Draft Wine (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2024

Jesse Norman Excerpts

Wednesday 17th January 2024 General Committees

[Mark Spencer]

It is ice wine, but I am told it is also quite nice.

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

I note the decline in standards in explanatory memoranda, in that my right hon. Friend—who has been a member of the Cabinet—is not acknowledged as such in the explanatory memorandum; however, I think that is a matter for his civil servants. Given that we do not have an ice wine industry in this country, why are we passing this legislation?

[Mark Spencer]

That is a very good question. It is quite simply because the ice wine brand, as it were, is not currently protected in the UK. In signing up to CPTPP, an obligation was placed on us to recognise this product and register it in the UK. Ice wine is mostly made in Canada, which is a signatory to that agreement. This is about protecting their ice wine producers’ brand, as it were.

Water Companies: Executive Bonuses

Jesse Norman Excerpts

Tuesday 5th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Rebecca Pow)]

I would like to thank the hon. Member for Croydon North (Steve Reed) for raising this important issue. As I have said constantly, all sewage in our waterways is completely and utterly unacceptable. I am pleased to have this opportunity to put on record the huge strides that we have made to deliver clean water for customers and the environment. We are the party for nature. We are the party that brought forward the Environment Act 2021, although many of the measures in it were not supported by Opposition Members. It is a globally leading piece of legislation. If the hon. Gentleman went out on to the global stage, he would realise that we are revered for it, and we now have the whole framework in place to deliver what it states. There are many measures in it to tackle water.

I am genuinely proud to have instigated and driven through our plan for water, which was supported by hundreds of people. It had a huge amount of expertise put into it to deliver it, and we are delivering it. It sets out a genuinely holistic plan to deliver more investment, stronger regulation and tougher enforcement, and make no mistake, it is cross-party. I would like to make the hon. Gentleman an offer. Would he like me to give him a copy, because I am not sure that he has actually looked at it? I would be happy to do that after the debate.

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

My hon. Friend mentions the plan for water, but she will be aware that the previous Secretary of State came to Herefordshire, where she attended a roundtable in Hereford and promised that a plan for the River Wye would be brought to us by 15 September, three months after that meeting. We have yet to see it. I have to say, on behalf of the people of my county, that we are starting to run out of patience. When can we expect this plan to come through?

Sewage Pollution

Jesse Norman Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

Southern Water is one of the companies that were recently investigated, and was subject to a record fine of close to £90 million. That significant fine actually precipitated a change in ownership of that company. I know that the new owners are committed to addressing the historic problems that they have had. As for whether a Minister will visit the hon. Lady’s constituency, if she would like to write to me or wait and see who is around tomorrow, I am sure they will look favourably on her request.

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

As my right hon. Friend knows, the River Wye is a priceless national asset, threatened by phosphate pollution. He also knows that the Wye is unusual because it crosses the border between Wales and England and the majority of its phosphate does not come from sewage companies, and therefore it will not be as affected as other rivers by the thoroughly laudable measures that my right hon. Friend has taken. Will he make a note to his successor, if there is one, and to his officials now in the Box, that the next administration of DEFRA, if there is one, should take the matter up with great energy and authority, and press the cross-border issue, for the betterment of the Wye, the whole catchment and this country as a whole?

[George Eustice]

My right hon. Friend raises an important point, in that there are sometimes cross-border issues. While we are taking leading action in England, we obviously also need other devolved Administrations, including in Wales, to play their part to address the challenge, particularly in catchments such as the Wye. I am aware of the point that he makes on phosphates. We are consulting at the moment on reducing nutrient pollution—both nitrogen and phosphates—from both agriculture and sewage treatment works, and I am sure that when the results are published they will give the impetus that he requires and requests for agriculture to be tackled.

Ofwat: Strategic Priorities

Jesse Norman Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Government’s strategic priorities for Ofwat.

I wish to begin my remarks by placing on the record my thanks to the Backbench Business Committee for granting this opportunity to hold an important debate and in particular for its tolerance. The interventions of the Easter recess, the Prorogation and the recent Whitsun and jubilee mean that it is some two months since my fellow signatories, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) and my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger), and I first submitted our application for this debate. I am pleased to see them both in their places today, and I hope that they will have an opportunity to contribute.

