum to ATM operators to allow them to operate commercially viable free-to-use ATMs. The cost of this subsidy is shared out among LINK members. Through the programme, 1,400 target areas, mainly in rural and less well-off places, have access to an industry-subsidised ATM. In the remaining difficult locations, such as areas with low population or those with a lack of suitable installation sites, LINK has launched specific, individual projects to address that and reports regularly to the Government on progress.

[Jim Shannon]

ATMs could be set up in post offices, because there are lots of them. There have been some discussions about this issue with the banks in Northern Ireland. Has the Minister given any consideration to setting up ATMs in post offices, where they would be accessible for people in rural communities?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that very good point. In fact, precisely one of the challenges I gave to the banks during my recent round table with them was to look at what more they could do to put ATMs in easy to access sites such as post offices and supermarkets.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West is quite right to question the fairness of pay-to-use machines in less well-off areas. However, where customers feel that an area lacks a free-to-use ATM, LINK has made a commitment to assess that location for the suitability of establishing one. As the number of target sites reduces, LINK also has a programme of identifying new segments of consumers for whom there may be access issues. LINK is working with Age UK and Toynbee Hall on specific projects, such as the “Older old” and “Deprived inner-city housing estates” projects, which aim further to improve access to cash for those more vulnerable members of society.

My hon. Friend’s mentioned that Lockleaze in Bristol North West has just one pay-to-use cash machine for 10,000 people. I have looked into the case, and I agree that it is absolutely unacceptable. My officials have contacted LINK, and I am pleased to say that, as she pointed out, it has committed to bringing the area into the scope of its financial inclusion programme. LINK has offered to visit the area to understand any further issues that her constituents are facing in accessing cash and locating free-to-use ATMs in the area.

In conclusion, I believe that the ATM sector is currently working well for consumers. The number of pay-to-use machines is low—only 3% of transactions are made from those ATMs—and the availability of free-to-use machines continues to rise. LINK membership rules offer consumer protection, particularly with regard to transparency of fees. The industry is taking action. For communities that have a greater need for free-to-use machines, LINK is setting them up in many places, and it is looking at how it can help segments of society that currently have difficulties.

I again thank my hon. Friend for raising this important issue and for bringing it to the attention of the House. I assure her that the Government and I will stay closely involved in this issue.

Question put and agreed to.

Local Government and Faith Communities

Debate between Jim Shannon and Andrea Leadsom

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on bringing this matter to the House for consideration; it is a very important issue. Although the report she mentioned does not refer to Northern Ireland, I think that many of the things that she referred to apply to Northern Ireland. We have CAP in my constituency: it started just over a year ago and it is doing great work. There are also food banks, set up by Christian organisations, that are doing great work. Does she think that such activity, which involves people working for food banks and organisations such as CAP, and helping the less well-off, is a very practical show of Christian beliefs?

[Andrea Leadsom]

Yes. The hon. Gentleman is, of course, quite right that CAP and other faith-based groups work right across the United Kingdom, and they help people from all backgrounds—people of faith and people of no faith. Absolutely no distinction is made between people; everyone benefits from the services. However, the reason that such groups are set up is because people of faith want to help the needy. He specifically mentioned food banks, which do a superb job across the country, and many of them are led and supported by people of faith.

A charity closer to home that I fully support, and of which my husband is a trustee, is the Northampton Hope Centre. It was set up in 1974 by a Christian gentleman who handed out food to rough sleepers—food that he had paid for himself. As more volunteers began to help him, the borough council began to provide small grants to help to pay for the food. By 1984, there were 30 volunteers—mainly Christians—and a daily food service for rough sleepers was provided all year round. In 2006, the charity officially took the name of the Hope Centre to reflect its broader range of support and services, which now included providing training and activities alongside food, showers and clothing. In 2008, the Northampton Hope Centre won the Queen’s golden jubilee award for voluntary services to the community.

Today, the Hope Centre helps those suffering from drug or alcohol addiction, mental illness, crippling debt and family disintegration. It offers a wide range of support, including food, clothing, showers, shelter, social activities, therapeutic workshops and skills development. It aims to encourage its users to recover their independence. Each user’s journey is individual and the Hope Centre aims to support each person at their own pace while creating or finding pathways for people who have all but given up hope of a better future.

