Covid-19: Aligning UK and Foreign Entry and Return Requirements

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Monday 19th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend that co-ordination of vaccine certification is a massive priority. We are working extremely closely, particularly with our close friends in America and the EU, to have mutual recognition of certification. Whether that certification is tied to the passport is up to the tastes of local countries. In the UK we are putting certification in the NHS app, and it feels right that that should be contained and limited to health records rather than national identity documents. However, each country will have its own approach.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister has previously promised to look at the cost of tests for travel purposes, yet the very wide variation in price from the 402 providers the Government list on their website—most of them well over £100 per test—is surely quite confusing for the public when, essentially, we are talking about the same product, even if the details of provision may vary, and critically so. Will the Government look at this, and indeed at the costs themselves?

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I do look at the costs and have regular meetings with the team to look at this. I pay tribute both to officials and to the industry for standing up an enormous number of tests. I believe that, between 30 June and 7 July, 182,137 tests of people quarantining at home were registered and processed, and 18,946 by those who manage quarantine. That is an enormous number and pays tribute to the industry. A variety of costs reflects a variety of different services and in itself is not a problem—but we are driving the costs down and the industry is responding accordingly.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Thursday 8th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I know that my noble friend is sceptical of almost everything to do with the Government, and I am not quite sure how to address that question—but I will take it seriously. The bottom line is that children are a vector of infection, and, during the tough days before the vaccine, they were the ones who spread the disease around, accounting for a very large proportion of the numbers. As a father of four, I can tell you that it was extremely frustrating to have our children sent home, but, none the less, it was an important and impactful aspect of our fight against Covid.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, at the press conference on Monday, the Prime Minister drew a distinction between crowded Tube trains and relatively empty carriages on trains, where he might choose not to wear a mask. The Health Secretary made exactly the same point on Tuesday’s “Today” programme. However, the Minister will be aware of the research showing that aerosols can hang in the air for many hours in enclosed spaces—which train carriages are. Despite what the Minister has just said about face masks, will that important factor be taken into account when a final decision is made about mask wearing on trains and other public transport?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord will remember that, when we spoke about masks the day before yesterday, I re-emphasised my personal commitment to wearing masks. In no way do I want to leave noble Lords with the impression that I do not think that masks can play a role—I just do not think that we should be guilty of displacement and assume that masks will somehow solve all of our problems. The thing that will solve all our problems is the vaccine, and, when a larger proportion of the country is vaccinated, that will make an impact. But the noble Lord is entirely right: aerosols do hang in the air for a long time. You can breathe and cough into the air now, and someone can walk into that cloud minutes or even an hour later and catch the disease, as happened in the famous incident in Australia. We are very conscious of the point that the noble Lord makes, but a proportionate strategy on masks is reasonable.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 6th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am very grateful to my noble friend for raising the office for health protection, because it is an office that I am extremely hopeful for. It will be giving clinical leadership from the CMO. It will bring together all the enormous resources of data that we have brought together in the pandemic response. It will, I hope, capture the national mood around healthy living, including, as my noble friend rightly points out, eating habits and physical activity habits. It will work through local authorities, it will not be a large organisation like UKHSA is, but I hope it will have an enormous impact. I look forward very much indeed to discussing it more in this Chamber.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, come 19 July it will be all too easy to assume that everything is okay in the arts and night-time economy. Is the Minister aware of the recent Public Accounts Select Committee report which says that without a government-backed insurance scheme there is a “survival threat to festivals”—pretty strong words. The report also backs further support for freelancers and the technical supply organisations decimated by Covid. It will be a hard road back, and I hope the Government continue their support, including plugging the gaps in support that remain.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I do think we have an opportunity, now that the pressure has backed off a bit, to be thinking a lot more about the exactly the sort of subject that the noble Earl raised. I am an avid festival goer, and extremely sad about the way in which they have been hit so hard. The role of freelancers in the arts is absolutely critical. I know that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture Media and Sport has these points very high on his list of priorities.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 29th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the points made by my noble friend and to the persuasive and energetic way in which he made them. Our thoughts go to those in Nepal, who face an awful position; the pandemic there is running extremely hot. I reassure my noble friend that colleagues at both the Department of Health and the FCDO are fully aware of the concerns of the noble Lord and the Nepalese people. We will put in place the kind of vaccination provision programme that we would like to see as soon as we can. Our priority for the moment is the UK. For all the reasons I just described, we must continue the march towards 19 July and get our own people vaccinated. However, my noble friend makes the point well; the sums involved are relatively small and we will seek to address them as soon as we reasonably can.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, there is a growing feeling in the arts that they are being taken for a ride. Up to 60,000 will attend the Euro semis but festivals such as Kendal Calling, with less than half of that capacity, and now WOMAD, have had to cancel because they have no access to the Events Research Programme data or to a government-backed insurance scheme. On top of that, despite the Costello study, our amateur choirs are restricted to six while professional choirs in similar settings are not. For the arts, none of this makes sense.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I completely understand the noble Earl’s points. On WOMAD, I have a particular interest in that fine festival and I am extremely sad to hear that it has been cancelled, and to have to change my family plans accordingly. I reassure the noble Earl that we have not overlooked the arts at all. They are absolutely paramount in our thoughts. The events research programme is making progress, but it consumes a high number of tests and we simply do not have the capacity, despite the huge investment we have made, for the kinds of figures that would be needed to open up the whole of the arts world at this stage. But I am hopeful that the research we are doing will create the kind of persuasive data necessary to figure out safe ways of reopening the arts, so that we can get back to the life we had as soon as possible.