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

I thought the Environmental Audit Committee’s report was a model of its kind. I noted in particular that it created this context of identifying a “chemical cocktail” of sewage, slurry and plastic. Does my right hon. Friend feel that the Government’s response adequately addressed that issue—both on the sewage side and on the wider phosphates issue?

[Philip Dunne]

My right hon. Friend tempts me to rewrite my speech from scratch. First, I thank him for his comments about our report, which was a significant body of work and the first such report of consequence for a number of years. The Government response to our 55 recommendations was one of the most positive responses to any of the reports that our Committee has prepared in the time I have served on it. We made 55 recommendations and I believe only five were rejected by the Government; the others were either accepted in whole or in part. So I think the Government have moved quite a long way in addressing these concerns, but my right hon. Friend will recognise that solving this problem is going to take decades, not days. I know that the Minister will address that in her remarks.

I was just going to thank my colleagues on the EAC for embracing and sharing my passion for the issue of improving water quality as we conducted our inquiry. We published the report in January and it made specific recommendations for the strategic policy statement on Ofwat, which provides the context for today’s debate. I will discuss that shortly.

Having been tempted by my right hon. Friend to praise the Government, or potentially not to do so, I would like to take this moment, while I am in a generous mood, to thank the Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow). I am pleased to see her in her place, responding to this debate, and I thank her for her personal commitment to this vital issue of improving water quality over the past two years. In particular, I thank her for driving her officials to work with me to amend the Environment Act 2021 and put into law many of the core elements of my private Member’s Bill, which the pandemic prevented from being debated. I am very grateful to her and I would like the House to be aware, from me, that she has moved the Government a very considerable distance on this issue.

There is no doubt that over the past two years there has been a massive awakening of public interest in the state of our rivers. The introduction under this and the previous Conservative Government of event duration monitors at water treatment plants and storm overflows and the annual publication of their findings since March 2020, has brought to public attention the appalling degree of sewage routinely spilled into our waterways by all water companies involved in the treatment side of the business.

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[Philip Dunne]

Mr Deputy Speaker, I am rather concerned that my speech has been leaked to other Members of the House, because the Father of the House has just pre-empted my next sentence. He is absolutely right: it is appropriate that we are having this debate on the day after World Oceans Day. Of course, the devastating effect of the spillages impacts the receiving waterway, and gradually impacts the oceans as the rivers flow into the seas around us. This has a differing effect depending on the severity of the spillage, but the effect is routine, not exceptional.

Water companies were allowed to spill discharges so that they did not back up through the drainage system into people’s houses and on to our streets. The whole purpose of the licences was to allow such an opportunity in exceptional circumstances. What is so apparent from all this information is that it is routine spillages that are causing so much damage to our rivers and our oceans.

[Jesse Norman]

Sewage discharges, at least in the River Wye, on which my right hon. Friend’s report brilliantly focused, are only 25% of the problem. Phosphate leaching from fields is more like 65%. Does he feel that the Government have set an adequately ambitious target in saying that 80% of this phosphate should be reduced by 2037? I wonder whether we should go faster than that.

[Philip Dunne]

My right hon. Friend is right to refer to other polluters. If we take a look across the country as a whole, we will see that it is roughly evenly balanced between pollution from water treatment plants and storm overflows and pollution from agriculture. In the Wye, pollution is particularly prone to come from agriculture. As he knows, I am one of his parliamentary neighbours and our waterways along the whole of the Wye and the Lugg catchment are very affected by intensive poultry farming and the phosphates that it generates through spreading litter on the fields.

The Government need to join up their support mechanisms for agriculture. Now that we have left the EU, we have the opportunity through the environmental land management scheme to redirect support in a way that meets not only the objectives to ensure viable agriculture in this country, but other objectives of the same Department—the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

I would like to see a more joined-up approach, so that we can use the mechanisms that exist, such as the sustainable farming incentive, the environmental land management scheme system and the farming rules for water to ensure that we are not only helping farmers to generate and maintain a viable business—I should declare an interest as a farmer and a recipient of the basic payment scheme at the moment—but improving our waterways. My right hon. Friend was absolutely right to raise that issue.

