Rhodes Wildfires: Repatriation of Holidaymakers
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown (Con)
The noble Lord makes a very good point; that puts people in a slightly different situation. As I said, we are advising people in a vulnerable position without back-up to seek consular assistance.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, rescuing people from beaches is in the Royal Navy’s DNA, be they British soldiers or British civilians. For two centuries, the Royal Navy was there when there was a disaster in the Mediterranean. Does the Minister not agree with me that it is rather sad that over the last 10 years or so we have not had a British ship available in the region, should there be some requirement to assist our nationals?
The Earl of Courtown (Con)
I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, lives up to his reputation. The serious points are, first, that the fires in Rhodes are in an area in the centre of the island, and, secondly, that the situation is stabilising. I note what the noble Lord said.
Development Aid: Pakistan
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, our DfID programme this year has amounted to £300 million. The important point to remember on this is that DfID is active in making the case that the most stable societies are those which uphold the right to freedom of religion and belief. The stability of the whole country is reflected in that. We also regularly challenge our partners to demonstrate that they are doing all they can to meet the needs of the most vulnerable people, including religious minorities. The point of this aid is to target those minority groups, and that is what we are doing.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that part of the problem—I came across this with two big schemes I was involved with in Pakistan—is corruption? The amount of money that trickles down to where you want it to have effect has by then gone through layer after layer of provincial governors and others who, I fear, have sticky fingers, and is very small. How can we ensure that DfID money actually hits the people who really need it, rather than feeding corruption?
The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord makes a very good point: targeting aid to those minority groups is useless if it will not reach them in the first place. One of the primary aims of the department is to ensure that the aid targeted at those minority groups actually reaches them. That is kept continually under review.
Turkey: Russian Missiles
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
Lord West of Spithead
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with the government of Turkey about that government’s purchase of surface-to-air missiles from Russia.
The Earl of Courtown (Con)
My Lords, we have raised our concerns about the Turkish Government’s purchase of S-400 missiles at ministerial and official level. Turkey is a valued NATO ally on the front line of some of the alliance’s most difficult security challenges. Defence equipment procurement decisions are for national Governments, but all NATO allies have committed to reducing their dependence on Russian-sourced military equipment. We will continue to discuss our concerns with Turkey as a friend and ally.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
I thank the Minister for his Answer. This is extremely worrying for NATO. There are real issues with the YPG and with the relationship between the US and Turkey, but I will focus on a military point. The S-400 is a very capable surface-to-air missile system. It demands the input of special IFF settings in aircraft, as well as other features, so that you do not shoot down friendly aircraft. Russian technicians will be in Turkey, getting these settings. We do not wish to give them these factors of our own aircraft. Therefore, does the Minister not think that it is absolutely correct that the Americans should say, “You will no longer be part of the F35 programme”? If that is the case—and I think it is right that they should do this—I hope that we are lobbying to see whether we can get that work in this country, to add to the 15% of the build that we already have of all F35s in the world.
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord West. He described the situation in Turkey as very worrying. This is why, of course, Turkey is now being excluded from the F35 programme, both as a partner in its manufacture and as an end user. The concerns raised by the noble Lord about mixed information, and the S-400 system and the F35 which counter each other, are very worrying indeed.
Iran: Nuclear Deal
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, my noble friend is correct in much of what he says. In parallel with our efforts to keep the nuclear deal, the UK is firm in the need to tackle Iran’s destabilising behaviour in the region, including its ballistic missile programme, but we are clear that the matter needs to remain separate from the JCPOA.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Earl is aware that before the JCPOA was signed, we were on a track that could well have ended up in a war in the Middle East because of the Israeli reaction against Iran as it became more aware of what was going on. Can the Minister confirm that we are also talking with people from Mossad and others about this issue because the loss of the JCPOA would be very dangerous and could lead to a war in the Middle East?
Shipbuilding
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, the noble Lord is possibly referring to the Type 26 warship. At the moment, as for bringing that into construction, we are extending the life of the Type 23, which will ensure that the Royal Navy continues to have a quality anti-submarine capability until the Type 26 enters service—new radar and missiles, improved sonar systems, upgraded boats, improved command and control systems, and more efficient power generation equipment.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister will be aware that there is a huge difference between the order book and actual orders. In the early 1990s, we failed to order the Astute-class submarines; the end result was that it took 20 years to get our submarine building back on track, because of loss of skills. When will we actually order the Type 26 frigates? They have already been delayed. Govan, instead of taking on 100 apprentices this year, is taking on 20, and trades are already beginning to go. They will cost a lot more money, because they have been delayed. Can we not persuade the Treasury to let the MoD have some money, because it is broke, and start building them and ordering them? It is no good having them on the books and not ordered.
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, we are continuing to work with BAE Systems to further mature the Type 26 design, including our March investment of a further £472 million. Our total investment so far is £1.6 billion into the Type 26 frigates, which is hard evidence of our commitment and real progress. In common with all equipment procurement programmes, the schedule is set at the main investment decision, and we have not yet reached that decision point.
