Public Health: Coronavirus Regulations

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) who closed on a critical point.

I thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the good faith that is being shown today in fulfilling the promises given before about bringing these matters to the House. I hope that the same will be done in future if there are to be any measures to move areas between tiers in the three-tier system.

We all recognise that the Government have a difficult and unenviable balance to strike. We want to ensure the most effective response to the virus, while preserving vital treatment for other illnesses, such as cancer, and maintaining as far as possible normal family and social life as well as jobs and livelihoods.

In this context, I would argue that we need to work with the public, encouraging people to take sensible precautions for themselves. We all know the principal steps that need to be taken. We know that hand hygiene and distancing are key to protecting ourselves and others. We should encourage people to take that responsibility on themselves more and more. There should always be a presumption in doing so that we should protect as much of people’s freedom as possible. There are some simple steps that can mitigate some of the worst effects of these measures. Exempting young children from the rule of six is one that has been taken in other parts of the United Kingdom. Getting rid of the 10 pm curfew, or softening it, as others have suggested, is another. Introducing testing at airports to mitigate the hugely damaging quarantine arrangements is another, and I hope that we will see some movement on that in the next few weeks.

I make no bones about it: I would go further. As I said last week in the House, in my view, it is wrong to use public health legislation designed to control infected people to direct the lives of an entire population. But most immediately, I am concerned for my constituents in Greater Manchester, who have been in extra restrictions since late July. They were lifted for 12 hours, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State remembers very well, and I remember the tears that I heard cried by constituents when those restrictions were restored. In tier 2, we can at least meet friends and family outdoors, but after two and a half months of controls, we must be told how and when the restrictions will be lifted. This half-alive state that we have come to inhabit cannot be allowed to become permanent.

Public Health

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Helen Whately]

I will just move on as I am conscious that I have taken quite a number of interventions—

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

Not from me.

[Helen Whately]

Okay then.

[Sir Graham Brady]

I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way. We are three weeks in and we know that a different model is being applied in Scotland. At what point would she expect to be able to form a judgment as to whether the Scottish approach, excluding young children from the rule of six, is less effective, as effective, or more effective than that in England?

[Helen Whately]

I have a personal perspective, as I have a household of five and am therefore well aware that the rule of six can make socialising quite difficult for families. For instance, my own family now cannot get together either with both my parents or my husband’s parents. I very much appreciate the difficulty of this restriction, although the majority of households are slightly smaller and are not finding it as difficult as my own or other larger households. We are keeping this and all measures under review. The Government clearly do not want to introduce restrictions if we do not need to do so. What is crucial is that restrictions are effective, so we are looking at all the evidence, including where and how the virus is being transmitted—whether that is in households, in people’s own homes, through meeting up with other households or in hospitality settings—and we will continue to do so. But in answer to my hon. Friend’s question, I cannot give a date or a specific “This will be the moment at which it would happen.”

[Sir Graham Brady]

rose—

[Helen Whately]

I feel I have taken quite a number of interventions, so it is time that I moved on, if that is all right.

Let me talk through some further changes that have come into effect since the regulations were made. On 21 September, following the advice of the four chief medical officers, the UK’s covid alert level was raised from 3 to 4, which is the second most serious stage, meaning that transmission is high or rising exponentially. The Prime Minister outlined to Parliament on 22 September that we were at a “perilous turning point”, and needed to act to save lives, protect the NHS and the most vulnerable, and shelter the economy from far sterner and more costly measures that would inevitably become necessary.

As a result, further restrictions came into effect from 24 September. These included: rules on the closure of certain businesses selling food or drink between 10 pm and 5 am; measures to require hospitality venues to provide food and drink for consumption on the premises by table service only; the doubling of initial fines for individual breaches of the above measures; and new fines for businesses that do not adhere to the new requirements, starting at £1,000, up to a maximum of £10,000 for repeated breaches. The rules also change the exemptions to the six-person gathering limit to restrict attendance at wedding ceremonies, receptions and support groups to 15, and remove the exemption for stand-alone religious or belief-based lifecycle ceremonies and adult indoor sports apart from indoor disabled sports. We are working through the normal channels to schedule debates for these regulations as soon as possible.