Sewage discharges at the scale that I have mentioned must stop. Campaigning groups up and down the country, with which I have been working, have recognised that for some time—from national organisations such as the Rivers Trust, which I have mentioned, the Angling Trust and Surfers Against Sewage, which was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley), to individual catchment campaign groups such as Windrush Against Sewage Pollution, which gave powerful evidence to our Committee. All have been focused on raising awareness and urging the Government to take action to compel change in the behaviour and performance of water companies, and they are right to do so.

This is why the strategic policy statement for Ofwat is so critical: it is the primary mechanism through which the Government, via the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, are able to influence the economic regulator, Ofwat, to refocus the prioritisation of capital expenditure for the next five-year pricing period—from 2025 to 2029—of the water companies in England, which are responsible for the treatment of sewage and other waste water.

The latest strategic priority statement for Ofwat was published on 28 March, when we had originally sought to hold this debate, having previously been laid before the House in draft for the statutory 40 days. This document is therefore the critical point of influence and the device through which we in this place can persuade the Government to reprioritise Ofwat to compel water companies to act to reduce pollution of our waterways for which they are responsible.

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[Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)]

I congratulate and thank the right hon. Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) for all his campaigning on this issue. I am pleased to have supported a number of his initiatives in this place. That said, it is extraordinary that we are still having to debate this subject—that we are having to talk about measures to prevent and reduce the discharge of raw untreated sewage into our rivers, our lakes and our chalkstreams and on to our beaches. This is just so obviously wrong and it is extraordinary that we are still having to talk about it.

Let me start with a stark contrast. England’s water company bosses have awarded themselves almost £27 million in bonuses over the past two years, despite those companies pumping out raw sewage into waterways 1,000 times a day. That, too, is obviously wrong. Liberal Democrats have demanded a sewage bonus ban to ban future bonuses until sewage dumps stop. We want to stop water company executives being paid a penny in bonuses until waterways are protected from these outrageous sewage dumps, and those bosses should be made to hand back the millions of pounds that they have already received in bonuses until they clean up the mess.

What is the scale of the problem that we are dealing with? In 2020, water companies discharged raw sewage into waterways 400,000 times, which amounts to more than 3 million hours of discharge. The longest discharges lasted for more than 8,000 hours. Just 14% of the UK’s waterways are in a good ecological condition and more than half of England’s rivers failed to pass the cleanliness tests. We have a duty to protect our natural environment, but water companies, Ofwat and, I am afraid, the Government have failed to hold water companies accountable for dumping sewage into waterways.

New analysis of Environment Agency data has revealed some shocking statistics. In the south-west, South West Water dumped sewage into local rivers for a staggering 19,095 hours last year. Across the region, it released sewage into rivers and on to beach fronts 43,484 times and for more than 350,000 hours. The data reveals that that includes raw sewage being discharged for more than 3,700 hours into the River Otter, more than 1,800 hours into the River Exe, and more than 1,400 hours into the River Axe.

The situation is not much better in the east of England in Hertfordshire. My constituency of St Albans is home to the River Ver, which is a rare and precious chalk stream. It should run clear, but last year, the volunteers of the Ver Valley Society and the river wardens took photographs at the source of the river that showed sewage, sewage fungus and plastic tampon applicators—all at the source of our beautiful river.

Shocking data revealed by the Rivers Trust shows that the sewer storm overflow at Markyate waste water treatment works, operated by Thames Water, discharged untreated raw sewage into the River Ver as many as 139 times for a total of 2,642 hours during 2021. Another wastewater treatment works at Harpenden, just up the road from St Albans, also run by Thames Water, recorded 13 spills for a total of 120 hours into the River Lea.

Where on earth is Ofwat? I think it has now been called “Ofwhere” by some environmental charities. It is sitting on its hands and simply missing in action. It has fallen to an environmental group called Wild Justice to take it to court to try to encourage it to use the powers that it already has to regulate sewage discharge.

