Universal Credit Roll-out

Drew Hendry Excerpts

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mhairi Black]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point because I want to say to Conservative Members that none of us is lying about our experiences. We are not making things up. We are coming to the House with genuine problems that the Government are failing to address.

DWP figures show that around one in four new claimants waits longer than six weeks to be paid—a 25% failure rate: staggeringly alarming given that universal credit is still in its early days. Benefit delays remain a primary reason for the increase in the use of food banks. Citizens Advice has found that, from 52,000 cases, those on universal credit appear to have, on average, less than £4 a month left to pay all their creditors after they have paid essential living costs.

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mhairi Black]

I will keep going.

To progress with the roll-out of universal credit as it stands is callous at worst and arrogantly idiotic at best. We have heard multiple times that people can now apply for an advance payment, but the fact is that those advance payments are nothing more than a loan that has to be paid back at a later date. Simply changing the terms of that loan does nothing about the litany of systemic failures throughout the entire process. All it is doing is creating more of a burden on claimants and forcing people to deal with a problem that is not their fault in the first place.

The Government are almost starting to behave like some kind of pious loan shark, except instead of coming through people’s front door, they are coming after their mental health, their physical wellbeing, their stability and their sense of security. That is the experience of all our constituents.

This debate got me thinking about how all this has coincided with seven years of cuts and failures. The Government have failed to rebalance our economy, and they have failed to reach their own fiscal targets. We are not dealing with the national debt; we are simply shifting it on to vulnerable households. We have the worst decade of wage growth in 210 years. To put it in context, that is the length of time since the Napoleonic wars—that is how bad it is just now.

Scratch beneath the surface and we see that things are not as they appear. All we get is clichés about being strong and stable—scratch beneath it, and it is nothing like the truth. We are told that all these cuts are fine because we are introducing a national living wage—scratch beneath the surface, and it is a total lie because the national living wage is 95p below the real living wage.

I have sat in the Chamber and heard over and over again from Tory MPs that the social security reforms have been put in place to incentivise work. That is fair enough, but the Government cannot even incentivise their own Scottish Tory MPs to turn up and miss a football game in Barcelona—don’t dare talk about incentivising. I have heard the Government use that argument time and time again to justify their choosing to keep slashing money for the poor. The argument is used to justify the two-child policy and their sickening rape clause. [Interruption.] Conservative Members should listen for a wee second. I have heard it used to justify the sanctions regime while I have stood in this very Chamber and implored the Government to make it more humane—[Interruption.]

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[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

The principle of simplifying the social security system is a good one, but surely that should mean simplifying it for the people who depend on it, such as my constituent Mhairi, who made 26 entries in her journal without any response before we had to get involved as an MP’s office.

In 2013, Inverness was a pilot area for universal credit. We have a simple view. We thought we would see what the problems were and report them to the Government, who would look at them and fix them. What actually happened was a one-sided arrangement. We were telling them about the problems in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017. There were endless ministerial meetings, debates, questions and letters asking—begging—them to sort out the shambles, but nothing was done.

For those who do not think that universal credit is affecting rent arrears, I should say that Highland Council went from tens of thousands of pounds to nearly £2 million in rent arrears. That was entirely down to universal credit. There have been rent arrears, short payments, long delays, lost paperwork, evictions, crushed staff morale, and, until today, a premium rate for phone calls—I commend for my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) for his work on that.

We have 200 cases. There has been humiliation, degradation, desperation. Thank goodness for the support of the citizens advice bureau, the Highland Council support team and the jobcentre staff themselves. We have had single mums going from Christmas through to April without payments and living on food vouchers. Cancer patients have had to go without payments, getting short payments when the time came.

The Prime Minister said that the Government were listening and acting. For four years, that has not been our experience. I lay down this challenge for anybody on the Government Benches: come to Inverness, come to speak to our users, come to our summit on universal credit and hear from the people. I dare them to do that: to listen to the people who are being affected.

Telephone Calls to the DWP

Drew Hendry Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to see you in your place, Mr Speaker. Congratulations to you on your re-election, Sir.

I would first like to thank the voters of Glasgow South West for sending me back to Parliament. They have re-elected a left-wing anti-austerity Member of Parliament, which is what I pledged to be during the election campaign.

