Standards in Public Life

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Tuesday 10th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I think the noble Lord is referring to the noble Baroness, Lady Mone. That comes back to the point I am making that the House wants to assure that it has the processes in place. The noble Baroness is at present on a leave of absence, which I do not think is a satisfactory position. I do not want to rush to judgment on any individual, but we need to have processes in place so that we can then act when any cases are brought to the attention of this House, or when we wish to do so. At the moment, there is no process in place at all for a Member to have a peerage removed, and the processes by which Members can be expelled from this House are rather limited. I can think of only one case in my time in this House when it was felt that a Member should be expelled, so we need to look at our processes.

We also need to be clear that I am confident that the overwhelming majority of Members in this House behave absolutely properly, with due diligence to their own affairs, and are here only because they want to serve the public and play a role in public life. We need to emphasise that. But where people fall short of those standards, are we confident that we have the right processes in place to take action where it is needed?

[Baroness Laing of Elderslie (Con)]

My Lords, the whole House will undoubtedly agree with what the Leader of the House has just said and will welcome her commitment to transparency and candour. When we discussed these matters in the Chamber last Thursday, I had the opportunity to ask the noble Baroness about the letter that had been written to the Prime Minister by his predecessor, Gordon Brown, one year ago, when he was asking about

“the veracity of information contained in the Epstein papers regarding the sale of assets arising from the banking collapse and communications about them between Lord Mandelson and Mr Epstein”.

I asked the noble Baroness:

“Did the Prime Minister know that his predecessor had made that request of the Cabinet Secretary? If he did not know, why was he not told? And if he did, why did he not instruct the Cabinet Secretary to undertake the investigation?”


The noble Baroness politely answered that she did not have those answers. She said:

“I do not know at this stage what the former Prime Minister asked for and whether the Prime Minister was informed, but I will find out”.—[Official Report, 5/2/26; cols. 1738-39.]


I appreciate that that was only on Thursday and this is Tuesday, but I wonder whether she has had the opportunity to find out and whether she can now answer the question.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I assure the noble Baroness that as soon as I know, she will know. I have not been able to get an answer in this short time. We have asked the question. I am not clear whether it was a letter from Gordon Brown to the current Prime Minister or what form that request took, but we are looking at that at pace to see whether we can get an answer, and I assure her that we will do so.

US Department of Justice Release of Files

Debate between Baroness Laing of Elderslie and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Thursday 5th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. His point about powerful individuals cannot be made often enough, and the impact this has had on the lives of very young people that will stay with them forever. On the sharing of sensitive information, he is right. This is a betrayal, not just of those whom Lord Mandelson was working with but a national betrayal. We do not know what damage could have been done, but certainly damage can be done when such information is shared. It is probably too early at this stage, with so many documents to go through and so many sources to try to retrieve documents from, to say exactly everything that is in there, but the Government are committed to transparency on this. We all need to know exactly what has happened. The documents in the public domain make unedifying reading. For those who were working in those areas at the time, to know that the conversations they had, the documents they signed and the decisions they took in the public interest were being relayed to somebody outside the very small number of people who should have known about them is a gross betrayal.

[Baroness Laing of Elderslie (Con)]

My Lords, it is now a matter of public record that, in February 2025, former Prime Minister Gordon Brown wrote to the Cabinet Secretary asking for an investigation into

“the veracity of information contained in the Epstein papers regarding the sale of assets arising from the banking collapse and communications about them between Lord Mandelson and Mr Epstein”.

Did the Prime Minister know that his predecessor had made that request of the Cabinet Secretary? If he did not know, why was he not told? And if he did, why did he not instruct the Cabinet Secretary to undertake the investigation?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

Those are important questions. I do not have the answers for the noble Baroness. I have seen the press reports that former Prime Minister Gordon Brown, whom I worked very closely with, has asked for the information. I do not know what trawl was done. I do not know at this stage what the former Prime Minister asked for and whether the Prime Minister was informed, but I will find out.