Scotland Bill

Debate between David Mundell and Yvette Cooper

Monday 9th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State will know that it is not in the gift of any one Minister to make such a decision. He is actually proposing a very substantial change to the framework of abortion legislation. In fact, he has done no proper, substantial consultation. We will have just a few minutes in the House to discuss something that is so substantial and such a big change to the Abortion Act 1967. Does he really think that a few minutes’ discussion now, and the limited conversations between Scotland Office and Scottish Government officials, is the right way to do this?

[David Mundell]

My starting point is that I believe that the Scottish Parliament has the capacity to deal with this issue. It is in danger of verging on the patronising to suggest that the Scottish Parliament is not capable of dealing with it. Even though it is an issue of great importance and conscience, I am satisfied that the Scottish Parliament has the capacity to deal with it.

[David Mundell]

I do not totally agree with that analysis, either. However, I am strongly of the view that there is no constitutional reason not to devolve abortion. The Scottish Parliament has responsibility for most aspects of the NHS and the criminal justice system.

[Yvette Cooper]

Does the Secretary of State not realise that he is setting up two different systems, one for Scotland and one for England and Wales, when we know from other parts of the world that that leads to women having to travel for abortions at a vulnerable time? That issue of principle—deciding whether it is right for people to have to travel—is important. I hope that many of our Scottish colleagues will agree with us about the importance of the 1967 Act. I know that there is strong agreement from the First Minister. However, there is an issue of principle in whether we think it is right to increase the likelihood of women having to travel at a vulnerable time. Does he think it is right to do that without proper consultation with women across not just Scotland, but England—

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Mundell and Yvette Cooper

Wednesday 4th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[David Mundell]

I think it would be helpful if I confirmed that because abortion law is being devolved, that does not mean that there will be any change. The existing arrangements will continue to apply in Scotland until they are changed by the Scottish Parliament. I am very pleased to note that the First Minister of Scotland has confirmed that she has no plans at all to change the existing abortion law in Scotland.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

May I urge the Minister to think again about the devolution of abortion to Scotland? To have smaller jurisdictions making such sensitive decisions on healthcare is deeply unwise and would allow those who want to lobby against the interests of healthcare to undermine the interests of women both in Scotland and in England. I urge him to consult far more widely before making this very big step.

[David Mundell]

I recognise, of course, the concerns the right hon. Lady raises, but the Scottish Parliament already has responsibility for criminal justice and health issues, and it has dealt with some very sensitive issues extremely well in my view. I have spoken to women’s groups in Scotland such as Engender, Abortion Rights Scotland and Scottish Women’s Aid. They believe that the devolution can take place but want to be consulted about that, and they will be.