I recognise that people have had to make significant sacrifices to suppress the first wave, and these restrictions are not measures that any Government would want to introduce, but the threat of the virus very much remains. With winter approaching, we must do whatever it takes to keep it under control and protect the NHS so that it can, in turn, look after us.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

The so-called rule of six, like the ban on household mingling in some parts of the country and, indeed, the original lockdown measures, was introduced under public health laws that were originally envisaged as a means of controlling the movement of infected people, not of whole populations and not for indefinite periods of time. The approach being taken is truly unprecedented. These rules are a massive intrusion into the liberty and private lives of the whole British people, and they are having a devastating economic effect, which will result in big job losses and masses of business failures.

The rule of six has only been in place for three weeks or so, but much of the country has been under additional restrictions for much longer. In Greater Manchester, for example, people have been banned from mixing with other households, including close family, since late July. It would be interesting to know what conclusions the Government have reached about the efficacy of these restrictions, given the 10 weeks of experience that we now have in those areas with greater restrictions.

Rates of positive testing in those areas have fluctuated over the summer months. In Trafford, rates were falling in July, when we were put into the additional restrictions, but rising a month later. After 10 weeks, the positive test figures in Trafford are roughly twice as high as they were in July. In the city of Manchester, the increase has been tenfold.

If I asked the Minister whether these restrictions are proving effective, I suspect that she would say, “But it might have been worse if we weren’t doing it.” If so, she needs to tell the House how long she would maintain a ban on household mingling or a rule of six in the event that test rates continued not to respond to the restrictions. Does she accept that there could be no exit from the policy?

Can the Minister share with the House her estimate of the efficacy of a rule of six, compared with that of a rule of eight, had that been introduced instead? Is a rule of six more or less effective than a ban on household mixing? What assessment have the Government made of the efficacy of the rule of six in England, and in Scotland and Wales, where young children are excluded from it? The Minister did not answer that question when I intervened earlier, and she would not say when such an assessment would be made, but it is a very important point. I would have thought that by the time a month has elapsed, it should be possible to see which is working better or whether they are interchangeable.

For the state to direct people whether or when they can see their families in their own homes or gardens is an extreme intervention, and this House should set the highest bar possible before approving it. If such an intrusion into people’s lives can be justified, Ministers need to be able to demonstrate that it works, they need to be able to reassure people that it will be temporary, and they need to set out the criteria under which the restrictions will be lifted. I hope the Minister will answer those questions today.

Coronavirus Act 2020 (Review of Temporary Provisions)

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Wednesday 30th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Matt Hancock)]

I beg to move,

That the temporary provisions of the Coronavirus Act 2020 should not yet expire.

When we first introduced the Act in March, I said that coronavirus is the most serious public health emergency that the world has faced in a century. Now, six months later, it is still the most serious public health emergency that the world has faced in a century. We have worked hard, overwhelmingly across party lines and sometimes at great pace, and come together to slow the spread of this virus. With the help of this Act, we protected the NHS, we built the Nightingale hospitals, and we welcomed thousands of clinicians back to the frontline. The Act helped people to get more appropriate care, faster; it helped the NHS and social care to harness technology like never before; and it has allowed the Government to deliver unprecedented economic support in troubled times. Although we have made huge strides in expanding testing and huge progress toward a vaccine, with the virus still at large, the Coronavirus Act 2020 and the measures within it remain as important as then.

Our strategy is to suppress the virus while protecting the economy, education and the NHS until a vaccine makes us safe. The Act is still needed to keep people safe. I understand that these are extraordinary measures, but they remain temporary, time-limited and proportionate to the threat that we face. Some of the measures we seek not to renew; some have, thankfully, not been used, but it is imperative that we maintain the ability to use them if needed; and some of the measures have proved critical to our response and are now used to keep people safe every day. To stand down the Act now would leave Britain exposed at a time when we need to be at our strongest.