The centre’s budget this year is in the region of £400,000, of which only £15,000 will come from public funding. If any Members are around this Friday and find themselves with a spare hour in Northampton, I urge them to pop down to the Hope Centre, where Terry Waite will launch the new “hope café”. One of Northampton’s most exciting initiatives in recent years is the establishment of a street pastor service, which puts compassionate people of faith in the town centre on Friday and Saturday nights, offering practical help to often vulnerable people. I blogged about this in 2006, under the heading “Flip-flops and lollipops”, because, as it was described to me, the street pastors would go out and help young people who were often extraordinarily drunk, providing lollipops to the young men, who would rather suck a lollipop than get in a fight, and flip-flops to the young women, who often lost their high heels on their first steps on the journey of inebriation. It is a practical service that offers sound support and counselling.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I agree with my hon. Friend, who makes a good point. It is right to pay tribute to the street pastors, who form a valuable support group for the police on a Saturday night when, too often, trouble in our streets is common.

I set up a project in 2006 with Richard Johnson, a Christian, who runs a fantastic youth centre in Uganda. He and I set up links between Northamptonshire and Ugandan schools and now each year groups of students from Northamptonshire travel to Uganda for a conference with Ugandan students. They spend their week based at the Discovery Centre in Jinja, Uganda. That has been an astonishing success, building new friendships between teachers and pupils across the miles, and new opportunities for the schools in both countries to take part in a huge range of different cultural activities.

All faith groups, whether they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, or any other, set great store by their support for their communities. It is important that we in Parliament ensure that their voices are heard. Over the years, over-sensitivity to cultural issues and a growing, muscular secularism has meant that the amazing work done by people of faith, often for the most vulnerable, goes unnoticed. Of course, people of faith are not doing this in return for gratitude or recognition, but we should make space in public life for those of faith.

I support many of the report’s recommendations and call for three specific things. First, I should like local authorities deliberately to work more closely with faith groups, taking advantage of the support they bring to local communities, to attempt to simplify processes and jargon, and share best practice between local authorities. Secondly, I should like local authorities to look from a plural rather than a secular perspective at the services faith groups offer in their communities. The leader of Churches Together in Northampton, Ted Hale, tells me that he and many others work for non-Christian organisations such as Arthritis Care and Age UK, and so on. It is often people of faith who run such organisations.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady has been gracious in accepting interventions. In my constituency, an organisation called Youth Link Northern Ireland, which is based in local churches right across the religious strata, funds work to help people who have problems with drug abuse and alcohol addiction. Does she think that the Government, and local government in particular, should work in partnership with such organisations to address the critical issues that many people do not want to bother with at all?

Progressive Supranuclear Palsy

Debate between Jim Shannon and Andrea Leadsom

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on bringing this very important matter to Westminster Hall. Does she agree—I suspect that she does—that physio and aids should be made available at an early stage of diagnosis, so that those in the last few years of this debilitating disease have a quality of life and a relationship with their families at a time when they need it most?

[Andrea Leadsom]

The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely good point. He raises issues that I want to come on to in terms of calls to action for the Minister. Sadly, the speed of degeneration of PSP sufferers often means that the need for extra resources quite rapidly increases, so it is important that the right care pathway is put in place.

The association is developing a UK-wide research network to allow researchers to share their knowledge, experience and data from their studies into the condition and to increase the number of people with PSP that individual researchers can have contact with.

In 2011, the association commissioned a UK-wide needs mapping exercise for people with PSP and their carers. The results highlighted that the nature and rapidity of PSP means that the needs of those living with the condition are very specific. For example, the palliative care that would be deemed to be required in the late stages of many conditions or at the end of life may very well be required for someone with PSP for almost half of the time that they live with the condition. The rapid progression of the disease and often early onset of communication and cognitive problems have a huge impact. Advance decision making on end-of-life issues needs to take place much earlier with PSP than with many other conditions.

The ongoing needs of a sufferer are ever-changing, and so is their need to see a range of health and social care professionals who can provide the right care, support and equipment at the right time. It is not easy for the carers of people with PSP who face equally difficult challenges trying to navigate their way through the labyrinth of health and social care services and to keep up with the pace of the disease and the ever-changing needs of those for whom they are caring.

As a charity, the PSP Association is indebted to other organisations such as the Neurological Alliance and Carers UK for championing the needs of carers at every level. Although the work of such organisations is critical, it should not replace the needs of carers also being addressed by the statutory services.

In April this year, we will see the introduction of clinical commissioning groups, which will hold the purse strings for our local health services and will be responsible for commissioning the health and social care services for their local population. We are awaiting the imminent appointment of the national clinical director responsible for championing patient involvement and improvement to neurological services in England. Those reforms of our health and social care services are very much welcomed by the PSP Association, but with a caveat, which is that it is essential that people with PSP, their carers and other people living with similar neurological conditions have a voice locally.

