Business of the House

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 24th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

This is absolutely fascinating, but we are not going to embark upon a philosophical discussion on the matter of sovereignty. This treats of the business of the House for Monday, nothing more, nothing less; brevity is required.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I just want to be clear: is the Leader of the House’s motion on Monday under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 24th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[David Hanson]

May I first take a moment to congratulate you, Mr Speaker, on serving 10 years in the Chair? That is worthy of recognition.

Will the Minister give some indication of when the results of the consultation on the restraint of children will be published? The consultation closed in January 2018, having commenced in 2017. When is it going to happen?

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman very warmly for what he has said.

EU Exit Preparations: Ferry Contracts

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 5th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you had any indications, given the current situation, of whether the Secretary of State for Health or the Secretary of State for Transport will be responding to the debate? It is important, given the detail of the matter to be debated in the House today.

[Mr Speaker]

I am happy to accommodate the right hon. Gentleman. The presence of the Secretary of State for Transport is not ornamental. He has come into the Chamber, and my very clear understanding from him is that he wishes to speak in the debate. My expectation is that he will speak relatively early.

Eurotunnel: Payment

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 4th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Well, the Secretary of State has said what he has said, and colleagues will make their own assessment of it. I thank him for coming to the Dispatch Box.

[David Hanson]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Secretary of State said in response to me a moment ago that the Seaborne Freight issue was nothing to do with this contract and the payment of £33 million to Eurotunnel, but it self-evidently and centrally is. Could you give me some advice as to how we can ensure that Ministers at the Dispatch Box who do not have departmental responsibility are better briefed and/or that the real Secretary of State comes to this House to answer legitimate questions on factual matters about which this Secretary of State does not know?

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the right hon. Gentleman’s question was more rhetorical than not, and there was not really a question mark at the end of it. I can only say, for my own part, that when discharging my duties to the best of my ability this morning, I was rather under the impression that the urgent question was about the cancellation of the contract on account of legal action and that it was to do with Seaborne Freight. It may be that my interpretation was notably eccentric, but I do not think so. I think I was pretty clear what it was about, and that my assessment was shared by the team that accompanies me at the 12 o’clock meeting on a Monday morning.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 5th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call David Hanson—in a sentence.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

The number of outstanding repairs in prisons is 22,000 higher than this time last year and the number of outstanding planned repairs is 9,000 higher. Why is this?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 20th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Daniel Kawczynski. He is not here. Mr Richard Graham. Not here. I hope that neither of the Members concerned is indisposed. It is most unlike them not to be present, but they were informed of the grouping, I am sure, by the Government. [Interruption.] Okay—thank you. Well, never mind—they are not here and we cannot take them, but other Members are here, and we are delighted to see it. Mr David Hanson.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

The number of installations under solar has fallen by 90% in the past two years. Taking up the point made by the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), what steps is the Minister taking to ensure, first, that providers are still in place next year to continue to grow this sector; and secondly, that customers are not subsidising large energy companies?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 5th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will have the tribute framed. It would be very disappointing if he did not.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

What assessment has the Minister made of the number of people who have used Help to Buy who are now in negative equity because of leasehold reform? They cannot sell the properties and the price has fallen, so the taxpayer and the individual are hit.

Universal Credit

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 5th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I allowed some injury time on two accounts. The first was that I had to intervene a number of times in regularising the debate. The second was that I wanted to facilitate a reasonable number of questions, so I ran the urgent question for half an hour, rather than for 20 minutes. I am sorry that some colleagues are disappointed, but I think that was a reasonable treatment of the issue. I gather that the right hon. Member for Delyn (David Hanson) has a point of order that directly flows from the urgent question, and if he puts it extremely briefly, I will hear it, although I offer no guarantee of any response.

[David Hanson]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Given that the Secretary of State said that she had afforded her apology to the House on the basis of the interventions I made and my two questions on Monday, is it in order for her not to write to me, as the Member concerned, to tell me that she was making a statement and/or that she was correcting the record from Monday?

[Mr Speaker]

Nothing disorderly has happened. It is perfectly in order for the Secretary of State not to write to the right hon. Gentleman. In retrospect, it might have been wise for her to do so, but the past is the past and, to be fair, it is not for me to arbitrate on the merits or demerits of policy or even, outside the Chamber, of conduct. Suffice it to say that the Secretary of State did approach me and offered to come to the House yesterday, which she did. [Interruption.] She approached me the day before yesterday about coming here yesterday. She has come here today and we have had a half-hour exchange, which seems to me to be very reasonable. We must now move on to the next business.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 23rd April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Colleagues need not worry. Their questions will be reached, but the Chair has to react to the development of events, to which I and some colleagues are privy and others are not. If you are not already confused, you will now be.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

16. What steps he is taking to provide military support to NATO allies in the Baltic states.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 29th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. More than 30 right hon. and hon. Members are still seeking to catch my eye, but I remind the House that there is a statement to follow and then two debates under the auspices of the Backbench Business Committee, of which the first is enormously heavily subscribed. There is a premium on brevity— to wit, single-sentence questions and replies that are comparably brief.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Has the Leader of the House seen early-day motions 1024 and 1036, calling for a commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the end of the first world war, and for giving shop workers and shoppers time to enjoy it by pushing back the Sunday opening hours on that day? EDM 1024 says:

[That this House believes that all people in the UK should be able to pay their respects on 11 November 2018 to those who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country during conflict; notes that this year marks the centenary of the end of the First World War; further notes that many people working in retail will not be able to commemorate this important anniversary due to the Sunday Trading Act (1980); and calls on the Government to encourage all shops covered by Sunday trading regulations to open from 12pm to 6pm on 11 November 2018 so that those working in retail are not required in work until memorial events have concluded.]

Will she look at those early-day motions and find time for such a debate?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 5th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

A short sentence from the voice of Delyn.

[David Hanson]

Will a Minister look at how universal credit is paid into credit unions? My local credit union is raising real concerns about the DWP’s efficiency and organisation in doing so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 23rd January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The right hon. Gentleman needs to focus his supplementary question exclusively on the Oakhill secure training centre in Milton Keynes.

[David Hanson]

Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Has the Minister taken any view on reducing the financial arrangements with G4S for running Oakhill or imposed any sanctions? What does it take to lose a contract?

Parole Board and Victim Support

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I gently point out, in respect of this extremely serious matter, that the statement has now been running for over half an hour, but we have had only 10 Back-Bench questions. To be candid, we need shorter questions—not people’s observations, comments, tributes and commendations—and then brief replies from the Secretary of State.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

There is a third aspect to this, which is post-release supervision. Given that Dame Glenys Stacey, the chief inspector of probation, says that there is a fractured system, will the Secretary of State, as one of his first tasks, consider strengthening that post-release supervision system?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

14. Can the Minister indicate to the House who is now responsible for expenditure in this area, who is going to sign off projects in this area—[Interruption.]—and whether parties other than Sinn Féin and the DUP will be consulted on expenditure proposals?

