Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Wes Streeting

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The issue the hon. Lady raises is of the greatest importance and I will happily take it up again with the Home Office, further to the response that I have already sent her. She is entitled to receive proper answers. That is one of the purposes of this set of questions: to allow me to follow up where people have not got the answers they feel they want.

Tomorrow will not be the day for ten-minute rule Bills, but there will be further opportunities for ten-minute rule Bills. I absolutely accept that the issue the hon. Lady raises is of fundamental importance. Anything that relates to drug deaths is something that this House must take really seriously, both in terms of how we help people who are addicts and in terms of how we enforce the law. Both of those issues need attention.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

In relation to tomorrow’s general debate on the principles of democracy, one of the unfortunate consequences of the unlawful Prorogation is that it has dragged the Crown into a matter of enormous controversy on one of the biggest issues of our time and calls into question the role of constitutional monarchy. If in future the monarch was asked to sign off an unlawful Prorogation and simply rubber stamped it, it would call into question the very need for a constitutional monarch. Conversely, if Her Majesty was asked to agree again an unlawful Prorogation and, having had this experience, refused, Her Majesty the Queen would again be drawn into political controversy.

Given the enormous speculation about the role of Her Majesty the Queen in relation to the last Prorogation and in relation to future Prorogations, does the Leader of the House and Lord President of the Council not consider it a matter of enormous personal regret that the actions of the Government of which he is a part have dragged Her Majesty the Queen into such controversy and plunged the whole notion of constitutional monarchy into the political spotlight, in a way that I do not think anyone who believes in constitutional monarchy could possibly want?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Prime Minister said earlier that the hon. Gentleman normally makes sensible points. This is the second time today when he has not. That is the most fatuous point I have heard. We know full well that Her Majesty acts on the advice of her Prime Minister. That was set out in front of the Supreme Court and was not questioned by anybody. Her Majesty does not independently decide whether to prorogue or not to prorogue. The British public know that. The only doubt that is ever caused is by hon. Gentlemen opposite raising the point that it is the Queen and trying to politicise Her Majesty, of which I think the great work, “Erskine May”, disapproves. It is quite wrong to drag Her Majesty into it. The responsibility is unquestionably the Prime Minister’s and this is the routine a, b, c of constitutionalism. Anybody who understands the constitution knows that Her Majesty had no discretion. There was no question of dragging her into it and it is the hon. Gentleman—who is, to use your favourite word, Mr Speaker, chuntering away merrily—who ought to go back to school and learn about the constitution. A Ladybird book can be provided.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Wes Streeting

Thursday 5th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

No, what the hon. Gentleman is confusing is when the day of Dissolution is set, and that is done by Royal Proclamation.

I can assure the House that the date will be set and the date will be stuck to. I think everybody in this House wants to see this issue settled; it is the one thing we have agreement about. The best way to settle it is through a general election—and a general election before 31 October.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

Does the Leader of the House not understand that such is the lack of trust in this Government because of their behaviour that we simply will not vote for a general election unless and until an extension of article 50 has been secured, guaranteeing that this country cannot be dragged out with no deal? That is the condition.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The condition seems to change, because the condition was that the legislation was passed.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

And enacted; given Royal Assent. [Interruption.] Royal Assent is the point at which it is enacted—it is when it becomes an Act. If that is the law of the land, that will be the law of the land, and if Members think it through they will realise that the Government would not want an election after that law had taken effect and we had had to ask for an extension. The last thing this Government want to do is ask for an extension.

[Wes Streeting]

But we do.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Then win an election. That is the easy part of it; if Labour Members really have confidence in what they say, go for an election. That is the obvious point. The weasel wording to try to pretend they want an election, but they do not want an election, and they are not going to vote for one because we might leave is all about stopping Brexit by people who do not trust their own voters.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 5) Bill

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Wes Streeting

Monday 8th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

It really is no good Government Members complaining about the lack of time—the lack of time to debate this Bill or the fact that we are days away from crashing out of the European Union with no deal. In fact, we would have done that already, were it not for the interventions of people from all parts of this House and in the other place.