This virus moves quickly, so we need to have the powers at our disposal to respond quickly. It is deeply important to me that we strike the right balance between acting at pace and proper scrutiny. I believe in the sovereignty of Parliament, I believe that scrutinised decisions are better decisions, and I believe in the wisdom of this House as the cockpit of the nation.

This has been an unprecedented time. This House has had to do many unprecedented things, many of which have been uncomfortable. I have listened to the concerns raised about scrutiny. As you pointed out earlier, Mr Speaker, there have been times when this pandemic has challenged us all and we have not been able to do this as well as we would have liked. I therefore propose that we change the approach to bringing in urgent measures. I am very grateful to all colleagues we have worked with to come forward with a proposal that will allow us to make decisions and implement them fast, yet also ensure that they are scrutinised properly.

Today, I can confirm to the House that for significant national measures with effect in the whole of England or UK-wide, we will consult Parliament; wherever possible, we will hold votes before such regulations come into force. But of course, responding to the virus means that the Government must act with speed when required, and we cannot hold up urgent regulations that are needed to control the virus and save lives. I am sure that no Member of this House would want to limit the Government’s ability to take emergency action in the national interest, as we did in March.

We will continue to involve the House in scrutinising our decisions in the way my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister set out last week, with regular statements and debates, and the ability for Members to question the Government’s scientific advisers more regularly, gain access to data about their constituencies and join daily calls with my right hon. Friend the Paymaster General. I hope these new arrangements will be welcomed on both sides of the House, and I will continue to listen to colleagues’ concerns, as I have tried my best to do throughout.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for being prepared to listen and for the constructive conversations that we have had over the last couple of weeks. As he said, Members on both sides of the House understand the importance of Ministers having the freedom to act quickly when it is necessary, but we are grateful that he and other members of the Government have understood the importance of proper scrutiny in this place and the benefits that that can bring for better government.

[Matt Hancock]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I agree with him on the point about scrutiny. I am very glad that we have been able to find a way to ensure that we can have that scrutiny and that colleagues on both sides of the House can have the opportunity to vote, but in a way that still does not fetter the Government’s need to act fast to keep people safe from this virus.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

Mr Speaker, may I begin by thanking you? Although you gave your reasons earlier for not selecting the amendments in my name and that of 80 other colleagues across the House, you also made your expectations of Government crystal clear. No one could doubt your commitment to upholding the Standing Orders of this House, Mr Speaker, and nor have you left any doubt about your resolve in defending parliamentary democracy and the right of this House to scrutinise and hold Ministers to account.

I am also pleased to be able to thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. Throughout my discussions with him, he has accepted the need to find a better approach to scrutiny and parliamentary approval of coronavirus measures. The new procedure that he has committed the Government to follow shows a genuine understanding of what has been wrong in the past and a real promise of transparency and engagement in the future. I believe the outcome we have reached is in the interests of Parliament, in the interests of better government and, most importantly, it gives the British people reassurance that measures that restrict their liberty, interfere with their family life, and very often threaten their livelihoods will not be implemented without important questions being asked and answers given in advance.

[Mr Harper]

Because it is not clear necessarily outside the House, will my hon. Friend agree that what the Secretary of State has effectively confirmed at the Dispatch Box with just the one change of the word “practicable” to “possible” is exactly what he put forward in his amendment, which we understand, for very good reasons, the Speaker was unable to select.

[Sir Graham Brady]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that intervention, because it is important to say that those of us on both sides of the House who put our names to that amendment were seeking to be eminently reasonable and accept the difficult constraints under which the Government are operating, and it is important that the Government accepted that in those terms. We believe that it was in good faith, and we will, of course, hold the Government to that.

It is also important, following this change of approach signalled by the Secretary of State, that the public—the people whom we represent—will rightly be in a position in the future to judge us, as Members of this House, on the balance that we seek to strike in the protection of their liberty, the safety of the public and their ability to support themselves and their families.