I am disappointed that the Government have not taken on more of Opposition Members’ ideas. For example, during the passage of the Environment Act, Liberal Democrats supported an amendment to make it harder for sewage dumps to happen and to ensure that DEFRA produced a storm overflow discharge reduction plan. It is disappointing that the Government whipped against that amendment. During the passage of the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, Liberal Democrats tabled an amendment to name and shame the water companies found to dump sewage in rivers, which leads to animals being killed. Again, it is disappointing that the Government actively whipped against that amendment. My hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) has introduced a Sewage Discharges Bill to end the sewage scandal in rivers and protect animals, and I urge the Government to support it.

As I said at the beginning, it is deeply disappointing that we even have to have this debate. Our lakes, beaches, chalk streams and rivers are utterly vital to our British ecosystems, and all of us must do everything to protect them. Despite discharges of untreated waste only being permitted in so-called exceptional circumstances—for example, after extreme rainfall—these releases from water treatment companies are becoming routine.

Water companies must work to minimise sewage discharges into our rivers and lakes, so I call on the Minister to consider a number of things. I would like the Government to set meaningful targets and deadlines for water companies to end sewage discharge. I would like the Government to introduce a sewage tax on water company profits to fund the clean-up of our waterways. I would like the Government to reduce the number of licences given to water companies permitting them to discharge sewage into our rivers.

[Jesse Norman]

Does the hon. Lady share my view that one of the things the Government should closely consider is the idea of a national rivers recovery fund so that fines that have been paid can be used to remedy all of the pollution that has created them? At the moment, small fines go back into redress for pollution, but large ones go to the Treasury. My former colleagues will not thank me for it, but there is a case for a wider national recovery fund for rivers.

[Daisy Cooper]

I thank the right hon. Member for his intervention, and I think that is an exceptionally good idea. I am certainly open to any idea that effectively makes these water companies cough up to clean up the mess they have made. I would happily have a conversation with him to see how we can advance such a suggestion.

In addition, I would like the Government to add members of local environmental groups to water company boards. Some of our river volunteers, certainly in St Albans, are themselves experts—they know these rivers inside out—and they should have a voice and a role on water company boards.

I would like to see Ofwat using its existing powers to tackle the discharge of raw sewage, but I also want Ofwat’s powers to be strengthened, and I will give two or three quick examples. I do think that the Government could give Ofwat the power to force water companies to make repairs and investments to reduce sewage discharge. Ofwat could have the power to ban companies from giving bonuses to their executives until this mess has been cleaned up, and Ofwat should have the power to force companies to publish the number of sewage discharges more regularly than just once a year.

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[Sir Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) for everything he has done. I say that as one of his parliamentary colleagues, but also as a passionate angler for the past 51 years of my 54-year life; and the other three were wasted. I am chairman of the all-party group on angling and I am chairman-elect of the Angling Trust, a position I will take over in September this year.

I agree with my right hon. Friend: I am sick and tired of water companies, and the slurry spreaders and egg farmers, pumping sewage into our rivers and watercourses. I am familiar with the Wye valley, and I share the sense of outrage of my right hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) at what has happened to that river and what continues to happen to that river. Ofwat needs to get with the programme. Yes, consumers want to have water priced at a level they can afford, but consumers now also want to protect the environment that they enjoy.

There was an article in Monday’s Times which said that 98% of the swimming locations in Austria—about 50 places—are of an excellent standard and meet the highest levels of quality. We would be lucky to find one place in England where it is safe to swim; in fact, there is only one place.

[Jesse Norman]

My hon. Friend is so familiar with Herefordshire and the angling there that he needs no encouragement from me, but may I remind him that part of the problem with the Wye is that it crosses the border so there is an impunity in that Wales can avoid having regulatory involvement and leave the muck to come down to Herefordshire? Does my hon. Friend agree that an all-river strategy with some commissioners, as there have been since the 18th century on the Tweed, might be a solution to the problem?

[Sir Charles Walker]

My right hon. Friend demonstrates huge knowledge because the Tweed does indeed have commissioners and that works. The Tweed has its own problems but they are not on the same scale as those of the Wye and our right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales is currently talking to the Angling Trust and will be working with the Welsh Government to try to find a way forward.