There are many divisions in the House of Commons—literal Divisions when we troop through the voting Lobbies, party divisions both between and within, and differences in age, gender, ethnicity and education. However, I am now coming to the view that one of the biggest differences is between those of us who view social security as a right that should be administered with the utmost care for human dignity and those who view it as a privilege that can and should be denied or strictly limited.

I believe that there are two types of MP—those who view “I, Daniel Blake” and see the reality of their casework reflected in the film, and those who refuse to believe that the social security system is rigged and is actively pushing working people into poverty and punishing the most vulnerable in society. I am not suggesting that the only way an MP can gain insight into the failings of the social security service is by dealing with hundreds of Department for Work and Pensions cases, but surely anyone with an ounce of empathy would know that the system is deeply flawed, even if they have had only a handful of distressed people at their surgeries.

In the opening scene of “I, Daniel Blake”, the character is on the phone for more than an hour. I am sure I am not the only Member of Parliament who has had constituents telling them about similar cases. Here are just some of mine: a jobseeker’s allowance claimant who has told me of a phone call that cost £9; an employment and support allowance claimant who has told me of a phone call that cost them £16; and a constituent pursuing a disability living allowance claim on behalf of his daughter who has told me of a phone call that cost him £18. I ask the Minister and the House, is it right that a JSA claimant receiving £73.10 a week needs to make a phone call costing £9 to receive their entitlement? Is it right that an ESA claimant receiving £73.10 a week needs to make a phone call costing £16 to receive their entitlement? Is it right that a DLA claimant receiving a weekly entitlement of £76.90 has to make a phone call costing £18?

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend is talking about the injustice of the amount of money that people have to pay. Does he agree that many people have no money because of broken promises on their payments, which is driving them to food banks as their last resort?

[Chris Stephens]

I do agree. In fact, I would say that food banks have probably been the only growth industry in the United Kingdom in the past seven years, as many Members of Parliament can see.

I believe the answer to the questions that I have just asked the Minister is no. The reason I continue to campaign on this telephone tax is that it adds insult to injury. It is just one more financial kick in the teeth when people are paying for access to information and support. When every penny counts, call charges hit hard, and the lack of clarity as to which lines are free and which ones come with a cost does not help. The Government’s own website states that some telephone calls can cost 55p a minute. Can the Minister confirm whether the gov.uk website provides accurate information on charges for calls to the DWP?

Call charges do not just eat into people’s benefits; I suggest that they actively deter people from calling because they fear incurring charges either from the lines themselves or from a mobile phone provider. As I look deeper into the issue and ask more questions, more disturbing information comes to light. There are serious flaws in the digital-by-design model. Exclusion is built into the system. A written question I tabled just before Dissolution revealed that, in the whole of the Glasgow South West constituency, there are only 16 PCs for thousands of claimants. I am sure the Minister will be happy to know that a few follow-up questions are on the way to him, but today he could answer these: what are the Government going to do to increase computer literacy and access in DWP offices; and does the Department for Work and Pensions agree that those who have received a financial penalty—a sanction—or who have been paid late should have to pay for a telephone call to the DWP to chase up their entitlement? I am calling for free phone calls to access every aspect of the Department for Work and Pensions, but especially for those who have been sanctioned or hit by late payments. Someone paid late should not have to access a chargeable phone line to chase up money they are owed by the state.

Incredibly, there are no telephone lines at all for universal credit claims or inquiries—it is a completely digital service. What about those with no digital access, or who are not computer-literate or even literate? I accept that that is a whole other issue, but we need to recognise that basic literacy skills are not universal, and nor is English everyone’s first language. Will the Government consider a special telephone line for universal credit claimants?

I have already said there are issues with mobiles and price plans. I am calling for the Government to work with mobile and landline providers to improve that. A price plan can determine what someone pays in reality, but if they go over and above those limits, they incur penalty charges and costs increase. Since April, penalty charges on non- inclusive calls have increased dramatically, meaning that someone on a lengthy call to the Department for Work and Pensions will see the cost escalate.

The Government promised a review following the 2016 Social Security Advisory Committee report, which criticised the Government and asked for free phone lines to be put in place. The Government stated that that would cost £7 million, but they also made a number of recommendations, including having a call-back system. Like many a frustrated claimant, we are still waiting. When can we expect the review to be published, and will it include working with mobile and landline providers to reduce, and as far as possible eliminate, costs for DWP claimants? Is £7 million not a small amount of the overall Government budget to ensure that the most vulnerable and those in need do not pay for telephone calls that they cannot afford?