Refugee Crisis: European Anti-migrant Parties
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
Yes, that of last week and the finalisation of the agreement, at the end of this week, of what was discussed on 7 March. No, the noble Baroness shakes her head. As far as I understand her concern, the European Union has agreed that, for every Syrian readmitted by Turkey from the Greek islands, another Syrian in Turkey will be resettled in the EU. Visa-free travel for Turkey will also be accelerated, as will next steps on Turkey’s EU accession progress and the disbursement of the €3 billion agreed in December last year.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, it was quite clear last autumn that, unless we stopped the flow of refugees from Libya and Turkey into what was becoming a worse and worse Mediterranean, there would be many deaths. We still have not really got any composite plan together to stop this flow of refugees before they leave territorial seas. I know that an attempt was made with the Turkish authorities. Will the noble Earl please let us know whether we are now coming to some conclusion that will stop people going to sea? If we do not, they will die. They are dying every day.
The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord, Lord West, as ever, draws attention to some of the saddest aspects of this immigration crisis. The whole point of the summit last week was to break the business model of the people traffickers—the smugglers—and to end the link between getting in a boat and getting settlement in Europe.
Arms Sales: Saudi Arabia
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, as I said earlier, and as my noble friend emphasised, the Yemeni people are suffering from the conflict between the rebels and the elected Government. As I said earlier, in the late autumn my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary was in discussions in Saudi Arabia with the authorities there, and my honourable friend Mr Ellwood was there earlier this week discussing that area of the world.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Earl is right that compared with every other nation in the world the rules we apply to defence sales are incredibly strict and correct, but of course we have to investigate these cases very thoroughly. Specifically, although no UK military personnel are involved in events that are going on in Yemen or are giving advice on targeting, if I understand the noble Earl correctly, one of the benefits of the fact that we sometimes get involved with countries is that we are able to apply the very strict standards we have of obeying international law. Surely these people could give advice to the Saudis on how to avoid civilian casualties and so on—that must surely be within their remit or are they not allowed even to do that?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, as I understand it, the noble Lord is quite correct. I gave a brief answer saying that the UK was not involved in carrying out any of the strikes, but I can say that we have a very small number of staff in the Saudi Arabian headquarters in a liaison capacity only. These liaison officers are not involved in the targeting process, as I said earlier. Secondly, there is our ongoing defence engagement relationship with the Saudis. This is part of our long-standing relationship. When concerns are raised by non-governmental organisations or in the media, these liaison officers will pass all available information back to the United Kingdom. This will help inform our assessment of compliance with international humanitarian law.
UK Territorial Space: Spanish Incursions
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead(9 years ago)
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The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, our assessment is that the assets, structure and procedures of the Royal Navy’s Gibraltar Squadron are enough for the job but I take very careful note of what the noble Baroness said. We want to make sure that these challenging maritime incursions can be dealt with by our assets there.
Lord West of Spithead
My Lords, the Minister will be well aware that the ships we have in Gibraltar are in fact very tender, do not have very long range and are not nearly fast enough. Of course, the people manning them are very proud of them and do their best but it is their job to say that they are doing their best and they are good. The reality is that they are not good enough for the job and because of that there will be an incident where someone may be killed or badly injured. The Government of Gibraltar have said that they are willing to pay for faster, bigger craft. That has been done before with other countries we have been responsible for. Could we look at this very closely, so that we can get these new craft and then be able to do things that will not risk injury or death for our people there?
The Earl of Courtown
I listened very carefully to what the noble Lord said concerning our naval assets in Gibraltar. I will ensure that that is drawn to the attention of the department.
Diplomatic Missions: Parking Fines
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
The noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, makes a serious point. To be perfectly honest, I do not know what we are doing at the UN on this basis, but I will write to the noble Lord to find out if there is anything more that I can add. Here in the UK, we expect all foreign diplomats to abide by UK laws at all times. We take a firm line with diplomatic missions and international organisations whose diplomats commit offences.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, 210 years ago at this time Admiral Nelson lay dying on the orlop deck of HMS “Victory”. I raise this because we are discussing international organisations, and Nelson had showed the value of a British battle fleet in negotiating with international organisations. This led to 100 years of Pax Britannica. Twice in the last century the Navy ensured the survival of the nation. Does the Minister feel that it is appropriate to wish the Navy good luck on the 210th anniversary of Trafalgar?
The Earl of Courtown
I could not agree more with the noble Lord, Lord West. I was wondering what the sting in the tail would be. As we joked beforehand, he was going to suggest that we tab No. 10.
Concessionary Television Licences
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord West of Spithead
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, all noble Lords will know that I speak for the whole Government from this Dispatch Box. I repeat what I said earlier: the manifesto commitment will be retained for the whole of this Parliament.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, the BBC is a great British institution. What has been decided is quite extraordinary. BBC Monitoring has been amazingly useful over decades for foreign policy and defence—I have seen it doing that. How on earth will BBC Monitoring be properly paid for within this new construct, bearing in mind that it is not a core thing for the BBC in terms of entertainment?
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, the noble Lord mentions BBC Monitoring. I repeat once again: all these things will be up for discussion in the charter renewal.