You might not know this, Mr Deputy Speaker, but anglers are the canaries in the coalmine; they are the first to raise the alarm when there is a pollution incident. In 1948 the Anglers’ Cooperative Association was established, by a visionary called John Eastwood, to take legal action against polluters. In 2009 it became Fish Legal, and it has some fantastic lawyers who go after the polluters, and that is what we need, because I am fed up as an angler. I am going to say something that might be out of order, and you might demand that I retract it, Mr Deputy Speaker: if any high net-worth individuals want to make a contribution to cleaning up our rivers and streams, they should visit the Fish Legal website and see how they can make a donation to fund its legal work, because it does go after the polluters and it does win judgments, and those judgments go back to the angling clubs and watercourses that have been polluted.

Of course we should have a rivers restoration fund; that is what we need. It is outrageous that when a water company is fined £120 million an almost meaningless reduction is made to people’s bills—one that they would not notice—with the balance of the money invariably going back to the Treasury, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire pointed out. We should use that money to clean up the rivers and watercourses that have been damaged by the pollution.

I have little more to add to this debate. I just want to say that the patience of colleagues here and of the constituents we represent has been stretched to breaking point. The Government have made progress but something needs to happen. We must go after the polluters, be they farmers or water companies; Ofwat has to get with the programme and we have to persuade them, by law through the courts through fines, to change their practices.

Draft Flood Reinsurance (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Jesse Norman Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2022 General Committees

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for her comments, as well as for the work she has done on this legislation and on the related area of the cleanliness of the River Wye, which is itself a function, in part, of flooding and the sweep of phosphates into the river. I thank her and her Department very much for the work that they have done on that.

In relation to flooding, the Minister may recall that in early 2020 there was some serious flooding in Herefordshire that resulted in the sweeping away of an entire causeway, and the undermining of the road down to Fownhope. For various different reasons, no support—or very little support—was forthcoming from central Government for the restitution of the causeway and that road. They did not fall under the Department for Transport funding for local road restoration, and as Herefordshire is a county of 190,000 people—fewer than even small London boroughs—it was entirely struggling to pay for the costs of those roads. Nor were the costs paid for by the Bellwin funding, which extends only to surface impediments and other disturbances to the use of a road, and is quite narrowly interpreted even for that.

May I ask the Minister to take back to her Department the question of whether there is a gap in the legislation and in the provision, and whether counties such as Herefordshire, which are completely dependent on their roads because they are so rural and have very small populations, should be asked to bear the extremely large costs of such floods? Indeed, they may in some sense require reinsurance, because that is a serious concern. Of course, this greatly affects the question of levelling up, with which the Government are widely and properly concerned.

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[Rebecca Pow]

I thank Members for all their comments on the statutory instrument. Of course, flooding affects so many of us. I come from Somerset, and we have had to deal with very serious flooding over the years, including just before I arrived in Parliament. It has to be said that the Government, with their funding, have really helped us to address that down in Somerset.

I thank the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Leeds North West, for his support for the SI. I know that he has some knowledge of flooding in his constituency. He raised some very valid questions. He asked whether the scheme should not be made compulsory for all insurers. In the approach that we are taking, we are trying to encourage a cultural shift in the insurance industry. We have done a huge amount of engagement. Insurance companies are very pro what we have brought forward, and many are already taking the scheme on board; they are either getting it in writing or just about to start offering it anyway once the SI goes through.

We are optimistic that the scheme will be very widely picked up, and that it will have a really positive impact on supply chains, awareness and demand. Once one lot of insurance companies start offering it, we anticipate that the majority will take it up. That is why we are confident that introducing it on a voluntary basis is what we need to achieve what we are hoping to achieve, which is basically more people being more sure of their property’s flood resilience and being able to get hold of the right money to build back better—to put their houses back in a better state than they were.

At the moment, as I said, houses are often just reinstated as they were. It is awful to think that one might flood again, but in some areas people have to be mindful of that. Therefore, putting down tiles or waterproof plasterboard—you can get that now, Mr Robertson—rather than carpets might make full sense, but it might cost more; that is why this extra bit of funding will be really helpful. We are fully optimistic that we have the necessary measures in place. I hope that gives the hon. Member some reassurance.