[Mr Speaker]

Extraordinary behaviour! The right hon. Gentleman is a distinguished former Northern Ireland Minister; he is entitled to be heard with courtesy, at the very least by Members on his own Benches.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We are now substantially better informed.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

The escape in February of a convicted murderer serving a 30-year sentence was linked to the dropping of a mobile phone into a prison in Liverpool using a drone so that he could liaise with villains outside to effect his escape. What steps is the Minister taking to enhance and expand the scheme that he has put in place to disrupt drones over prisons? In passing, has he found the prisoner yet?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 12th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Briefly, Mr David Hanson.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

15. Does not President Trump’s declaration on the Paris agreement blow a hole in the UK’s objectives on the climate change agreement as part of the millennium development goals?

Contaminated Blood

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Just before I call the first speaker from the Back Benches, I should say that at this stage I have not imposed any formal time limit, but a substantial number of people wish to contribute. Therefore, I know that the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) will exercise a magnificent self-denying ordinance in the length of his oration.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Do we really have to have it? I know what I am doing and am perfectly capable of handling the matter. If it is about the order of speeches—

[David Hanson]

It is the Minister—

[Mr Speaker]

No, no. I do not need to be advised by the right hon. Gentleman on the handling of the debate. Let me just say that in so far as this was not clear, it was as a result of a failure of communication between the two Front-Bench teams. These matters should be sorted out between the Government and the Opposition, not with people yapping at each other across the Floor of the House or very close to the Speaker’s Chair. The Speaker is happy to give effect to what the two sides of the House want, within reason, but that was not made easy on this occasion, and I am seeking to address the matter by consensus. I know that the right hon. Gentleman means well and his offer of assistance is greatly appreciated, but I do not need to take him up on it on this occasion.

European Council

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 26th June 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Darren Jones. [Interruption.] He was here a moment ago. I call Mr David Hanson.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister assure the House that she has made progress on securing our membership of the European arrest warrant, Eurojust and Europol as part of her discussions? In passing, will she also tell me that the UK Government do know when European citizens enter the United Kingdom?

Northern Ireland

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 26th June 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I hope that I pronounced correctly the surname of the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew C. Bowie). If I may be permitted, I hope even further that the hon. Gentleman is as devoted an admirer of the late and great David Bowie as I have been for the last 40 years.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the First Secretary of State confirm that, constitutionally, the extra money that he has announced today is for the Northern Ireland Assembly, not one particular party—great negotiators though I know its members to be? Will he confirm that the money has been agreed, and that its priorities have been agreed, by all parties that may form the Executive on Thursday?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 30th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am afraid Newcastle and Islwyn are too far away. Those Members will have to try to come in on another question; the M40 is not that big.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

12. What steps he is taking to improve transport links between north Wales and England.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 27th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Forgive me, I could not hear the Secretary of State and did not lip read effectively, but I now realise at what he was hinting. No doubt an answer will be furnished in due course.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

T7. Has any of the team seen today’s news about the one-hour-a-month contract offered by Santander bank? Will the Minister guarantee that under no circumstances will any job like that ever be advertised in a jobcentre in this country?

HMP Birmingham

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 19th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order—

[Mr Hanson]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to seek clarification from the Minister, if I may.

[Mr Speaker]

I hope this is not a continuation of the debate, but the right hon. Gentleman has an honest face and I will give him a chance.

[Mr Hanson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Lord Chancellor indicated that the Labour Government had privatised HMP Birmingham. Would she acknowledge, however, that the Ministry of Justice announced in March 2011 that G4S was to take over the prison? [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The right hon. Gentleman has made his own point in his own way. We must hear the response of the Secretary of State, if she wishes to offer one.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 8th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Switzerland also has its own unique selling point, called Roger Federer. Just thought I would mention that.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

The Japanese Government have thrown a huge cold bucket of water over Brexit, with their announcement that UK investment from Japan might be threatened. Is not access to the single market key to calming Japanese nerves?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 7th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Chancellor should remain seated. If that is the sum total of what he has to contribute on his feet in response to that question, frankly it was not worth the breath. It was utterly feeble and constitutionally improper. Learn it—it is very simple!

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on the economy of the UK leaving the EU.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 19th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We have to move on—far too slow.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

6. What assessment he has made of which groups within the UK population will benefit from planned changes to corporation tax.

Police Grant Report (England and Wales)

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hanson]

My hon. Friend makes her point very well. As she says, we need not just high-level policing but community intelligence and reassurance, and people who know their communities and who work at a local level.

The Minister made great play of efficiency. Nobody will deny that we can make the service more efficient. He is absolutely right about the sharing of buildings and about procurement. He knows about the air contract and the vehicle contract. Those are reforms that we should be making to save money. However, the bottom line is that those efficiencies are not compensating local police forces for the long-term reduction in central Government grant. My police force in north Wales has made efficiency savings of £19.65 million over the past four years, but that has not compensated it for the loss of grant.

The central point I want to put to the Minister, as I said in an intervention on him, is that the reductions in central Government grant are being compensated for by rises in the local precept. My local force area in north Wales has had a grant reduction of 18% over the four years. At the same time, there has been a 14.5% rise in the precept. My constituents are paying more in local taxes at a time when they are losing money in central Government grant.

The point, which my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) understands, is that the poorest areas do not have the council tax base that richer areas have to raise that amount of resource. A 1% or 2% rise in—dare I say it?—the constituency or council area where we are now, Westminster, will raise a hell of a lot more than a 1% or 2% rise in a community such as mine in north-east Wales. When the grant is cut to forces such as North Wales police, and we are expected to raise the local precept, it means that my constituents pay more locally for something that should be provided as part of a national service, whereby richer areas contribute to crime reduction in poorer areas or, indeed, in higher-crime areas. It is important that the Minister recognises that it is not simply a case of reducing the grant and hoping that we can raise that local precept, which he did not mention in any detail today, but of having a fair settlement that meets the needs of poorer communities or areas where crime is higher.

It is important to place it on the record that, under the previous Labour Government, there were 18,000 more police officers than we have now. Crime consistently fell under that Labour Government. If we could look again, in the next three to four years while the Minister holds office, at how we respond to not only the efficiency agenda but the central Government grant agenda, he could do a great deal to help reduce crime and build reassurance.

The Minister mentioned crime falling but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington said, violent crime has increased by 27% in the past year. On victim outcomes, for half the offences recorded in 2014-15, the case was closed without a single suspect being identified. Hate crime, disability crime, sexual offences and violence against women are starting to increase. There has been a 36% increase in sexual offences. For historical reasons, the reporting of sexual offences is also rising. I accept that car crime, shoplifting and other forms of crime are falling. Good—I am pleased about that, and we want crime to continue to be driven down. However, the Minister cannot avoid the fact that the funding settlement will mean at least a standstill for some authorities, and at worst, as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington mentioned, a massive cut, particularly for those authorities that have the highest crime, the greatest challenge and the lowest council tax base from which to draw the resources.

It is a little complacent of the Minister to say that all will be well because crime has fallen and forces are managing. My plea to him is to drive efficiency forward still further and perhaps even consider mergers, looking at some of the voluntary mergers that we have encouraged in the past, but not to pass on central Government grant cuts to areas that cannot meet the need, and need to raise money locally. The police service demands more. It is trying to do its best in a professional manner, but the settlement, given the new problems of increased terrorism, cybercrime, fraud and a range of other crimes, will not meet the challenge in the next four to five years. It will certainly not do so in the next year and I therefore support my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington in asking the Minister to review it. I will cast my vote this afternoon to try to make him review it and I hope that others will join me at one minute past four.