[Mr Mitchell]

I am most grateful to my hon. Friend, who has done an extremely good job, and a great service to our constituents, in the work that he did in respect of his amendment. Will he confirm that the aim of this amendment was not to confront the Government in any way, but to try to ensure that the Government use the wisdom across this House in tackling this very serious problem?

[Sir Graham Brady]

I absolutely agree. Those were two wonderful interventions from former Chief Whips; I wonder whether there are any more in the House. That is precisely the point: it is our belief that this House can work with the Government, and that our collective knowledge and the difficult questions we will ask will improve the quality of the Government’s actions and governance.

[Chris Bryant]

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us what this new procedure is?

[Sir Graham Brady]

The hon. Gentleman is an expert on procedure, and he will soon get to grips with it. It is the made affirmative procedure, which entails the setting of a commencement date in the future for measures, which will allow for a debate and vote to take place in advance of commencement. The House will therefore have that crucial ability to refuse consent.

[Chris Bryant]

But the Government decide.

[Sir Graham Brady]

These things will be brought forward. We have had the assurance, and we will hold the Government to it. The hon. Gentleman will see it very soon.

I will close by thanking those Members across the House who, by supporting my amendment publicly or privately, have helped to achieve what I believe will be an important step forward for all of us.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Monday 21st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Vitamin D is one of the many things that we have looked into, to see whether it reduces the incidence or impact of coronavirus. I have seen reports that it does, so we put it into a trial. Unfortunately, the results were that it does not appear to have any impact. That is the latest clinical advice, which is always kept under review.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that balancing the measures to tackle covid with the other health consequences, such as cancer patients going undiagnosed or not being treated in time, and the economic and social consequences is a political judgment, and does he further agree that political judgments are improved by debate and scrutiny?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I do. I come to this Dispatch Box as often as possible. I am very sorry that I was unable to come on Friday to discuss Friday’s decision, but the House was not sitting. I agree with my hon. Friend that, essentially, the more scrutiny, the better; that is my attitude. I am very happy to continue to work with him and with you, Mr Speaker, to ensure that that scrutiny can be done at the speed that is sometimes required for these decisions to be made.

Finally, on my hon. Friend’s substantive point, of course minimising the impact on the economy and on education is critical, but there are impacts on the NHS of covid cases going up—not just the need to try to minimise the negative impact that comes from restricting other treatments, such as cancer, that happened in the first peak, but the problem of the NHS operating with high levels of covid cases. Within the NHS, a higher number of cases itself has an impact on the care available for all the other conditions that we need to treat, but I look forward to working with you, Mr Speaker, to make sure that we have continued scrutiny.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Thursday 17th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

There is record testing capacity, which we work across the whole UK to deliver.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

May I ask my right hon. Friend to set out the specific criteria that must be met for the rule of six to be lifted?

[Matt Hancock]

The judgment on how we lift the rule of six will be based on a whole series of measures: not least, of course, the case rate across the country, but also the impact of those cases in terms of hospitalisations. Sadly, we are seeing hospitalisations starting to rise, and therefore we have brought in measures to try to slow the spread of the virus. We also look at test positivity and the surveys of how many cases there are around the country, not just at the total number, because of course if you put more testing in, you get more positives. We look at all those indicators and, of course, take the clinical advice, and then make a judgment.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

The answer to the second question is yes. We are rolling out the biggest ever flu vaccine programme. We continued to buy flu vaccine throughout the spring and summer, as it was obvious that we needed a much bigger programme than is normal. In the first instance, the vaccine will be available to the at-risk groups, including the over-65s and those with health conditions on the flu list. We will then expand the provision to the over-50s, depending on the take-up in the highest-risk groups. We set that out a couple of months ago. The flu jab is coming onstream soon. I was at a pharmacy this morning, where the flu jab is being rolled out from Monday. This will be accompanied by a huge advertising campaign to encourage people to get the flu vaccine.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

From Monday, the Government are imposing the most profound restrictions on people’s personal liberty and family life. Why has there not been a debate and a vote in the House of Commons this week?

