Enterprise Bill [Lords]

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Lady Hermon

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The House must be quiet, as I am trying to hear a point of order.

[Lady Hermon]

I am most grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for accepting this important point of order. I think that this is the first time that this has arisen. I am in no way challenging the certification by the Speaker of provisions in this Bill as exclusively English or English and Welsh only. The guidance I seek relates to the Order Paper published for today’s business, which on page 6, under the title “Enterprise Bill [Lords]: Second Reading”, gives a note of Mr Speaker’s certification. At the very end, it states:

“The Northern Ireland Assembly decided not to approve a Legislative Consent Motion in respect of this Bill.”

That unfortunately gives the impression that the Northern Ireland Assembly has considered the whole Bill. Since we are in a three-month trial period, I wonder whether I might have some guidance.

I will stand corrected if this is wrong, but it is my understanding that as of this evening the only provision of the Bill that the Assembly actually considered was considered on 7 December 2015. In a letter dated 9 December, the Clerk to the Assembly wrote:

“I am writing to notify you”—

that is, the Clerk of the House of Commons—

“that…the Northern Ireland Assembly did not consent to the provisions dealing with public sector exit payments contained in the Enterprise Bill”.

To the best of my knowledge, the Assembly has not yet fixed a date to consider whether to pass a legislative consent motion on the rest of the Bill. I am simply looking for guidance on the notes that appear in the Order Paper.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for drawing her concerns to the attention of the House and to my attention, and I will, of course, pass that on to Mr Speaker.

The hon. Lady is correct about the wording of page 6 of today’s Order Paper, and I appreciate what she says about what has actually occurred in the Northern Ireland Assembly, about which I have no information, but I will take it that the hon. Lady’s description is correct, in which case there might be a discrepancy between what has occurred in one place and what has occurred through this Order Paper in this place.

As the hon. Lady rightly said, we are still in the experimental stages of this type of consideration of legislation—[Interruption.] Order. The House must be quiet when I am dealing with a point of order. As I said, the hon. Lady is aware that we are still in an experimental period, and the point which the hon. Lady has made is one that ought to be taken into consideration, and it will be taken into consideration, first, I am sure, by Mr Speaker—I will draw his attention to it—and also, I am sure, by the Procedure Committee, when it looks at how this new procedure is working. I am grateful to the hon. Lady for drawing this matter to the attention of the House.

Student Maintenance Grants

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Lady Hermon

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the vote of the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) has most definitely been counted. There is no need for a recount.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. As part of the review of the House’s adoption of this appalling procedure, which excludes the votes of MPs like me who represent Northern Ireland constituencies—because certification has indicated a matter is exclusively English, despite its undoubtedly affecting my constituents—may I invite Ministers to Northern Ireland, with the promise of a warm welcome, to meet students affected by this vote or those affected by last week’s vote on the Housing and Planning Bill and explain to them why the rights of their representatives have not been honoured equally with those of other MPs?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

As I said to the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond), the whole House decided on these new Standing Orders, but of course the hon. Lady’s vote has been registered and counted and her constituents will know how she has voted. It has not been counted twice, but it has, very definitely, been counted once. She has, however, made her point properly.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Lady Hermon

Tuesday 12th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

I remind hon. Members—although I do not think hon. Members really need to be reminded—that if there is a Division on the consent motion for England and Wales, only Members representing constituencies in England and Wales may vote. This extends to expressing an opinion by calling out Aye or No when the Question is put or acting as a Teller—I know the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) knows that I recognise a Scottish voice when I hear one.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee consents to the following certified clauses and schedules of the Housing and Planning Bill and certified amendments made by the House to the Bill:

Clauses and schedules certified under Standing Order No. 83L(2) as relating exclusively to England and Wales and being within devolved legislative competence

Clauses 97, 98 and 120 to 150 of the Bill as amended in Committee (Bill 108) including any amendments made on Report;

Schedules 7 and 10 to 15 of the Bill as amended in Committee (Bill 108) including any amendments made on Report;

Amendments certified under Standing Order No. 83L(4) as relating exclusively to England and Wales

Amendments 180 and 181 made in Committee to Clause 71 of the Bill as introduced (Bill 75), which is Clause 76 of the Bill as amended in Committee (Bill 108);

Amendments 127 and 128 made in Committee to Clause 85 of the Bill as introduced (Bill 75), which is Clause 92 of the Bill as amended in Committee (Bill 108).

[Lady Hermon]

On a point of order, Madam Chairman. On a serious point of order, I am very conflicted because I do not want in any way to be critical of the Speaker and his certification, but the Speaker clearly today confirmed his provisional certification and that included reference to new clause 62 as being exclusively applicable to England. New clause 62 applies to both England and Wales. What could the Deputy Chairman advise when a certification by the Speaker—for whom I have enormous regard—appears to be flawed?

[The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The hon. Lady makes a perfectly reasonable point, and it is important that we consider points of order because this is a new procedure and the Procedure Committee has assured the House that it will be looking at the procedure and how it works in practice. What I can say to the hon. Lady is that Mr Speaker did make available in the Vote Office, and in other ways, several days ago his provisional decision on this matter, and there have been several days during which the hon. Lady, and indeed any other hon. Member, had an opportunity to make representations to Mr Speaker exactly along the lines that she has just done. Perhaps if this happens in future and the hon. Lady has similar concerns, she will have ample opportunity to take those concerns up with Mr Speaker before we get to this point in the proceedings.

[Lady Hermon]

Further to that point of order, Madam Chairman. I do apologise for not bringing this to the Speaker’s attention earlier, but I am bringing it to the House’s attention today. I would hate to think there might be any consequences because flawed procedure has been followed in this case. It is a very important point. Members are going to be asked to go through the Division Lobby—apart from those of us from Northern Ireland, about which I feel exceedingly resentful, as I think it is quite wrong; and I do have an interest in this Bill because my constituents who are landlords are affected by it. So today I would like Madam Chairman to give advice as to whether we should pause and postpone this historic occasion until we get the certification corrected by the Speaker.

[The First Deputy Chairman]

No, again the hon. Lady is making a perfectly reasonable point, but I think I have already answered it. The fact is that the House took the decision on 22 October that we would proceed as we are proceeding today. As I have said to the hon. Lady, if she has concerns about how matters work in practice both the Procedure Committee will look at this as the weeks go on and Mr Speaker will be pleased to hear from the hon. Lady if she has concerns the next time we come to this point in the proceedings. But now we will proceed.

The House forthwith resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England) (Standing Order No. 83M(4)(d)).