[Mr Speaker]

I will now announce the result of the ballot held today for the election of a new Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee. Four hundred and sixty votes were cast, with one spoilt ballot paper. The counting went to three stages, and 417 active votes were cast in that round, excluding those ballot papers whose preferences had been exhausted. The quota to be reached was therefore 209 votes. Mary Creagh was elected Chair with 258 votes. The other candidate in that round was Geraint Davies, who received 159 votes. Mary Creagh will take up her post immediately. I congratulate the hon. Lady on her election. The results of the count under the alternative vote system will be made available as soon as possible in the Vote Office and published on the internet for public viewing.

Notwithstanding some of the courtesies that have developed around these matters in recent times, given that we are in the middle of a debate and people are waiting to speak, I should be most grateful if hon. Members expressed their congratulations and commiserations outside the Chamber.

Again, I warmly congratulate the hon. Lady and I thank the other candidates for taking part in that important election.

Points of Order

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and his characteristic courtesy in notifying me in advance of its thrust. He asks how he can represent the interests of his constituents in relation to the education regulations before the House. This gives me the opportunity to explain the situation. Although I have certified the instrument as relating exclusively to England, the prayer to annul it requires a majority both of all Members and of Members representing English constituencies, so he is perfectly entitled to vote on it. The test that the Standing Order sets is that every provision of the instrument relates exclusively to England and is within devolved legislative competence. I am satisfied that the instrument meets that test. In forming my judgment, I am guided by advice from Speaker’s Counsel and from the Public Bill Office. Our exchange is now on the record and will, I hope, be useful to him in such exchanges or communications as take place.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I am not sure whether this will be further to that point of order, but I shall discover whether that is so, courtesy of the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson).

[Mr Hanson]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I fully accept your interpretation of this matter, Mr Speaker, which is right and proper. My further point of order is about the opportunities available to Members who believe that they have an interest in Wales to make representations to you prior to your certification. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) will point out, there are implications concerning the impact of budgets on communities such as ours. For example, I have only just learned in the last few moments, prior to entering the Chamber this morning, of your certification on this particular matter, and I am interested for future reference in what process is in place for us to make those representations. Self-evidently, we Members with Welsh seats believe that we have a constituency interest in this matter.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order, but if my memory serves me correctly, I announced my decision on this matter on 6 January. There has therefore been a period of no fewer than 12 days in which it was open to right hon. and hon. Members to make representations. Moreover, in relation not, I concede, to instruments, but to Bills, the House will be conscious or will start to become conscious that it is my frequent practice to make a provisional certification, which is subject to review during the passage of the piece of legislation, depending on the sequence of events. If, during such periods, Members feel that their point of view has not been heard and that if I heard it I might reach a different judgment, they should take the opportunity to make that known.

The right hon. Gentleman looked rather sceptical when I said that a judgment had been made about this matter several days ago, but I emphasise that there is no intention at all to deny Members the opportunity to make representations. Indeed, it is rather the contrary. I would also very politely point out to the right hon. Gentleman and the House that this procedure is one that the House has decided I should operate. I am seeking to operate it to the best of my ability and extremely fairly. It is not, however, the Speaker’s procedure; it is a judgment that the House has made, and I am making the best job of it that I can. [Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman is intimating from a sedentary position that his facial expressions were those not of scepticism, but of gratitude. I am grateful to him for that helpful clarification—as an expectant nation will also be, I am sure.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 14th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Grahame Morris is not here. I call Mr David Hanson.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

10. What recent steps the Crown Prosecution Service has taken to improve the conviction rate for rape and domestic violence.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 17th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Hedgehogs of the world, unite and fight!

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I am afraid I cannot follow that, Mr Speaker.

Given that £20 million has been spent on the badger cull so far, and that hundreds, possibly thousands, of badgers have been killed, will the Secretary of State tell the House how many of those that have been killed had been tested for bovine TB?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 8th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I say in a very kindly way to the Minister, whom I much esteem, that sometimes Ministers, who of course are ultimately responsible, must trim the officialese that is penned for them by others. The hon. Lady is her own best judge in these important matters, and I know she is perfectly capable of doing that herself.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

T10. The prison in Wrexham is extremely welcome, but has the Minister had a chance to look at the concerns raised by the First Minister about the healthcare costs for prisoners, many of whom are from England, falling entirely on the Assembly?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr John Whittingdale)]

Since the last Culture, Media and Sport Question Time, the England team has won the Ashes; the English, Welsh and Northern Ireland football teams have all qualified for the European championships; Team GB has won four gold medals at the world athletics championships; and, although the home nations are no longer in the hunt for the rugby world cup, the tournament has enjoyed record-breaking attendances and been an organisational triumph.

[Mr Speaker]

And Britain is in the Davis cup final, to boot.

[Mr Hanson]

I am sure that all that is very fine, but people need tickets to see those events. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 was supposed to enforce measures on ticket resales, but yesterday’s Which? report has shown that there are major holes in that. How does the Secretary of State intend to enforce the Act, and what steps will he take to address the concerns expressed by Which?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 21st October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Put a note in the Library and everybody will be satisfied.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

3. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on releasing all Government papers relating to the Shrewsbury 24 campaign.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 10th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Fiona Bruce. Not here.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

10. What consultation she undertook before her recent announcement on extending the badger cull.

Points of Order

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 14th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is no. It is up to Members to be in their place and to take their opportunity. I believe there will be a business question on Thursday, and I merely encourage other right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the House, whatever subject is of interest to them, to display the same perspicacity as the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you take this opportunity to remind the House that statements should be made to the House? I first heard this news on the BBC website. It is not appropriate that Members hear news affecting hundreds of their constituents in such a way. Constituents, whether for or against hunting with hounds, have taken a great deal of time to email their Members of Parliament, and to hear about it from BBC News was not appropriate.

[Mr Speaker]

It is certainly right that statements should be made first to the House. However illustrious the British Broadcasting Corporation might be, it does not deserve to hear of such matters before elected Members of Parliament. Statements should certainly be made first to the House.

Bill Presented

National Insurance Contributions (Rate Ceilings) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, supported by the Prime Minister, Mr Secretary Duncan Smith, Secretary Sajid Javid, Greg Hands, Mr David Gauke, Damian Hinds and Harriett Baldwin, presented a Bill to set a ceiling on the main and additional primary percentages, the secondary percentage and the upper earnings limit in relation to Class 1 national insurance contributions.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 54) with explanatory notes (Bill 54-EN).

Modern Slavery Bill

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hanson]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I should congratulate the right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) on her elevation to the Privy Council, despite her use of the word “shocking” three times in succession just now. She has been so elevated and is now a celebrated denizen of the House.

[Mr Hanson]

I wish to speak in support of Lords amendment 72 and try once again, alongside my right hon. and hon. Friends, to convince the Government that it would be in the best interests of overseas domestic workers. Today we revisit the regulations on overseas domestic workers that the Government changed in April 2012. Although the intention behind that change can be debated, I think that even the Minister would accept that the consequences have been dire. Domestic workers who come here from overseas are now tied to an employer, which in practice means that those who suffer abuse will immediately lose their right to reside in the UK if they escape the situation and seek help away from their employer. I believe that that disincentivises them from seeking help from the authorities in the first place because they fear being deported, and that allows abuse to become widespread and perpetrators to carry on uncontested.

