Rural Phone and Broadband Connectivity

Debate between Jesse Norman and Nigel Evans

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

I invite colleagues across the House to engage in our new sport: the four Yorkshiremen of mobile coverage. If anyone can beat my hon. Friend’s figures, he or she is welcome to intervene.

In the previous debate, I focused on the basic unfairness of bad coverage and connectivity, and on its disastrous economic and social effect. I highlighted the situation at Kingstone surgery, which had such a bad signal that without urgent repairs it was going to be unable to upgrade its software, potentially affecting 4,200 patients in a matter of weeks. I have since spoken to Herefordshire council and met BT again. I am delighted to inform the House that obstacles have been overcome and that the surgery is scheduled to receive a fast broadband service on 18 February, just in time for its upgrade.

[Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend understand the frustration of the residents of Gisburn and of Councillor Richard Sherras? The farmers who live in the small rural village of Gisburn have been told to diversify—bed and breakfasts, working from home and so on—but broadband connectivity is so bad that the chances of even watching something on BBC iPlayer is non-existent, never mind trying to run a business. Indeed, a number of farmers are expected to do their returns online, which is impossible in Gisburn.

[Jesse Norman]

Councillor Richard Sherras is rarely far from my thoughts. My hon. Friend’s point is illustrated perfectly by a business in Blakemere in my constituency with the wonderful name of Wiggly Wigglers. Wiggly Wigglers was set up 25 years ago in 1990 by fantastic local dynamo Heather Gorringe. It has become an award-winning example of local entrepreneurship. It began with composting worms and garden products, and has now diversified into flower delivery. It has 11 employees, nine of whom are women. It is a perfect example of the kind of higher value-added rural business that constituencies in rural areas across the country seek to emulate, but it is totally reliant on online sales— Blakemere is a village of 63 people. In Heather’s words:

“Our other services are pretty rubbish…A bus goes by once a day, our rubbish is collected once a fortnight, our roads are full of potholes, our train services impossible.”

Indeed, last year, the B road was cut off for a month and one day, and her husband Phil pulled out 39 cars and other vehicles from a chest-high flood. This is the reality of rural broadband compared with other services, and their broadband service has got steadily worse over the past few years, not better.

HM Revenue and Customs

Debate between Jesse Norman and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

I was not aware of that and I thank my hon. Friend for his remark. Of course, historically, Welsh speakers on the other side of the border were very welcome to come to Hereford to have these issues solved, but unfortunately that option does not exist now.

The point is that it is not simply an issue of the cost cutting that has taken place over the past 10 years; the whole model of public service delivery has relocated that service away from local people and back to call centres, as we have heard. That has happened under the influence of a mentality bred by the consulting firms. In particular, one picks out McKinsey, which did a substantial piece of work for HMRC some time ago. This, I am afraid, has been the method by which this mistaken conception of public service delivery has been promulgated. Services, instead of being brought closer to people, have been removed from them. A use of technology that could have assisted the ordinary man and woman and small businesses in dealing with their tax affairs has ended up impeding them, and that has been a terrible and costly shame.

I would direct the current management of HMRC to what systems theory calls “failure demand”. Failure demand is not the cost of delivering a service, but the cost on the rest of the system when people fail to deliver a service. Failure demand in the Revenue has gone through the roof in the last decade, and the statistic we have heard about the length of time people spend on the telephone dealing with Revenue and Customs is a very precise quantification of this increase in failure demand. Essentially, instead of thinking of the costs on the system as a whole, the Revenue has been pushed into pursuing the lowest unit cost, which has encumbered the whole.

There is a parallel in the manufacturing industry. Historically, General Motors ran a production line and if a substandard car was on it, it would be removed from the line and the line was allowed to continue. The result was that these “lemons”, as they were called, built up over time and required a substantial amount of time to fix. However, the system itself never got any better because every time there was a problem, the lemon—the bad car—was removed from the production line. The Toyota approach was entirely different. Every time there was a problem with a car, the entire production line stopped. One can imagine the result: enormous pain for a time, followed by a dramatic improvement in quality and a dramatic fall in costs, because the system was no longer tolerant of failure.

At the moment, for the reasons we have described, HMRC has a system that is massively and very unhappily tolerant of failure. The Government are picking up this mess and will be seeking to make something of it over five years—I hope they will be doing so over 10 years. I encourage them to address not merely the issue of boosting the tax collection rates, but the failed model of public service delivery that underlies the Revenue and so many of our other public services. The Conservative party is committed to improving public services and this is a very good place to start.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

The wind-ups will begin at 6.40 pm.

Postal Services Bill

Debate between Jesse Norman and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

I have two great interests in the Bill. I speak as chair of the all-party group on employee ownership, which plans to examine the Bill in more detail, and also as head of the Herefordshire save our post offices campaign, which fought hard for several years to prevent local post office closures.

I was surprised by the partisan nature of some Opposition speeches, because there are many aspects of the Bill that Opposition Members should embrace and support. The Government deserve enormous credit for the speed and energy with which they have addressed a thorny and difficult issue. There is a marked contrast between that and the record of delay and compromise under the last Administration, during a period when the financial position of Royal Mail only became worse.

I welcome many aspects of the Bill, including the granting of access to new capital for efficiency and modernisation, the excellent arrangements for employee ownership, and the Government’s tough and difficult decision to take on the pension deficit—a nettle that the last Government signally failed to grasp. They preferred to keep it off the balance sheet, like the £230 billion of private finance initiative debt with which we have had to deal. There is a real possibility that, once those changes have been implemented, Royal Mail and the Post Office will be able to turn the corner. The idea of a new mutual structure for the Post Office is particularly innovative and important. This is a human capital business, which requires the human touch and the service that a mutual can bring to it.

However, serious concerns remain. The universal service obligation, which many Members have mentioned, must be preserved. I remind the House of what happened in the telecoms industry, whose privatisation was in many ways highly effective. The universal service obligation in telecoms does not cover either broadband or mobile telephony, but those are exactly the areas in which rural places such as Herefordshire have had a poor deal over the past decade.

I want to draw particular attention to the issue of back-door closures of post offices. We have a vivid case study of that in my constituency. The village of Pontrilas has an excellent post office and shop, with a sorting office, plenty of parking and disabled access. It is a vital community resource in a very rural area. Recently, the sub-postmaster was sacked by the Post Office for a very small mistake in procedure, from which he derived no personal benefit at all. In any other organisation, that would mean a slapped wrist. His case has gone to appeal but it appears that appeal in the Post Office means one person sitting in judgment on hundreds of cases across the UK. If he loses his job, the effects will be disastrous not merely on him—a man who has had no income for the past six weeks, nor is any to come from the Post Office—but on the shop, which would close. The sorting office would go, too, as most probably would the Longtown post office and its sorting centre up the road in one of the most rural areas of this country.

Therefore, I ask the Minister to take an interest in the situation and to look at the position at the Pontrilas post office. I ask whether he agrees with my view that such back-door closures should be prevented and should be included within the remit of preserving the post office network. I also ask whether he shares my view that we need to grow our post offices, push more business through them and use them to support our towns and villages.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

To resume his seat at 6.30, Mr Chris Evans.