The hon. Member also asked about landlords and tenants. All types of landlord insurance are classified by the insurance industry as commercial business insurance, since such insurance, including for larger leasehold premises, is often bespoke. However, leasehold properties consisting of three or fewer blocks, where the freeholder him or herself lives in the block, are eligible for Flood Re, and tenants and leaseholders are able to obtain contents insurance supported by Flood Re regardless of the size of the block. A number of insurers also offer solutions to those struggling to access flood insurance, including parametric insurance and a scheme that amends a lease for the remaining lifetime of Flood Re to allow the individual leaseholders in a block to insure their individual flats. Quite a lot of thinking has gone into that, and quite a number of tenants and leaseholders are covered.

Following the 2019 flooding, the Government commissioned an independent review of flood insurance in Doncaster, which the hon. Member might remember. Following that report, we are taking forward action, which includes repeating some research into the availability and affordability of flood insurance, because there was a small group of people, which included some tenants, that still fell out of getting cover. Work is continuing on that.

We have also been working with the insurance industry to set up a new flood insurance directory, to which customers can be signposted by insurers and brokers when they themselves cannot offer flood cover. The directory, which has recently been launched, aims to reduce the number of policies sold with flood exclusions and drive uptake of suitable flood cover. The directory can be found on the British Insurance Brokers’ Association website. I hope that gives some reassurance.

The hon. Member mentioned farming and farmers. What happens to farmers when their land gets flooded has been raised with me many times. Farmers have to work with temporary flooding in many areas—that probably applies to your area around Tewkesbury, Mr Robertson—but there are issues when the water stays longer on the land. A lot of new schemes, particularly the environmental land management scheme, give particular mention to working with farmers to take water in flood-risk areas. It is a changing landscape for farmers, but we are very aware of that particular issue, especially as we are going to get more extreme weather events. Whatever we do about climate change—and we have to do everything we can to tackle it—we still have to adapt, and many of our policies are working towards that.

I thank all hon. Members for their comments. I thank the Scottish shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Gordon, for welcoming the policies. We were very pleased to work with the devolveds on this, because there was all-round support.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire is a great advocate for the River Wye. As he knows, I made a visit to look at what is going on there. We are doing so much work now to tackle the issue of pollution in his area, but, as he says, there have also been flooding issues. I will write to him on his point about the road, as it comes under the remit of the Department for Transport and is linked to its road investment strategy.

It is important to address how we tackle the flooding of wider infrastructure. We are at pains to work even more closely on flooding with all other Departments. When we allocate our flood funding money—it is a huge budget worth £5.2 billion of investment—we can get an awful lot of wider spin-offs if we work with other Departments. There are benefits if we tackle the issue effectively. There are huge benefits for the economy from sorting out the flood risk for businesses.

[Jesse Norman]

I perfectly understand that the Minister will write to me, including in relation to DFT, and I am of course happy with that. This bears on DEFRA because there is a hole in the Bellwin approach that has the effect of not providing funding to address the catastrophic destruction of roads, and that cannot be remedied by small authorities that simply do not have the funds to address such large-scale devastation. That is the problem. I would be grateful if the Minister could look at that in her response.

[Rebecca Pow]

The Bellwin scheme comes under the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. Although I am the floods Minister, there is only one significant fund that comes under DEFRA, and that is for farmland. That is why we have to work with other Departments. The Bellwin fund is very much for local authorities to cover the urgent and drastic clean-up required after a flood. I will write to my right hon. Friend on the issue of flooding on the roads, but I take his point.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham, who talks to me regularly and is a massive advocate for his constituency. I am sorry that it has had flooding recently. He knows that there are schemes under way, and we are going to have a meeting about some additional ones. I welcome his work chairing the partnership of 45 MPs who represent constituencies up and down our enormous and important River Severn. He will know that we have recently given funding to do some much wider, innovative and creative thinking about how to tackle flooding right up and down the whole catchment. Some pilots have already started. A lot of that involves nature-based solutions, as well as hard flood defences and so on. It also involves speaking with our devolved colleagues in Wales. I am really working hard on that, because the river does of course have two sides—in England and in Wales.