[Matt Hancock]

I will take away the point my hon. Friend makes and discuss it further with the business managers. I have come to the House today to be able to answer questions on this matter. I take the point that that is not the same as the statutory instrument itself, and it is something on which I have had discussions with the business managers. Inevitably with a pandemic, we do have to move fast from the health perspective. I will make sure that I get back as soon as I can to my hon. Friend once those discussions have concluded.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Thursday 16th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

This is incredibly important. As I said before, I bow to nobody in my enthusiasm for using data to inform better decision making, hence we have been constantly improving the data available at both national and local level. There are now very sophisticated systems in place to ensure that the directors of public health can get that information. We are constantly improving the information available for those who have statutory duties and have signed data protection agreements, so they can have access to much more information, and publicly where it does not give away confidential information about individual people.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

The Secretary of State is working on a package of support for care homes with an unusually high rate of vacancies due to a lack of applications at the moment. May I impress on him that for some the situation is becoming desperate? In Trafford, the number of vacancies is now 160. A week ago it was 147. That is an increase of nearly 9% in a week. May I ask him to give those homes some hope by communicating when they can hope to hear about the support package?

[Matt Hancock]

My hon. Friend has pushed on this point repeatedly, and all I can tell him is that that is vital and ongoing work inside Government.

Covid-19 Update

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Monday 29th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

We are publishing more data on where tests are done and where those positive test results are based in order to understand better the clusters. On the hon. Lady’s point about the number of people tested, there is a long-standing issue in terms of de-confliction, and understanding and making sure we get those data right. We are working with the UK stats agency on resolving the problem, and I hope to have it resolved as soon as possible.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

At the statement on 18 May, my right hon. Friend confirmed to me that he was working on measures to support care homes that are in financial difficulties. When will he be in a position to publish those measures? A lot of care homes are facing significant difficulty right now.

[Matt Hancock]

I am working with my right hon. Friends the Communities Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer on exactly those measures.

Covid-19: R Rate and Lockdown Measures

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Monday 8th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

The answer to the hon. Gentleman’s last question is, emphatically, yes. I have regular discussions and exchanges both with the First Minister in Northern Ireland and also with my opposite number Robin Swann. We work to ensure that the response to this virus across the whole United Kingdom is as closely aligned as it reasonably can be respecting the different impacts of the disease in different parts. Thankfully, the impact of the disease in Northern Ireland has been less than in the rest of the country, and long may it remain so.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the progress in countries that are operating social distancing at 1.5 metres or 1 metre, and when does he think that we may have a review of those measures in this country?

[Matt Hancock]

That is constantly kept under review. In fact, I was reading some of the most recent science on this over the weekend. The interaction of the distance put in place and the other measures, for instance, on mask wearing and ventilation in particular, are what matters for the progress of the disease. The problem is not whether the rule is 2 metres or any different distance but that the virus transmits especially face to face—less so if people are side to side or back to back—in close quarters. Of course, being outside helps as well.

Covid-19 Response

Lord Brady of Altrincham Excerpts

Monday 18th May 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Obviously, being able to perform all tests within 24 hours would be a great success. We are trying, as much as possible, to shorten the amount of time it takes. The average time is much, much shorter than 96 hours, and I will write to the hon. Lady with an exact figure of the time that it takes in acute settings. It is much shorter than the time that she mentions. All test results under 24 hours would be great. Sometimes it is just a matter of minutes or hours depending on how busy the test centre is.

[Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con)]

May I return to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) and ask my right hon. Friend whether it is possible to give any specific support to care homes facing financial difficulties due to unusually high vacancy rates?

[Matt Hancock]

The answer that I tried to give at the end of my answer—perhaps too long an answer—to my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) is that, yes, that is something on which I am working. It is not something that I am able to announce today, but I do recognise the concerns and the challenges that the social care sector faces.