The PSP Association has developed a care pathway guide for PSP that outlines the standards of care and support that sufferers will need from diagnosis onwards. It is intended to inform and educate health commissioners and social care professionals to ensure that people with PSP are made as comfortable as possible. Care must also be co-ordinated, as it is essential that it involves a multidisciplinary approach and a regular assessment of the patient’s ongoing needs. That is not only about commissioning services locally, but about saving the NHS funds used in unnecessary emergency admissions to hospitals.

A recent report by the National Audit Office found that the number of emergency neurological admissions to hospital had doubled since 2005. Between 2004-05 and 2009-10, the number of neurological emergency admissions increased by 32% compared with a 17% increase in general emergency admissions over the same period. As well as putting a significant strain on the NHS, that has a severe impact on the well-being of patients and their families. The PSP Association is proactive in helping to predict the care needs of patients in the future. That is vital in reducing emergency hospital admissions with increased awareness of PSP.

As MPs representing our constituents, we need to support neurological charities such as the PSP Association and ensure that people suffering from neurological conditions are fully understood and considered in the proposals for health and social care reform and in the commissioning of services locally and nationally. Access to timely, co-ordinated care and improved integration across health and social care services should be seen as a priority, to enable quality of life for people with PSP and those who care for them.

I should be grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister if he responded on four key points. First, how are people with PSP and other rare neurological conditions being considered in the proposals for health and social care reforms? Secondly, what support is available not only to the individual, but to the carer, especially as the needs of PSP sufferers are quite specific in terms of palliative care? Thirdly, what education and training is given to health and social care professionals, so that they are aware of the specific condition and can respond to the needs of sufferers and their carers? Finally, what can be done to ensure that more research into PSP is carried out, so that the diagnosis is quicker and more accurate?

I am grateful to the Minister for being here today. I look forward to his response and, I hope, the answers to some of those questions.

Early Intervention

Debate between Jim Shannon and Andrea Leadsom

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank my hon. Friend for that point, and I will come to it later.

If someone does not love their baby, and they do not bond properly with him in those first two crucial years, they are literally impairing their capacity to lead a normal life. The sad truth is that research shows that 40% of children in Britain are not securely attached by the age of five. That does not mean that they all go on to become criminals, psychopaths, sociopaths, paedophiles or drug addicts, but it does mean that their capacity to deal with the things life throws at them and the problems they will encounter is much lessened. They are less likely to be able to cope with holding down a job, making friends, and forming and keeping a relationship. At the extreme end, a baby will have been severely neglected or abused, and that is where we will find sociopaths. Sociopaths are not born, but made by their earliest experiences in the first two years of life.

Before we all go out and throw up our hands in despair, I want to make the case that there is a huge amount that can be done. Things do not have to be like this. If we as a society committed to making the very earliest intervention to provide the support needed for families, we could do so much in the first two years of life, when the baby’s brain has the ability to reach its full potential. We could turn things around and do great things.

The Oxford Parent Infant Project—a charity that I chaired for nine years, and of which I have been a trustee for 12 years—does precisely that work in Oxfordshire. In the past few months, I have launched a sister charity, the Northamptonshire Parent Infant Project, to do the same work. We work together with families—normally the mum, but it can be the dad or the grandparents—and the baby to help the carers understand, first, their own feelings about caring and parenting, and, secondly, the baby’s needs. We literally enable the adult to love the baby; we reintroduce them to each other, with astonishing results.

When Oxpip and Norpip get their referrals, the parents are desperate—they are about to commit suicide, infanticide or both. We have referrals from health workers, midwives and social services, which, in Oxfordshire, certainly often use Oxpip as their emergency service. If they have tried everything else, they will come to us to see what we can do. As I said, the results have been astonishing. An enormous amount can be done, therefore, to reverse this cycle of deprivation. The problem is that so often a failure to attach in those early years is the result of the parents’ own terribly unhappy lives.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In Northern Ireland, an organisation called Home Start—it probably covers the whole of the United Kingdom—provides that level of support when it is needed most. I know of many ladies in my constituency and across the whole of Northern Ireland who benefited greatly from Home Start. Is that an example of what we need to do everywhere in the United Kingdom?

[Andrea Leadsom]

I completely agree that Home Start does some excellent work—in my constituency, it is actually based directly below Norpip—and we work together with it. But I am talking about psycho-therapeutic support for the most difficult early relationships. Often it is parents’ own unhappy lives that give them problems bonding with their babies.