It is bad enough that official helplines hit callers with added costs, but on top of everything else, there is a thriving business in ripping off the vulnerable—the so-called call connections websites, which advertise Government services phone numbers and claim to provide a service. In essence, they are fake premium-rate connection numbers. The Government have described them in a ministerial response to me as unethical but not illegal.

What action is the Department for Work and Pensions taking to eliminate advertised call connection numbers, which are charging premium rates to the most vulnerable in society? Is it not time that we stopped those scammers? The Fair Telecoms campaign has done good work on exposing those scams, and has called for Ofcom and the Phone-paid Services Authority to take the necessary action. However, I would suggest that the Government need to take a lead and work with the authorities to stamp out that practice. Will the Minister commit to doing that and meet the relevant parties to take action?

Failure to act on the concerns raised by me and those who campaign against the telephone tax would indicate that this is not a priority for the Government, and that fairness and social justice do not feature high on their agenda. My concern is that Brexit will skew Government time and attention away from addressing these issues, but I intend to use as much parliamentary time as is available to me to keep this front and centre. Financial penalties and hardship are being inflicted on people every day because the inquiry lines and support services are not fit for purpose.

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[The Minister for Employment (Damian Hinds)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) on securing this debate on the cost of calling the Department for Work and Pensions. I also thank him for his continued interest in these important matters.

At the DWP we seek to ensure the correct balance between delivering high levels of customer service and experience and balancing the demands on the public purse and therefore protecting the taxpayer. The DWP’s policy is that calls to claim benefit should be free, so it uses 0800 telephone numbers for such calls. The Department uses 0345 telephone numbers where customers call for other reasons. These are calls that typically take less time to resolve. The exception to this is universal credit, as the service is designed to be accessed online and telephony services are used as a fall-back.

[Drew Hendry]

The Minister says that those services are supposed to be online. Does he realise that accessing them online is not always an option for people in rural areas? That is why phone calls are so important for people in rural constituencies, as well as others who cannot access them online.

[Damian Hinds]

Yes, of course I recognise that. I represent a rural constituency myself, and it is important to have other options available where necessary. It is also the case that when we are dealing with people seeking work, for example, being able to get online is vital for that purpose. That is one of the reasons why we also ensure IT provision inside jobcentres.

It would not be an effective use of public money to build universal credit around a freephone telephone number, but where customers need to call DWP regarding their claim, it is through an 0345 number. The costs of calling an 0345 telephone number are set by individual providers, but they are never more than the cost of calling geographic numbers, which have 01 and 02 dialling codes. Calls to 0345 telephone numbers are typically included in any free or inclusive minutes in a caller’s landline or mobile telephone contract. Although there are a multitude of service providers and tariffs, I can confirm that calls to 0345 telephone numbers are included in bundled minutes for mobile services by the biggest providers—EE, 02 and Vodafone—as well as most of the others.

I know that in the past the hon. Gentleman has raised the use of more expensive 0845 telephone numbers. I am pleased to be able to confirm that the DWP does not use 0845 telephone numbers in any of its communication channels. We replaced 0845 numbers with 0345 numbers during 2014 and 2015. That process was completed before the Ofcom changes in call charges came into effect in 2015, making calls to 0845 numbers more expensive. After the DWP 0345 numbers were introduced, customers calling an old DWP 0845 telephone number would receive a recorded message informing them that they should dial the correct 0345 number. There was no charge for the call to the old 0845 telephone number.

I appreciate, of course, that some of the most vulnerable people in society have to contact DWP services, which is why, if callers express concern about the cost of a call, we offer to call them back. The Department provides controlled access to telephones for claimants in jobcentres, when required, to help with any benefit inquiries. It has also expanded its “once and done” service centre approach across its working-age, disability and specialist sites, so that it can meet a claimant’s needs during the first call whenever possible. It continues to review and identify opportunities for integrating telephony and benefit-processing activity further to improve the service it delivers.

The Department is proactive in considering how further to reduce any potential cost impact on customers when they need to transact business. As Members will know, in delivering welfare reform, universal credit is designed to be accessed online, with telephony services used as a back-up. The universal credit experience is delivering an effective channel shift away from the use of telephony, with over 90% of new claims made through digital interfaces and away from the telephone.