The charity Kalayaan has done a great deal of detailed work to support overseas domestic workers, and the Minister knows of the statistics it has collated. It found that, of the workers who contacted it, 62% of the domestic workers who came on a tied visa were paid no salary at all, compared with 14% on the original visa, 96% were not allowed out of the house unsupervised and 74% faced psychological abuse. Those statistics are a small snapshot of what is a deeply difficult experience for too many overseas domestic workers in the United Kingdom.

If it was only Kalayaan saying that, it would be an indication from a respected charity, but the Minister knows—we have had this debate before—that a number of organisations have been considering this for some time. The Joint Committee on Human Rights has echoed the call for the review that Lords amendment 72 would effectively give. It states:

“We regard the removal of the right of an overseas domestic worker to change employer as a backward step in the protection of migrant domestic workers”.

The Minister and the Home Secretary produced the draft Bill and, helpfully, established the Joint Committee on the Draft Modern Slavery Bill, chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead, to ensure that they looked at those issues and got the Bill right. The Committee included a number of notable peers from across the House of Lords: Baroness Butler-Sloss, the Bishop of Derby, Baroness Doocey, Baroness Hanham, Baroness Kennedy of Cradley, Lord McColl of Dulwich and Lord Warner. The Members from this House were the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty), my right hon. Friend the Member for Slough and the right hon. Members for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Sir John Randall), for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) and for Hazel Grove (Sir Andrew Stunell). That cross-section of individuals looked at the matter in detail and concluded that the overseas domestic workers visa has

“unintentionally strengthened the hand of the slave master against the victim of slavery. The moral case for revisiting this issue is urgent and overwhelming”.

It called on the Government to take immediate action.

The Opposition tried to provide that immediate action in response to the Government’s lack of response to that particular aspect of the Joint Committee’s report. We tabled an amendment in Committee and had a good discussion about it. Mr Speaker, you know how difficult it is for an Opposition to get even close to winning votes upstairs in Committee. On the day in question, the result of the vote was nine-all, so it was decided by the Chair, the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard), who voted for the status quo, in accordance with precedent. The Government hand-picked a Committee but still ended up with a nine-all draw on an issue recommended on a cross-party basis by Members of both Houses. I think that shows the strength and integrity of the issue before us today.

Counter-Terrorism and Security Bill

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 6th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Conditions A to E—

‘(1) Condition A is that the Secretary of State reasonably suspects that the individual is, or has been, involved in terrorism-related activity outside the United Kingdom.

(2) Condition B is that the Secretary of State reasonably considers that it is necessary, for purposes connected with protecting members of the public in the United Kingdom from a risk of terrorism, for a temporary exclusion order to be imposed on the individual.

(3) Condition C is that the Secretary of State reasonably considers that the individual is outside the United Kingdom.

(4) Condition D is that the individual has the right of abode in the United Kingdom.

(5) Condition E is that—

(a) the court gives the Secretary of State permission under section 3, or

(b) the Secretary of State reasonably considers that the urgency of the case requires a temporary exclusion order to be imposed without obtaining such permission.

(6) During the period that a temporary exclusion order is in force, the Secretary of State must keep under review whether condition B is met.”

New clause 3—Prior permission of the court—

‘(1) This section applies if the Secretary of State—

(a) makes the relevant decisions in relation to an individual, and

(b) makes an application to the court for permission to impose measures on the individual.

(2) The application must set out a draft of the proposed TEO notice.

(3) The function of the court on the application is—

(a) to determine whether the relevant decisions of the Secretary of State are obviously flawed, and

(b) to determine whether to give permission to impose measures on the individual and (where applicable) whether to exercise the power of direction under subsection (9).

(4) The court may consider the application—

(a) in the absence of the individual;

(b) without the individual having been notified of the application; and

(c) without the individual having been given an opportunity (if the individual was aware of the application) of making any representations to the court.

(5) But that does not limit the matters about which rules of court may be made.

(6) In determining the application, the court must apply the principles applicable on an application for judicial review.

(7) In a case where the court determines that a decision of the Secretary of State that condition A, condition B, or condition C is met is obviously flawed, the court may not give permission under this section.

(8) In any other case, the court may give permission under this section.

(9) If the court determines that the Secretary of State‘s decision that condition D is met is obviously flawed, the court may (in addition to giving permission under subsection (8) give directions to the Secretary of State in relation to the measures to be imposed on the individual.

(10) 1n this section “relevant decisions” means the decisions that the following conditions are met—

(a) condition A;

(b) condition B;

(c) condition C; and

(d) condition D.”

New schedule 1—Proceedings relating to Temporary Exclusion Orders—

Introductory

1 In this Schedule—

“appeal proceedings” means proceedings in the Court of Appeal or the Inner House of the Court of Session on an appeal relating to temporary exclusion order proceedings;

“the relevant court” means—

(a) in relation to TEO proceedings, the court;

(b) in relation to appeal proceedings, the Court of Appeal or the Inner House of the Court of Session;

“rules of court” means rules for regulating the practice and procedure to be followed in the court, the Court of Appeal or the Inner House of the Court of Session.

Rules of court: general provision

2 (1) A person making rules of court relating to TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings must have regard to the need to secure the following—

(a) that the decisions that are the subject of the proceedings are properly reviewed, and

(b) that disclosures of information are not made where they would be contrary to the public interest.

(2) Rules of court relating to TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings may make provision—

(a) about the mode of proof and about evidence in the proceedings;

(b) enabling or requiring the proceedings to be determined without a hearing;

(c) about legal representation in the proceedings;

(d) enabling the proceedings to take place without full particulars of the reasons for the decisions to which the proceedings relate being given to a party to the proceedings (or to any legal representative of that party);

(e) enabling the relevant court to conduct proceedings in the absence of any person, including a party to the proceedings (or any legal representative of that party);

(f) about the functions of a person appointed as a special advocate (see paragraph 10);

(g) enabling the court to give a party to the proceedings a summary of evidence taken in the party‘s absence.

(3) In this paragraph—

(a) references to a party to the proceedings do not include the Secretary of State;

(b) references to a party‘s legal representative do not include a person appointed as a special advocate.

(4) Nothing in this paragraph is to be read as restricting the power to make rules of court or the matters to be taken into account when doing so.

Rules of court: disclosure

3 (1) Rules of court relating to TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings must secure that the Secretary of State is required to disclose—

(a) material on which the Secretary of State relies,

(b) material which adversely affects the Secretary of State‘s case, and

(c) material which supports the case of another party to the proceedings.

(2) This paragraph is subject to paragraph 4.

4 (1) Rules of court relating to TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings must secure—

(a) that the Secretary of State has the opportunity to make an application to the relevant court for permission not to disclose material otherwise than to the relevant court and any person appointed as a special advocate;

(b) that such an application is always considered in the absence of every party to the proceedings (and every party’s legal representative);

(c) that the relevant court is required to give permission for material not to be disclosed if it considers that the disclosure of the material would be contrary to the public interest;

(d) that, if permission is given by the relevant court not to disclose material, it must consider requiring the Secretary of State to provide a summary of the material to every party to the proceedings (and every party’s legal representative);

(e) that the relevant court is required to ensure that such a summary does not contain material the disclosure of which would be contrary to the public interest.

