Development Aid: Pakistan
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, our DfID programme this year has amounted to £300 million. The important point to remember on this is that DfID is active in making the case that the most stable societies are those which uphold the right to freedom of religion and belief. The stability of the whole country is reflected in that. We also regularly challenge our partners to demonstrate that they are doing all they can to meet the needs of the most vulnerable people, including religious minorities. The point of this aid is to target those minority groups, and that is what we are doing.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that part of the problem—I came across this with two big schemes I was involved with in Pakistan—is corruption? The amount of money that trickles down to where you want it to have effect has by then gone through layer after layer of provincial governors and others who, I fear, have sticky fingers, and is very small. How can we ensure that DfID money actually hits the people who really need it, rather than feeding corruption?
The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord makes a very good point: targeting aid to those minority groups is useless if it will not reach them in the first place. One of the primary aims of the department is to ensure that the aid targeted at those minority groups actually reaches them. That is kept continually under review.
Turkey: Russian Missiles
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
Lord West of Spithead
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with the government of Turkey about that government’s purchase of surface-to-air missiles from Russia.
The Earl of Courtown (Con)
My Lords, we have raised our concerns about the Turkish Government’s purchase of S-400 missiles at ministerial and official level. Turkey is a valued NATO ally on the front line of some of the alliance’s most difficult security challenges. Defence equipment procurement decisions are for national Governments, but all NATO allies have committed to reducing their dependence on Russian-sourced military equipment. We will continue to discuss our concerns with Turkey as a friend and ally.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
I thank the Minister for his Answer. This is extremely worrying for NATO. There are real issues with the YPG and with the relationship between the US and Turkey, but I will focus on a military point. The S-400 is a very capable surface-to-air missile system. It demands the input of special IFF settings in aircraft, as well as other features, so that you do not shoot down friendly aircraft. Russian technicians will be in Turkey, getting these settings. We do not wish to give them these factors of our own aircraft. Therefore, does the Minister not think that it is absolutely correct that the Americans should say, “You will no longer be part of the F35 programme”? If that is the case—and I think it is right that they should do this—I hope that we are lobbying to see whether we can get that work in this country, to add to the 15% of the build that we already have of all F35s in the world.
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord West. He described the situation in Turkey as very worrying. This is why, of course, Turkey is now being excluded from the F35 programme, both as a partner in its manufacture and as an end user. The concerns raised by the noble Lord about mixed information, and the S-400 system and the F35 which counter each other, are very worrying indeed.
Iran: Nuclear Deal
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, my noble friend is correct in much of what he says. In parallel with our efforts to keep the nuclear deal, the UK is firm in the need to tackle Iran’s destabilising behaviour in the region, including its ballistic missile programme, but we are clear that the matter needs to remain separate from the JCPOA.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Earl is aware that before the JCPOA was signed, we were on a track that could well have ended up in a war in the Middle East because of the Israeli reaction against Iran as it became more aware of what was going on. Can the Minister confirm that we are also talking with people from Mossad and others about this issue because the loss of the JCPOA would be very dangerous and could lead to a war in the Middle East?