Why are we in this position? There is some serious revisionist history going on tonight. It is because after the referendum, a Parliament in which a majority of Members voted to remain none the less said, “We accept that people have voted to leave the European Union.” When the Prime Minister—after she had been dragged through the courts, incidentally—was eventually forced to ask for permission to trigger article 50 and begin the process of negotiations, as has been said, the vast majority of MPs, myself included, voted to give the Prime Minister that permission. That was Parliament’s sole role in the matter: being asked for permission and giving the Prime Minister permission.

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

When Parliament voted for article 50 to be activated, surely Members knew that we would leave after an agreement had been reached or after two years—or did they not bother reading article 50?

[Wes Streeting]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware from our time together on the Treasury Committee that we knew what the timeline was for the negotiations. What we could not have foreseen was that the Prime Minister would be so irresponsible, when given the authority to trigger article 50, to send that letter without first having agreement within her Cabinet, within her party and across the House. We also could not have foreseen—not least because she promised repeatedly that she would not do it—that she would have wasted a significant proportion of that two years on a general election.

In the election, the Prime Minister asked the country in explicit and personal terms to give her the mandate that she needed for a hard Brexit of the kind that many Government Members now demand. What did the public say? They said no. They did not give the Prime Minister the majority she asked for. The Conservative party lost seats and the country decided that no one party could be trusted with a majority to govern. That should bring humility on all of us. It also required a degree of contrition and compromise, but we have not seen any of that from the Prime Minister until the 11th hour.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Wes Streeting

Monday 1st April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The shame is not that Parliament is trying to wrestle power from the Government, but that Parliament is wrestling power from the 17.4 million people who voted to leave. The shame is that people who stood on manifestos saying that they would respect the result of the referendum did so with forked tongues.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

On the subject of shame and public apologies, I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman might seize this opportunity to apologise for quoting, apparently approvingly, the leader of Germany’s far-right AfD party this weekend.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I think it is reasonable to quote speeches made in the German Parliament. It is not as great a Parliament as this one or as noble a House as this House of Commons but, none the less, it is the Chamber of a House of an important ally and friend. What was said was extremely interesting. Just referring people to what has been said is not necessarily an endorsement. As the hon. Gentleman may have noticed, I just quoted from the motion before us, not because I endorse it but because it is interesting and important, so perhaps he should not jump to weird conclusions.

The other problem with this motion is the time it allows for debate. We will have quite a number of motions to consider, as we did yesterday.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Wes Streeting

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 14th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman. I am sure that if he did not hear a clear answer, most other Members did not hear one either. This is a golden opportunity for the Minister to answer the question. The Secretary of State has now arrived in the Chamber. Perhaps he will be able to help the Minister out. The simple question is whether, during the transition period, the European Court of Justice will still have jurisdiction in the way that it does at present. Can the Secretary of State give us clarity on this one point? This is a simple and fundamental question—[Interruption.] Come on!

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

rose—

[Wes Streeting]

Ah, the real power behind the throne! I will give way to the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. The answer ought to be perfectly clear. If we are still under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, we will not have left the European Union.

[Wes Streeting]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for setting out in the House today the consistent view that he has held throughout the referendum campaign and during the debates that have followed.

The Government have a fundamental problem. This is not about whether it is the will of the House that the ECJ should have jurisdiction during the transitional period. I think that most Members, whether they voted leave or remain, understand the central importance of giving business certainty right at this moment about what will happen when we leave the European Union. The Prime Minister understood that when she made her speech in Florence, in which she said that, during the transition period,

“the existing structure of EU rules and regulations”

would apply. She also said that we could agree

“to bring forward aspects of that future framework such as new dispute resolution mechanisms more quickly if this can be done smoothly.”

The implications are clear. It was the Prime Minister’s view in Florence that, to provide business with the certainty that it needs now about jobs and economic activity, we would remain in the single market and the customs union and, necessarily, under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice for a time-limited transition period.