(2) Rules of court relating to TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings must secure that provision to the effect mentioned in sub-paragraph (3) applies in cases where the Secretary of State—

(a) does not receive the permission of the relevant court to withhold material, but elects not to disclose it, or

(b) is required to provide a party to the proceedings with a summary of material that is withheld, but elects not to provide the summary.

(3) The relevant court must be authorised—

(a) if it considers that the material or anything that is required to be summarised might adversely affect the Secretary of State’s case or support the case of a party to the proceedings, to direct that the Secretary of State—

(i) is not to rely on such points in the Secretary of State’s case, or

(ii) is to make such concessions or take such other steps as the court may specify, or

(b) in any other case, to ensure that the Secretary of State does not rely on the material or (as the case may be) on that which is required to be summarised.

(4) In this paragraph—

(a) references to a party to the proceedings do not include the Secretary of State;

(b) references to a party’s legal representative do not include a person appointed as a special advocate.

Article 6 rights

5 (1) Nothing in paragraphs 2 to 4, or in rules of court made under any of those paragraphs, is to be read as requiring the relevant court to act in a manner inconsistent with Article 6 of the Human Rights Convention.

(2) The “Human Rights Convention” means the Convention within the meaning of the Human Rights Act 1998 (see section 21(1) of that Act).

6 (1) Rules of court relating to TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings may make provision for—

(a) the making by the Secretary of State or the relevant individual of an application to the court for an order requiring anonymity for that individual, and

(b) the making by the court, on such an application, of an order requiring such anonymity;

and the provision made by the rules may allow the application and the order to be made irrespective of whether any other TEO proceedings have been begun in the court.

(2) Rules of court may provide for the Court of Appeal or the Inner House of the Court of Session to make an order in connection with any appeal proceedings requiring anonymity for the relevant individual.

(3) In sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) the references, in relation to a court, to an order requiring anonymity for the relevant individual are references to an order by that court which imposes such prohibition or restriction as it thinks fit on the disclosure—

(a) by such persons as the court specifies or describes, or

(b) by persons generally,

of the identity of the relevant individual or of any information that would tend to identify the relevant individual.

(4) In this paragraph “relevant individual” means an individual on whom the Secretary of State is proposing to impose, or has imposed, measures.

Initial exercise of rule-making powers by Lord Chancellor

7 (1) The first time after the passing of this Act that rules of court are made in exercise of the powers conferred by this Schedule in relation to proceedings in England and Wales or in Northern Ireland, the rules may be made by the Lord Chancellor instead of by the person who would otherwise make them.

(2) Before making rules of court under sub-paragraph (1), the Lord Chancellor must consult—

(a) in relation to rules applicable to proceedings in England and Wales, the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales;

(b) in relation to rules applicable to proceedings in Northern Ireland, the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland.

(3) But the Lord Chancellor is not required to undertake any other consultation before making the rules.

(4) A requirement to consult under sub-paragraph (2) may be satisfied by consultation that took place wholly or partly before the passing of this Act.

(5) Rules of court made by the Lord Chancellor under sub-paragraph (1)—

(a) must be laid before Parliament, and

(b) if not approved by a resolution of each House before the end of 40 days beginning with the day on which they were made, cease to have effect at the end of that period.

(6) In determining that period of 40 days no account is to be taken of any time during which Parliament is dissolved or prorogued or during which both Houses are adjourned for more than 4 days.

(7) 1f rules cease to have effect in accordance with sub-paragraph (5)—

(a) that does not affect anything done in previous reliance on the rules, and

(b) sub-paragraph (1) applies again as if the rules had not been made.

(8) The following provisions do not apply to rules of court made by the Lord Chancellor under this paragraph—

(a) section 3(6) of the Civil Procedure Act 1997 (Parliamentary procedure for civil procedure rules);

(b) section 56(1), (2) and (4) of the Judicature (Northern Ireland) Act 1978 (statutory rules procedure).

(9) Until the coming into force of section 85 of the Courts Act 2003, the reference in sub-paragraph (8)(a) to section 3(6) of the Civil Procedure Act 1997 is to be read as a reference to section 3(2) of that Act.

Use of advisers

8 (1) In any TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings the relevant court may if it thinks fit—

(a) call in aid one or more advisers appointed for the purposes of this paragraph by the Lord Chancellor, and

(b) hear and dispose of the proceedings with the assistance of the adviser or advisers.

(2) The Lord Chancellor may appoint advisers for the purposes of this paragraph only with the approval of—

(a) the Lord President of the Court of Session, in relation to an adviser who may be called in aid wholly or mainly in Scotland;

(b) the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland, in relation to an adviser who may be called in aid wholly or mainly in Northern Ireland;

(c) the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, in any other case.

(3) Rules of court may regulate the use of advisers in proceedings who are called in aid under sub-paragraph (1).

(4) The Lord Chancellor may pay such remuneration, expenses and allowances to advisers appointed for the purposes of this paragraph as the Lord Chancellor may determine.

9 (1) The Lord President of the Court of Session may nominate a judge of the Court of Session who is a member of the First or Second Division of the Inner House of that Court to exercise the function under paragraph 8(2)(a).

(2) The Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland may nominate any of the following to exercise the function under paragraph 8(2)(b)—

(a) the holder of one of the offices listed in Schedule 1 to the Justice (Northern Ireland) Act 2002;

(b) a Lord Justice of Appeal (as defined in section 88 of that Act).

(3) The Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales may nominate a judicial office holder (as defined in section 109(4) of the Constitutional Reform Act 2005) to exercise the function under paragraph 8(2)(c).

Appointment of special advocate

10 (1) The appropriate law officer may appoint a person to represent the interests of a party in any TEO proceedings or appeal proceedings from which the party (and any legal representative of the party) is excluded.

(2) A person appointed under sub-paragraph (1) is referred to in this Schedule as appointed as “special advocate”.

(3) The “appropriate law officer” is—

(a) in relation to proceedings in England and Wales, the Attorney General;

(b) in relation to proceedings in Scotland, the Advocate General for Scotland;

(c) in relation to proceedings in Northern Ireland, the Advocate General for Northern Ireland.

(4) A person appointed as a special advocate is not responsible to the party to the proceedings whose interests the person is appointed to represent.

(5) A person may be appointed as a special advocate only if—

(a) in the case of an appointment by the Attorney General, the person has a general qualification for the purposes of section 71 of the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990;

(b) in the case of an appointment by the Advocate General for Scotland, the person is an advocate or a solicitor who has rights of audience in the Court of Session or the High Court of Justiciary by virtue of section 25A of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980;

(c) in the case of an appointment by the Advocate General for Northern Ireland, the person is a member of the Bar of Northern Ireland.”

Amendment 18, in clause 2, page 2, line 5, leave out subsection (2) and insert—

‘(2) The court may impose a temporary exclusion order on an individual following an application from the Secretary of State if the court is satisfied that conditions A to D are met.”

Amendment 21, page 2, line 6, after “D”, insert “or condition E”

Amendment 22, page 2, line 17, at end insert—

‘(6A) Condition E is that the Secretary of State has provided evidence, whether or not conditions A to D are met, to substantiate that the individual has, inconsistently with his duty of loyalty to the United Kingdom, conducted himself in a manner seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom and that he has taken an oath, or made a formal declaration of allegiance to another state or territory seized, governed or administered de facto by an organisation demanding allegiance to that organisation, having given definite evidence of his determination to repudiate his allegiance to the United Kingdom.”