Covid-19: Proof of Vaccination

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Monday 14th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, I am a little confused by what the Minister is saying. Is he saying that we are not going to get a proper Covid passport, as the EU will be offering from 1 July and Ireland from 19 July in both digital and physical options? Could he answer that in detail?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise for not being clearer; I will be crystal clear right now. Today, you can have a digital certificate on your iPhone, you can have a digital certificate that is printed out from your computer or you can call a number and have a paper certificate sent to you in the post immediately. All of those options are live today.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Thursday 4th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, they are issued with a certificate. It is a digital certificate that is put in their patient record. In the modern day, that is by far the most effective way to ensure that people know that they have had the vaccine. A physical card has the potential for fraud. We have looked that extremely carefully, but we think the digital approach is the right one. Most people will receive a small card with their second dose appointment on it, but if my noble friend did not get one, I am sorry about that.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, following on from that question, the need for vaccination passports to travel abroad, discussed earlier, now looks very likely, including, of course, to the EU, which will have its own standard. All the talk is of a phone app, but will the Government ensure that a paper version will be provided which will be acceptable abroad? A significant minority of older people still do not have mobile phones, and why should OAPs have to buy one in order to travel?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, in this matter, we will be led by international standards, and collaboration with our neighbours is essential when it comes to matters of international travel. If a paper certificate is required for international travel, we will put in place arrangements for that. A huge amount of the work that goes on for foreign travel nowadays happens before you ever get anywhere near the airport to depart. Passenger locator forms, pre-testing and vaccination certificates are all necessary in order to book a ticket, and that is where, really, the responsibility of the individual lies.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Monday 14th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I do not know the precise legal powers of the marshals, but I remind the House that city centres and public areas frequently have civilian marshals of one kind or another to help guide public gatherings. This is a not uncommon aspect of city and public life, and I have an enormous amount of faith in the good sense of the British public to go along as requested without legal mandation.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the WHO’s watchword has been “test, test, test” to isolate the disease, so I am in favour of the Prime Minister’s stated ambition of mass testing. With regard to Operation Moonshot, have the Government a date in mind for testing audience members at theatres and sports venues? Secondly, does the Minister agree that we should now be testing at airports, as British Airways is asking for?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, we have embraced the “test, test, test” recommendation in a very big way, and the noble Earl is entirely right to aspire to using testing to enable a return to the economy, theatreland and all sorts of public gatherings. We are looking energetically at this, working with suppliers, academia and the NHS to figure out ways of using the new testing technologies in the way he describes.

However, we are at a relatively early stage and I am not able to make announcements on this here today. We have funded—to the tune of £500 million—a huge amount of investment in these technologies and, when they are right, we will roll them out in the theatres and airports of Britain.

