Jimmy Savile (NHS Investigations)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Cheryl Gillan

Thursday 26th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I have great sympathy for his constituent. The information was not collated centrally. There were a number of reports about which we might have been sceptical if we had read them in isolation, but when we read them together with other reports, we see a pattern and we can conclude, as the investigation has done, that those incidents did indeed take place. That is one of the big learning points: we have to collate information that different victims provide at different times, to ensure that proper judgments can be made and that action can be taken.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

It has been truly sickening to read in the report that over two decades, money, influence, celebrity and people being star-struck could allow Savile the licence serially to abuse so many people, particularly in our local Buckinghamshire hospital at Stoke Mandeville. I really welcome the apologies from the Secretary of State and from our local chief executive officer, Anne Eden, who has given a heartfelt apology and praised the courage of those who have come forward. May I press the Secretary of State further on mandatory reporting? It is exceedingly important that we start that consultation as rapidly as possible. It was obvious that the proposed clause in the Serious Crime Bill was flawed in many ways. When will he start the consultation, and when will the terms of reference be available? Will he now undertake to legislate as soon as the consultation has produced results?

[Mr Hunt]

I can certainly give that undertaking: we will start the consultation as soon as possible and if the conclusion is for legislation, we will legislate as soon as possible. I hope that my right hon. Friend understands that there is a great deal of complexity involved in getting this right. It is very important to talk to victims and to people who are looking at the evidence on mandatory reporting, which happens in other parts of the world, with very mixed results. Most importantly, we want to avoid the unintended consequence of a decision being taken against the interests of a child or vulnerable person because people are following a legalistic process which undermines the proper professional judgment made on the ground.

Francis Report: Update and Response

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I welcome the broadly constructive tone that we have heard today. May I say, in that spirit, that I hope that that represents a change in substance from some of the other exchanges we have had on these topics? The right hon. Gentleman tried to vote down the legislation that set up the new chief inspectors and he opposed the holding of a public inquiry into Mid Staffs. If we are to have constructive agreement across the House, I do think we need to agree on substance as well as on tone. Let me just take the individual points he mentioned.

We are completely committed to death certification. That was recommended in the wake of the Shipman inquiry. The right hon. Gentleman’s Government took a very long time to do anything on this and we have been trying hard to do it. It is a complicated thing to get right. On the question of looking properly at avoidable deaths, I just want to say this. It is very difficult, when one looks at case notes, to work out whether a death was avoidable or not, but we think we have a methodology to do that. It is more difficult to relate that to individual trusts, but we want to try to achieve that as well. I was disappointed at the weekend that when we announced that, his response was that it was unambitious. Two weeks earlier, he had published Labour’s 10-year plan for the NHS, which did not actually mention reducing avoidable deaths at all. What we are proposing is the most ambitious thing that any health care system has proposed anywhere in the world, and I hope it will have his full support.

On the right hon. Gentleman’s comments about not generating a climate of fear, he is absolutely right; it is really important, in getting the culture right, to make sure that people are supported to speak out and that there is not, as an unintended consequence, the kind of bullying and intimidation that Sir Robert says is all too common today. I suggest to him that one of the reasons for that climate of fear has been over-dependence on top-down targets as a way of running the NHS. That is what has created the fear in managers that sometimes has led them to treat their staff in the wrong way. What would be very constructive would be a recognition from Labour that that top-down targets culture did go too far, and that we need to rely on transparency as a way of improving performance as a much better tool than endless new targets.

In anything we do—this is something else where I agree with the right hon. Gentleman—we must look very closely at making sure that we learn these lessons in the social care sector as well. That is particularly clear when we look at the scandal of what happened in Rotherham. That is why, when we introduced the new CQC inspection regime following the original Francis public inquiry, we did not just set up a chief inspector for hospitals but set up a chief inspector for general practice and for adult social care. We are now getting the same Ofsted-style transparent rankings of how good care is in care homes, and indeed in domiciliary care. I know that he, like me, is concerned about 15-minute care visits. I think those inspections will help to root out those problems.

With respect to nurse numbers, I really do think that is something on which, if the right hon. Gentleman wants to be constructive, he should commend the Government’s efforts. We have 8,000 more nurses in our hospital wards than we had four years ago. Of course, as a short-term response a lot of hospitals are employing nurses through agencies. That must only be a short-term response. We need proper long-term commitment to institutions, which we do not get with agency staff, but I commend hospitals that have said, “While we try and get enough staff in place for the long term we are not going to wait, because we need to make sure that patients are safe today.” They want to do what it takes to do that.

Finally, on the risk register, I simply remind the right hon. Gentleman that when he was Secretary of State he blocked the publication of the risk register. As a Minister, he said:

“This would inhibit the free and frank exchange of views about significant risks and…management, and inhibit the provision of advice to Ministers.”—[Official Report, 23 March 2007; Vol. 458, c. 1192W.]

More broadly, I just want to say this. There are many patients and whistleblowers looking at today’s exchanges and wanting to see constructive agreement on the way forward. I think we can get a measure of that. What they say they want is not just words, but actions.

