Gambling (Categorisation and Use of B2 Gaming Machines) Bill [HL]

Earl of Courtown Excerpts

Friday 11th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Courtown (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, as ever, for this fascinating and very important opportunity to debate his Private Member’s Bill, not least because it offers the Government an opportunity to highlight existing measures in this area and to provide reassurance on what is obviously an emotive subject. All Members of the House are united in their view on these machines.

First, I will just touch on what the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said about the importance of bookmakers as a community asset. I remember from my youth spending quite a lot of time in what were then called turf accountants rather than bookmakers. The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, is nodding—he knows exactly what I am talking about. They are a very important part of the community in the villages and towns in that part of the world.

I state categorically, particularly in response to the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, that the Government understand the public concerns around B2 gaming machines and will continue to keep them under review. In April 2015, we introduced a series of measures to protect players, including regulations to end unsupervised high-stake play on B2 gaming machines and measures to give more powers to local communities by requiring planning applications to be submitted to local authorities for new betting shops.

Her Majesty’s Government subsequently conducted an evaluation of the regulations, mentioned by noble Lords, which put an end to unsupervised high-stake play on B2 gaming machines. The results were published on the government website on 21 January. In short, there are indications that, as a result of these regulations, players on B2 gaming machines may now be making a more conscious choice to control their playing behaviour. However, we believe it prudent to now consider the findings of the evaluation before deciding if there is a need for further action.

It is worth reminding the House that the industry has a responsibility to assist gamblers who display signs of problematic behaviour, including when playing these particular gaming machines. The betting industry introduced new measures in 2014 under its code on social responsibility, which was further updated in 2015. Many elements of the code were subsequently made mandatory by the Gambling Commission in its update of social responsibility provisions in its licence conditions and codes of practice in May 2015, including additional measures on gaming machines, requirements on shop window advertising and self-exclusion policies across the whole industry.

We believe that the measures that the Government, industry and the Gambling Commission are taking are currently sufficient to improve player protection across all forms of gambling, but we are equally clear that industry, along with the Government and the commission, should never feel that there is an end point to social responsibility.

The noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones, Lord Foster and Lord Collins, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans mentioned the existing powers held by local authorities. I turn to the resubmission made under the Sustainable Communities Act by Newham Council and other local authorities for the Government to reduce B2 stakes to £2. Although the resubmission is currently under consideration, the Government are determined that local authorities should play a central role in managing local gambling provision—a principle deeply embedded in the Gambling Act 2005.

Although local authorities are bound by law to aim to permit gambling in so far as reasonably consistent with the licensing objectives of preventing crime and disorder, ensuring that it is fair and open and protecting children and vulnerable people, the licensing process gives authorities considerable scope to attach additional conditions to licences where necessary to achieve the licensing objectives, to review licences once they have been granted and to impose licence conditions after review.

On planning, the Government agree that responsibility for managing high streets should rest with local areas, and local authorities already have powers to control gambling premises in their areas. On recent changes, as noble Lords mentioned, new planning measures came into force in April 2015 which mean that planning permission is required for any new betting shop, allowing for a local decision.

It would not be appropriate for me to say much more on the issue while exchanges between central government and local authorities are ongoing in the wake of the Sustainable Communities Act submission. As I said, discussions with Newham Council on its resubmission are ongoing, and we will make a decision in due course.

The noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Collins, the right reverend Prelate and other noble Lords mentioned a review. In particular, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned a point made by my honourable friend Tracey Crouch—who, I should add, takes a particular interest in the issue of B2 machines. The Government are open-minded about the review, and will set out their view in due course. The noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Foster, drew attention to the rise in crime in bookmakers. Any rise in crime is concerning, and we and the Gambling Commission will look at the figures very closely, but it is important to state that the increase is from a low base. Any crime is unacceptable, but the level is equivalent to one instance per betting shop per year.

The noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Foster, and my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay raised the issue of money laundering—and we had amazing instruction from my noble friend Lord James of Blackheath. The Gambling Commission already requires operators to take measures to prevent money laundering through its licensing conditions and codes of practice, and it is currently consulting on regulatory changes to strengthen the fight against crime linked to gambling. In addition, the Treasury plans to consult shortly on the EU’s fourth directive on money laundering, which will introduce further measures in this area.

The noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Foster, raised the issue of planning powers in relation to bookmakers. Local authorities already have powers to control gambling premises in their areas. They can reject applications, grant licences with conditions, review them once granted and impose licence conditions after review.

My noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of B2s in Scotland. As they said, the Scotland Bill contains the agreed clauses necessary to take forward the Smith commission recommendation on B2s. The Bill will give the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Ministers the power to vary the number of subcategory B2 gaming machines permitted by new betting premises licences in line with the recommendations made by the commission. Both noble Lords raised other points in connection with that issue, and I will write to them to clarify our position.

The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, raised an issue relating to the recent Paddy Power case. The dereliction of duty by Paddy Power is completely unacceptable. The case shows that bookmakers will not be able to get away with failing to meet their licence conditions. Gambling firms have a duty to comply with their licence rules to the letter, and must ensure that there is absolute consistency across their business. The Government will continue to monitor the effectiveness of existing gambling controls, and will take further action if required.

My noble friend Lord James of Blackheath and the noble Lord, Lord Foster, raised the issue of spin time. As they said, the spin time of B2 machines is about 20 seconds, compared to a rather faster B3 gaming machine, which has a spin cycle of about 2.5 seconds. As noble Lords will be aware, there is limited evidence on the impact of game speed on gambling-related harm. The Government are of course happy to consider any new evidence to inform policy in this area.

Several noble Lords, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned problem gamblers on B2 machines. It is important to clarify this point. The sample of gamblers used in the RGT research was specifically sought to include a high proportion of problem gamblers to assess their behaviour on those gaming machines. The sample is therefore not entirely representative of wider gaming-machine players.

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans and the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, also raised the issue of tax on B2 machines. I do not have the information available at present, and I will of course write to the noble Baroness and the right reverend Prelate. The Government understand the concerns about problem gambling and, in particular, about fixed-odds betting terminals. We are clear that this issue will be kept under continual review.

I re-emphasise that we will continue to keep this under review as well as the points relating to stake size. The Government continue to monitor the effects of existing controls and, if need be, will take action if they are found to be insufficient. The principal purpose of the Bill is to reduce the maximum B2 stake. There is no need to use a Bill to do this as a stake reduction could be achieved using the existing powers set out in the Gambling Act 2005, which enables changes to stakes and prizes for all types of gambling machines to be made via secondary legislation. However, the Government recognise that problem gambling, which has remained at less than 1% of the adult population, is not limited to one product or one issue, such as stake size. Making changes to B2 stakes now would tie the Government’s hands when trying to promote a comprehensive strategy.

[Lord Clement-Jones]

My Lords, before we proceed any further, can the Minister give us an indication of the timing of the review?

[The Earl of Courtown]

I am sorry I have not referred to that point, which was also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. I cannot give any indication of that, but as soon as I am able to give any indication I will write to noble Lords and put a copy in the Library. At the moment, I am not able to give any more information.

We recognise this problem. The Bill would tie the Government’s hands when trying to promote a comprehensive strategy to tackle problem gambling across the piece. The Government therefore express reservations about the Bill.