Amendment 19, page 2, line 18, leave out “Secretary of State” and insert “court”

Amendment 23, in clause 3, page 2, line 29, after “years”, insert “or, where section 2(6A) applies, for a period of not less than two years specified by the Secretary of State.”

Amendment 20, in clause 11, page 7, line 21, at end insert—

““the court”

(a) in relation to proceedings relating to a temporary exclusion order in the case of which the excluded individual is a person whose principal place of residence immediately prior to leaving the United Kingdom was in Scotland, means the Outer House of the Court of Session;

(b) in relation to proceedings relating to a temporary exclusion order in the case of which the excluded individual is a person whose principal place of residence immediately prior to leaving the United Kingdom was in Northern Ireland, means the High Court in Northern Ireland; and

(c) in any other case, means the High Court in England and Wales;”

Business of the House (Today)

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 10th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he has said. Let me simply say, for the convenience and awareness of the House, that the Home Secretary will wind up the debate on the business motion in order to clarify the Government’s position. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman regards that as helpful. In the spirit of fairness and propriety, the Opposition Front Bench will also have a wind-up speaker, who I believe will be the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson).

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

It looks like it, Mr Speaker.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Stephen Phillips. Not here.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that constituents of mine who use the health service in England, work in the public sector in England and use public transport in England, but who are represented by me as a Welsh Member of Parliament, want a say on matters relating to England? Does she accept that there are problems, but not always solutions?

Crime and Courts Bill [Lords] (Programme No. 2)

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 13th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment (a), from “Second day”, leave out from beginning to paragraph 5 and insert—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I understand that new information has just been disclosed to the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), but may I ask for the purposes of clarification whether he is moving the amendment or whether he is just speaking about the motion? I think he had fully intended not just to move his amendment but to press it to a vote, since when the Minister of State has offered new information. If the right hon. Gentleman does not wish to speak in support of his amendment, so be it. He can speak about the motion, but he needs to make that clear.

[Mr Hanson]

I am supporting the amendment as well as speaking about the motion, Mr Speaker. I wish to get some assurances from the Minister before the conclusion of the debate. We will then reflect on the Minister’s response and decide whether to press the amendment to a vote.

[Mr Speaker]

I think that it is clear that the right hon. Gentleman is moving the amendment and will decide on whether to push it to a vote depending on any assurances he does or does not receive.

[Mr Hanson]

If I may, Mr Speaker, I want to seek a few assurances from the Minister before I resume my seat.

I am particularly keen for the Minister to consider what assurances he can give the House that there will be a guaranteed debate on the Leveson amendments and new clauses and that there will be an opportunity for the House to vote on them.

I also seek clarification—perhaps the Leader of the House could assist on this point—about whether the second day of consideration will be confirmed for Monday 18 March—[Interruption.] I would be grateful if the Minister of State could listen to what I am saying, because these are important matters that affect whether we will support the motion. I have asked the Minister, as the Leader of the House is in the Chamber, whether he can confirm that the second day of our consideration will be next Monday, as announced last Thursday by the Leader of the House. We seek assurances that there will be an opportunity to debate and vote on Leveson or press regulation-related clauses tabled by the Government or by the Opposition. I want to hear from the Minister—the Leader of the House can help him—whether the debate will happen on 18 March.

The Minister said that he intends to table a supplementary programme motion and he has a duty to tell the House when he intends to do that. Between you and me, Mr Speaker—dare I say it—our amendment would deliver what the Government want on Monday. If it were pressed to a vote, it might do what the Government seek to do, but I am willing, as I am that sort of a guy, to give the Minister the chance to reflect. If he can assure me that the supplementary programme motion will be tabled within living experience, rather than at some future date of which we are as yet unsure, that would reassure me and my right hon. Friends that the Government’s intentions should be supported by the official Opposition.

Policing

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hanson]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Before calling the right hon. Gentleman, I say to the hon. Lady that, first, interventions must be brief and, secondly, I am keen that everyone should get in and so the time limit will have to be reduced later on, fairly soon afterwards, so we really need economy.

[Mr Hanson]

I take it from that that the hon. Lady is in favour of 800 police officers being lost from the west midlands police force. I suggest that she go back to Stourbridge and say, “I am very happy to support 800 fewer officers in the west midlands.” Crime fell by 43% during the course of the Labour Government because we had record numbers of police officers catching record numbers of criminals, giving them sentences, ensuring that they served them, and reducing reoffending. She will not find much joy in Stourbridge about what has happened in terms of those policies.

Labour Members believe that the policing settlements for this year, last year and the year before have caused great damage to the communities that we represent, and that next year’s settlement, through the comprehensive spending review, is likely to be much worse. [Interruption.] Let me say to the Minister of State, the hon. Member for Taunton Deane, who is heckling from a sedentary position, that, yes, crime has gone down, and we welcome that. Crime went down by 43% during the time of the Labour Government, and today’s crime figures are reaching the stage whereby the Labour Government’s policies are still having an impact. If he cuts 16,000 police officers, reduces DNA testing, reduces CCTV and scraps ASBOs, he will find crime levelling and possibly increasing in future. He will know about that by the time of the next election and will be judged on it in due course.

Police and Crime Commissioners

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend might also wish to ask the Government whether it is indeed the Cabinet Office that—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I say gently to the right hon. Gentleman that it is not customary or desirable for Members to intervene from the Front Bench in these Adjournment debates? I gave an indication in response to a point of order yesterday of the distinction between an intervention and a speech in other people’s Adjournment debates, but that ruling referred to Back Benchers. This is a very unusual practice, and the right hon. Gentleman is not normally given to unusual practices, as far as I am aware.

Annual Statements of Healthcare Costs

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 22nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Would it be possible for you to arrange the urgent deposition of the report by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary on police numbers in the Library? In answer to Question Q1 today, asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), the Prime Minister said that there were more police officers on the beat in the past year, when in fact there are 4,000 fewer. I would not wish the House to be inadvertently misled by the Prime Minister’s comments today.

[Mr Speaker]

What I would say to the right hon. Gentleman is that if the report in question is not available in the Library, I am confident that the Library will make good and ensure that it is. I am sure that is really all he was seeking from me.

Protection of Freedoms Bill

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 11th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 110, page 20, line 7, clause 29, leave out

‘a code of practice containing’.

Amendment 104, page 20, line 9, leave out

‘Such a code must contain guidance’

and insert

‘The guidance may contain information’.

Amendment 105, page 20, line 12, at end add—

‘(c) the importance of using CCTV to prevent and detect crime,

(d) ways to take into account the views of the public in relation to CCTV provision, including the use of public petitions.’.

Amendment 106, page 20, leave out lines 13 to 28.

Amendment 95, page 20, line 13, leave out from ‘code’ to end of line 24 and insert

‘must have, in particular—

(a) regard to the purpose of prevention and detection of crime,

(b) consideration for petitions from the public as consultation on CCTV provision, with any such petition to be brought to the attention of the Commissioner,

(c) not inhibiting CCTV provision for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime, and

(d) consideration as to whether the use of CCTV will prevent and detect crime.’.