Independent Financial Advisers (Regulation)

Debate between Jim Shannon and Andrea Leadsom

Monday 29th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I have the same concerns.

It is estimated that it takes 400 hours to do the exams. That is approximately 10 weeks when people do not have the opportunity to earn money or do what they normally do. Advisers in Strangford have painted a different picture to that painted by the retail distribution review. Most of the customers of advisers in my constituency are working class. I have been informed by many financial advisers that they have spent time with people without receiving any financial reward—we have heard that from hon. Members on both sides of the House tonight.

One adviser offered advice to a female client who was about to go through a separation. She was stressed out about her finances, but the adviser spent a lot of his time on the phone to her. For all his work, he earned not a penny. The road that the regulator is pushing advisers down will mean that they will be unable to afford time if they do not get paid. Will we therefore end up with people being unable to afford sound financial advice, exactly as the hon. Gentleman said?

I represent a rural area, as do many hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb). We are aware how the proposals will affect and impact on people in rural areas. Consumers will suffer substantial and unprecedented detriment owing to the unintended consequences of the proposals. Would it not be wiser or better to protect grandparent rights, as at least two or three hon. Members have intimated? Doing so would give the protection that many need. A substantial portion of the adviser population will leave the industry. Various surveys have been conducted and although there is no consensus on the figures, it is obvious that adviser numbers will fall drastically.

One of my constituents in Strangford wrote:

“I am 54 years of age…the heavy regulation is taking its toll. I am ¾ of the way through the new exam structure. Many advisers are finding it impossible to pass these exams as many are over 55 and are finding the stress unbearable.”

Another hon. Member referred to a 63-year-old adviser for whom contemplating exams will put him away in the head. The result will be anxiety, depression and stress. My constituent predicted a drastic fall over the next three years in the number of independent financial advisers. He continued:

“Advisers are finding the regulations unbearable, and many are having problems due to”

what is taking place. He made a statement that I found moving and honest:

“We are all starting to swallow the negativity thrown at us by the regulator over the past numbers of years, which is trying to kill us off”.

Now IFAs are facing another obstacle and barrier. We cannot afford for any businesses to be lost, especially ones that will take the financial burden off the state by enabling people to supplement their pensions and not need state aid and benefit. They are the people in my constituency and across Northern Ireland on whose behalf I wish to speak.

Robin Stoakley, head of intermediary business at Schroders, said:

“I do see up to 30 per cent of the IFA market leaving”.

How on earth could we support something that would take away 30% of the IFA market? Furthermore, Aviva UK Life marketing director, David Barral, said the firm predicts that by 2013, IFA numbers will fall to 10,000, leaving middle market consumers unserviced.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that at a time when we desperately need small and medium-sized enterprises to be increasing their activity, not reducing it dramatically, this is a disastrous thing to be happening?

[Jim Shannon]

I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. Lady. The one great thing about tonight’s debate is that we have, I think, a united front—if that is the way to put it. All the parties are in agreement, which is good news.

Time does not permit me to go through the long list of people in the industry agreeing with the prediction of a sharp decline in the number of advisers owing to these proposals. However, it is clear that there is a definite problem with these regulations and their impact on IFAs. If the adviser population falls by about a third, as predicted, it will leave millions of consumers without an adviser. Some will migrate to other advisers—we understand that—but a great many will be left without a trusted source of advice. The UK currently suffers from the largest saving retirement and protection gaps in its history, and it is essential that these gaps and the current over-reliance on the state are reduced. I think that many in the House are prepared to accept that.

The UK can ill afford to lose 10,000 advisers. Such a catastrophe would intensify the existing problems. The UK’s leading consumer champion, Martin Lewis, of Money Saving Expert, remarked:

“There’s a worrying possibility that the FSA is about to kill off”—

his words—

“independent financial advice in the UK for all but the wealthy. I do hope I’m wrong. I’m not convinced most people will want to pay for advice. The commission route has the advantage that you don’t pay a fee each and every time you want information; you can go without the worry of laying out cash.”

That is an expert’s opinion.

I speak not only for the financial advisers in my area who have been forced out of their jobs, but for the wee man and the wee woman who have asked me to come here and fight their case for them. I also stand for the thousands of people in my constituency who benefit from the current system. People who are forced to pay for all advice offered will be unable to invest much, and therefore will not invest or, worse, will invest somewhere they should not, with dire consequences. I am aware that it is the FSA that is making these recommendations, and I ask the Minister to do the honourable thing and support the alternative proposals put forward. They would benefit the larger advisers, as the FSA is trying to do. However, we also have to look after those disadvantaged consumers, so I urge the House to support them.