Coronavirus

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Monday 22nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend Lord Pickles is entirely right to say that people in some professions are clearly at higher risk. Bus drivers, taxi drivers and hospital porters are three such professions, and I pay tribute to those who put themselves in harm’s way in order to serve the public. The Prime Minister announced, I think two weeks ago, a special programme to introduce regular, asymptomatic testing to protect people in those professions, and we are working very closely with their representatives to roll out the necessary schemes at pace.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB) [V]]

My Lords, in view of the large number of cases that have been confirmed at a meat processing plant in Anglesey and the likely reduction in social distance, will the Government seriously consider extending the mandatory wearing of face masks for people in enclosed spaces, including workplaces, for staff and customers in shops, and certainly for staff in restaurants and pubs?

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, the introduction of face masks is something that has been recommended by the Government, but the mandatory wearing of them is not. We are looking at the various recommendations from SAGE to inform the proposals that might come after the lifting of social distancing, but our focus remains on hygiene, social distancing and isolation. Those are the three most effective measures and we remain committed to them for the moment.

Covid-19: Response

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness undoubtedly knows that anyone who is ill with anything whatever should not go to a hospital. Being ill is not the same as having the symptoms of Covid-19. Anyone who has the symptoms of Covid-19 should isolate immediately.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, what support is the Department for Health and Social Care giving schools in the provision of the PPE needed before schools open?

[Lord Bethell]

It is the responsibility of the Department for Education to provide schools with PPE.

Covid-19: NHS Contact Tracing App

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Monday 18th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, the Bluetooth used by the app is the latent Bluetooth, which does not need to be turned on and off. Our advice is for everyone to ensure that they keep their Bluetooth on. In fact, we will be issuing specific advice to doctors and other health workers who spend a lot of time in each other’s company, to ensure that the app does not create erroneous data.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

Does the Minister agree that immunity or health certificates have the potential to be socially divisive and foster prejudice if they were valued by employers? Why else would you want them? They would also implicitly endorse the Government’s original, much vilified, herd immunity policy. They are a terrible idea and the Government would be wise not to go down this road.

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, I completely hear the noble Earl’s reservations about certification. Our plans are in development. We are fully aware of the concerns that he has expressed about their potentially divisive nature, but the public deserve to know whether they have had the disease. We have to use whatever technology we can to help shake off the economic and social effects of this virus. Therefore, we retain an open mind on the use of certification.

Covid-19: Testing

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Thursday 14th May 2020 Lords Chamber

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Bethell) (Con)]

My Lords, testing is a critical part of the Government’s test and trace programme. It will enable the UK to start to come out of some elements of lockdown. We salute the efforts and innovation of our NHS, public health and private sector partners. Their hard work will bring forward the easing of important restrictions that keep people safe and protect our NHS.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, public health specialists have been worried from the beginning of this crisis that a large-scale nationwide test, trace and isolate infrastructure was not straightaway put in place. I did not hear the word “isolate” in the Minister’s reply. Will the Government yet set this up, perhaps headed by an independent epidemiologist? To that end, will they address the concern that commercial lab test results are not reaching councils and the local NHS so that proper action can be taken to isolate and eradicate this virus across all communities before lockdown is substantially eased?

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, I pay tribute to Public Health England, which stood up the CTAS system that provided track and trace services at the beginning of the epidemic. I pay tribute to Dido Harding, the track and trace director whose appointment was announced earlier this week. I pay tribute to Professor John Newton, who provides scientific guidance and co-ordination for the track and trace programme.

Covid-19

Debate between Earl of Clancarty and Lord Bethell

Thursday 23rd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord, Lord Robathan, makes a fair point. I reassure him that we are investing in a massive 20,000-person surveillance by the ONS to get to the bottom of the mystery which he describes. Every piece of evidence we have from every country around the world suggests that the number of people who have been through the disease is a tiny proportion of the population, and that the amount of recovery and antibody immunity in the country is likely to be in single figures. This is one of the great challenges of the virus and the situation it presents to us.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, a test, track and trace policy is clearly right, but a week ago, Matt Hancock admitted that 15,000 people a day are entering the UK through airports without medical checks. In just over a month’s time, that will be an extra half a million people entering the country, many of whom may have Covid. Will the Government address this and plug what is surely a gap in their Covid policy?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, is right that our present guidelines state that those arriving in Britain should isolate if they have symptoms and seek a test from a hospital if it develops seriously. It is clear to me that the way we travel around the world is set to change dramatically in the future, but the CMO has reviewed our airport and port guidelines. He is happy with them, and the evidence suggests that this is not currently a source of new infections in the UK.