Amendment 107, page 20, line 29, leave out ‘such a code’ and insert ‘guidance’.

Government amendment 20.

Amendment 99, page 21, line 14, leave out clause 30.

Amendment 100, page 21, line 35, leave out clause 31.

Amendment 101, page 22, line 22, leave out clause 32.

Amendment 102, page 22, line 30, leave out clause 33.

Amendment 103, page 24, line 5, clause 34, leave out ‘code’ and insert ‘guidance’.

Amendment 96, page 24, line 6, leave out ‘code’ and insert ‘guidance’.

Amendment 97, page 24, line 6, leave out from ‘code’ to end of line 8.

Amendment 98, page 24, line 30, clause 35, leave out ‘code’ and insert ‘guidance’.

Government amendments 31 and 67.

Electricity Transmission (Protection of Landscape)

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We are grateful to the Deputy Leader of the House for doing so. The point is on the record and is very clear.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Very briefly. We are not having a general debate about taxation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hanson]

I am grateful, Mr Speaker. In defence of my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), she was referring to the fact that there was a debate on this very issue last night in the Commons and the Exchequer Secretary made no reference to the statement being due the following day.

[Mr Speaker]

That is noted, but procedural propriety has been observed. That is all that the Chair needs to observe.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 30th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We come now to a statement by the Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Points of order come after statements.

I really must encourage better timekeeping by those on the Treasury Bench. Ministers should be here in time to make their statements; this is a serious matter, not a laughing matter.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 24th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Minister for that, but answers need to be shorter.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

The decision on the feed-in tariff regime has caused great consternation in north Wales—so much so that the managing director of Kingspan, a company in my constituency, has written to me to say:

“DECC has potentially destroyed a renewables sector that is only some 11 months old and taken with it the jobs and growth opportunity that it would have provided for the UK economy in general and North Wales in particular.”

In the light of that comment from the managing director of a manufacturing company, will the Minister meet me, my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) and others to discuss this bad decision?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 8th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Two things: first, I want to hear both questions and answers; secondly, can I—[Interruption.] Order. Can I just ask Members on both sides of the House to give some thought to how our proceedings are regarded by the people whose support we were busily seeking less than a year ago?

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the Chief Secretary first confirm that public sector debt was 42.5% in 1997 and 36.5% in 2008, the second-lowest debt of any G7 country? Will he secondly accept that investment during the last two years of the Labour Government was designed to keep people in their jobs and homes, expenditure that he supported at the time? Given the disastrous economic figures and the CBI’s comments before Christmas, will he just admit that what he is missing is a growth strategy, not the cuts that he opposed during the election?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

May I appeal to the Secretary of State to face the House so that we can all hear her?

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State make contact with Kerry Foods of Ireland, which proposes to transfer business out of north-east Wales from Headland Foods Ltd in Flint, in my constituency, to Grimsby? Will she examine whether steps can be taken, even at this late stage, to retain those jobs in Wales? If they cannot be retained, will she ensure that she stands up for the work force and their redundancy terms and seeks alternative inward investment to help to replace those jobs?

National Insurance Contributions Bill

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Thursday 13th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 5, page 2, line 20, clause 4, leave out ‘2013’ and insert ‘2012’.

Amendment 6, line 20, at end insert

‘The Treasury will carry out a review of the Regional Secondary Contributions Holiday before 5 December 2011 and may extend the relevant period until 5 September 2013.’.

[Mr Hanson]

The clue to the proposed changes before us is in the words that the Clerk read out, “not amended in the Public Bill Committee”. The proposals were reflected on and discussed in Committee, and I hope that the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury has had time, with a good break behind him over Christmas, to reflect on the common sense in them.

I would find it amazing if the Minister were not able to accept new clause 1, because it simply asks for information that, if he looks carefully, he knows I could table questions—with probably more work for him and his officials—to secure in due course. It is important that he assesses the scheme to ensure that we have a national insurance holiday, which, under the current Bill, includes the whole United Kingdom minus three regions—London, the east and the south-east.

The Opposition support, welcome and recognise the Government’s objectives in seeking to use the mechanism of forgoing national insurance income to encourage businesses, but it is important that the Government, the Opposition and, indeed, the House, who endorse that proposal, know its impact over the relevant period.

New clause 1 asks the House to ensure that, following Royal Assent, there is an annual report to Parliament on the outcomes of the scheme, meaning that between now and 2013 we would potentially have three annual reports with the information outlined in the new clause. Essentially, that would include the total sum of national insurance expenditure saved by businesses under the scheme by constituency, but, if the Minister wanted to reflect on the proposal and have it brought back in another place, I would be happy for the information to be listed by sub-region or by region. The information would also include the number of businesses availing themselves of the secondary contributions holidays, the number of employees in each business and the total expenditure saved by businesses under the scheme.

I tabled new clause 1 for several reasons. It is important that we know the facts. The Minister said in Committee that he expects about 400,000 businesses to take part in the scheme during its operation. That figure is a valuable indication and a good benchmark by which we can judge the success of the scheme. When the Committee sat before Christmas, we were already effectively five to six months into the operation of the scheme and about 1,100 businesses had applied for it. An annual review to Parliament would not only have provided an indication of whether Parliament should pass the Bill but would have ensured that we know exactly the take-up of the scheme. New clause 1 refers to the fact that we would also know the take-up by constituency and by businesses.

That is important for two reasons. We need to know the trajectory of the take-up. Is the figure of 1,100 to date what was expected? What will the trajectory be for those businesses in 2011 and 2012? If we have our first annual report in, let us say, December 2011—when the scheme will have been operating for 18 months—what will the take-up of the scheme be? Is the trajectory for the remaining two years likely to mean we get to the 400,000 figure that the Minister has mentioned? An annual report would provide transparency and openness, to which the Government are committed, on those issues and those take-ups. There would be nothing in the report that I could not ask the Minister in a parliamentary question in December this year, next year or the year after. It would simply be good business for the Government to supply that information as a whole.

It is important to consider the number of businesses in each constituency, and we will return to the exclusion of London, the south-east and the east region when we discuss other amendments. Given the deprivation in many of the London constituencies represented by my hon. Friends in the Chamber this afternoon, we feel particularly strongly about that matter. The Bill will have a significant impact on 400,000 businesses across the remainder of the United Kingdom, but will it and the proposed holiday impact on areas that have the highest public sector employment, which is the Minister’s primary objective, and areas of high deprivation and unemployment?

We discussed unemployment and deprivation in areas of the United Kingdom a number of times in Committee. For the purposes of explanation, I shall randomly look at constituencies that currently benefit from the national holiday under the scheme and will benefit if the scheme goes ahead. The annual report is important because unemployment in the Tatton constituency of the Chancellor of the Exchequer is about 2.1%, in the Richmond constituency of the Foreign Secretary it is about 1.8% and in the Rushcliffe constituency of the Justice Secretary it is about 2%.