As we put staff and patients first in England, will Labour do the same for patients in Wales and today commit to a Keogh review of high mortality hospitals, commit to a chief inspector of Welsh hospitals and commit to protect staff who speak out in Wales, as we want to do in England? Will he commit to putting right a top-down culture that prioritised the needs of the system over the needs of individuals? Will he, as we do, recognise that that is always the danger of treating the NHS as a political possession and not as a service for patients? Patients must always come first. Staff who want to do the right thing for patients should always be heard. Our NHS deserves nothing less.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

May I endorse the Secretary of State’s remarks on Wales, having seen it at first hand? Having seen at first hand a constituent who was a whistleblower, and how her career and her family life have been so badly affected after she did the right thing, I know that what the Secretary of State has done today will be widely welcomed.

On the Public Administration Committee, we took evidence from the CQC and others, and it became very obvious that there is still a major problem with complaints procedures for patients and their relations. Patients often tell me that they are afraid to complain about the way that they are being treated in whatever NHS establishment they are in. Is there some way in which the Secretary of State can ensure that there are clear instructions in all NHS establishments on how patients and their relations can raise their valid concerns without their worst fears being realised?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The right hon. Lady, whom I know extremely well as a Buckinghamshire colleague, rather like Treebeard does not believe in unnecessary or undue haste, but if I could suggest to colleagues that questions could be pithy rather than too leisurely I think we would all profit from that. The same goes, of course, for the Secretary of State, from whom we expect characteristically pithy, succinct responses.

Managing Risk in the NHS

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Cheryl Gillan

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am going to make some progress and then I will give way.

In addition, in September the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) and Professor Tricia Hart will present their recommendations on how we can turn NHS complaints handling into an engine for improving compassionate care.

The right hon. Member for Leigh mentioned nursing numbers. Getting the right number of staff on wards does matter, and where that is not happening for hospitals in special measures it will be sorted out. However, to suggest that that is the only issue, or indeed the main issue, is completely to misunderstand what has gone wrong. Eight of the 11 failing hospitals had increases in nurse numbers since 2010, but they still needed to go into special measures. Training, values, clinical safety and, above all, leadership are often as important.

Labour has been calling for mandatory minimum staffing numbers. Let us look at what the experts say about that idea. Robert Francis said:

“To lay down in a regulation, ‘Thou shalt have N number of nurses per patient’ is not the answer. The answer is, ‘How many patients do I need today in this ward to treat these patients?’”

He also said:

“The government was criticised for not implementing one, which it is said I recommended, which I didn’t.”

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way, because he knows that Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust was included in the statement yesterday. The trust welcomes his leadership and the opportunity to improve its performance, so that it can give the best possible care to patients in Buckinghamshire. Does my right hon. Friend agree that training goes to the heart of quality, particularly of agency staff? Would he like to say something about the competence, quality and checks that are made on agency staff, which will help to improve the health service across the country?

[Mr Hunt]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. There are many locums who work extremely hard and are very committed. However, it is true that one feature of a number of the failing hospitals in yesterday’s report was that they had a high proportion of locum staff. It is harder to build up a sense of teamwork if there is a huge turnover in the people working in NHS organisations, and I know that many will reflect on that.

Hospital Mortality Rates

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Cheryl Gillan

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman, who is one of those predecessors, would accept at a quieter moment outside the Chamber that one of the biggest mistakes made during his time as Secretary of State—or at least it was initiated then—was the appalling change that was made to the regulation of hospitals. The CQC was stripped of expert inspectors, and hospitals began to be inspected by generalists. The same group of people would inspect a slimming clinic, a dental practice, a GP’s surgery, and a major London teaching hospital. That very significant mistake lies at the heart of the reason why the CQC approved and certified so many failing hospitals.

I am happy to work with the right hon. Gentleman, and to say that honest mistakes were made and we will put them right, but today there must be honesty about what those mistakes were.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Patients and their families outside this place will join me in congratulating the Secretary of State on his brave decision not to sweep NHS failures under the carpet.

You and I know, Mr. Speaker, that Buckinghamshire contains many areas of health care that are of high quality, but the report identifies some failings, one of which is the quality of out-of-hours and weekend nursing and medical cover for acute medical patients. That is clearly linked to difficulties relating to the recruitment, retention and availability of competent clinicians and nurses. What more can the Department do to help our trusts improve out-of-hours provision and, in particular, the quality of temporary staff, so that those problems can be eliminated?

[Mr Hunt]

My right hon. Friend is right. Serious problems were identified in Buckinghamshire relating to out-of-hours care and also to dementia patients, who themselves often need help out of hours. I raised the difficult issue of the GP contract because, in order to solve such problems, we need more joined-up care in the community. The Chancellor has announced an additional £2.8 billion for joint commissioning arrangements between local authorities and health care bodies, and I think that the combination of those two measures will secure a vastly improved out-of-hours service for my right hon. Friend’s constituents.

Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Cheryl Gillan

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I thank the Secretary of State for coming to the House and making a statement that helps to restore our confidence in the NHS, which has been so badly undermined by Labour’s appalling stewardship. Will he take steps to ensure that any complaints procedure provides protection to patients and relatives who raise concerns?

[Mr Hunt]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. The thing about complaints procedures is that we must have a system that is not about process and whether there is a response to a complaint in three days. The question is whether a hospital looks at and learns from a complaints procedure and changes its behaviour. That is what the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) and Professor Tricia Hart are looking into. Hospitals will be inspected against best practice to try to encourage as many of them as possible to adopt the very best complaints procedures.