It is important that we look at where the scheme ultimately is taken up and who will benefit. If businesses are opening in Tatton, Rushcliffe, Richmond and, indeed, other constituencies with low unemployment, that is all well and good, but it will not tackle deprivation in Manchester Central, Liverpool, Riverside or Newcastle upon Tyne East, which ultimately also might benefit from the scheme. For transparency, it is important that the Minister produces an annual report showing not only how many people and businesses have taken up the scheme, but in which constituencies it was taken up outside London, the south-east and the east region.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 21st December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Chancellor does not need to bear that in mind. He has explained his position very clearly, and we are grateful to him. I now call Tobias Ellwood, as his question is also in this group. He is not here. Oh, dear. I call Mr David Hanson.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the Chancellor confirm that in adopting his policy on tuition fees he has raised the Government borrowing requirement to £10.7 billion by 2015—a rise of £5.6 billion—in addition to cutting at least £800 million from the university budget and tripling fees, which will deter poorer students? Will he now for once confirm to the House that his choice on tuition fees is about ideology, not deficit reduction?

Finance (No.2) Bill

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 8th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss

New schedule 2—Video Game Production—

1 After section 1216 of CTA 2009, insert—

Part 15A

Video Game Production

Chapter 1

Introduction

Introductory

1216A Overview of Part

‘(1) This Part is about video game production.

(2) Sections 1216B to 1216G contain definitions and other provisions about interpretation that apply for the purposes of this Part. See, in particular, section 1216C which explains how a company comes to be treated as the video game production company in relation to a video game.

(3) Chapter 2 is about the taxation of the activities of a video game production company and includes—

(a) provision for the company’s activities in relation to its video game to be treated as a separate trade, and

(b) provision about the calculation of the profits and losses of that trade.

(4) Chapter 3 is about relief (called “video game tax relief”) which can be given to a video game production company by way of additional deductions to be made in calculating the profits or losses of the company’s separate trade.

(5) Chapter 4 is about the relief which can be given for losses made by a video game production company in its separate trade including provision for certain such losses to be transferred to other separate trades.

(6) Chapter 5 provides—

(a) for relief under Chapters 3 and 4 to be given on a provisional basis, and

(b) for such relief to be withdrawn if it turns out that conditions that must be met for such relief to be given are not actually met.

Interpretation

1216B “Video Game” etc

‘(1) This section applies for the purposes of this Part.

(2) “Video Game” includes a game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a display screen.

(3) A video game is completed when it is first in a form in which it can reasonably be regarded as ready for copies of it to be distributed to the general public.

1216C “Video game production company”

‘(1) For the purposes of this Part “video game production company” is to be read in accordance with this section.

(2) There cannot be more than one video game production company in relation to a video game.

(3) A company that (otherwise than in partnership)—

(a) is responsible—

(i) for design, programming and production of the video game, and

(ii) for delivery of the completed video game,

(b) is actively engaged in production planning and decision-making during design and programming, and

(c) directly negotiates, contracts and pays for rights, goods and services in relation to the video game,

is the video game production company in relation to the video game.

(4) If there is more than one company meeting the description in subsection (3), the company that is most directly engaged in the activities referred to in that subsection is the video game production company in relation to the video game.

(5) If there is no company meeting the description in subsection (3), there is no video game production company in relation to the video game.

(6) A company may elect to be regarded as a company which does not meet the description in subsection (3).

(7) The election—

(a) must be made by the company by being included in its company tax return for an accounting period (and may be included in the return originally made or by amendment), and

(b) may be withdrawn by the company only by amending its company tax return for that accounting period.

(8) The election has effect in relation to video games which commence design in that or any subsequent accounting period.

1216D “Video game-making activities” etc

‘(1) In this Part “video game-making activities”, in relation to a video game, means the activities involved in design, programming and production of the video game.

(2) The Treasury may make regulations to—

(a) amend subsection (1),

(b) provide that specified activities are or are not to be regarded as video game-making activities or as video game-making activities of a particular description, and

(c) provide that, in relation to a specified description of video game, references to video game-making activities of a particular description are to be read as references to such activities as may be specified.

“Specified” means specified in the regulations.

1216E “Production expenditure”, “core expenditure” and “limited-budget video game”

‘(1) In this Part, in relation to a video game— “production expenditure” means expenditure on video game-making activities in connection with the video game, and “core expenditure” means the total costs that relate specifically to the producing and developing of the video game up to the point of commercial release.

(2) For the purposes of this Part a “limited-budget video game” is a video game whose core expenditure is £3 million or less.

(3) In determining if a video game is a limited-budget video game, any core expenditure that—

(a) is incurred by a person under or as a result of a transaction entered into directly or indirectly between that person and a connected person, and

(b) might have been expected to have been of a greater amount (“the arm’s length amount”) if the transaction had been between independent persons dealing at arm’s length, is treated as having been of an amount equal to the arm’s length amount.

1216F “UK expenditure” etc

‘(1) In this Part “UK expenditure”, in relation to a video game, means expenditure on goods or services that are used or consumed in the United Kingdom.

(2) Any apportionment of expenditure as between UK expenditure and non-UK expenditure for the purposes of this Part is to be made on a just and reasonable basis.

(3) The Treasury may by regulations amend subsection (1).

1216G “Company tax return”

In this Part “company tax return” has the same meaning as in Schedule 18 to FA 1998 (see paragraph 3(1)).

Chapter 2

Taxation of Activities of Video Game Production Company

Separate video game trade

1216H Activities of video game production company treated as a separate trade

‘(1) This Chapter applies for corporation tax purposes to a company that is the video game production company in relation to a video game.

(2) The company’s activities in relation to the video game are treated as a trade separate from any other activities of the company (including any activities in relation to any other video game).

(3) In this Chapter the separate trade is called “the separate video game trade”.

(4) The company is treated as beginning to carry on the separate video game trade—

(a) when design begins, or

(b) if earlier, when any income from the video game is received by the company.

1216I Calculation of profits or losses of separate video game trade

‘(1) This section applies for the purpose of calculating the profits or losses of the separate video game trade.

(2) For the first period of account the following are brought into account—

(a) as a debit, the costs of the video game incurred (and represented in work done) to date, and

(b) as a credit, the proportion of the estimated total income from the video game treated as earned at the end of that period.

(3) For subsequent periods of account the following are brought into account—

(a) as a debit, the difference between the amount of the costs of the video game incurred (and represented in work done) to date and the corresponding amount for the previous period, and

(b) as a credit, the difference between the proportion of the estimated total income from the video game treated as earned at the end of that period and the corresponding amount for the previous period.

(4) The proportion of the estimated total income treated as earned at the end of a period of account is given by— C / T x I where— C is the total to date of costs incurred (and represented in work done), T is the estimated total cost of the video game, and I is the estimated total income from the video game.

Supplementary

1216J Income from the video game

‘(1) References in this Chapter to income from the video game are to any receipts by the company in connection with the making or exploitation of the video game.

(2) This includes—

(a) receipts from the sale of the video game or rights in it,

(b) royalties or other payments for use of the video game or aspects of it (for example, characters or music),

(c) payments for rights to produce games or other merchandise, and

(d) receipts by the company by way of a profit share agreement.

(3) Receipts that (apart from this subsection) would be regarded as of a capital nature are treated as being of a revenue nature.

1216K Costs of the video game

‘(1) References in this Chapter to the costs of the video game are to expenditure incurred by the company on—

(a) video game-making activities in connection with the video game, or

(b) activities with a view to exploiting the video game.

(2) This is subject to any provision of the Corporation Tax Acts prohibiting the making of a deduction, or restricting the extent to which a deduction is allowed, in calculating the profits of a trade.

(3) Expenditure that (apart from this subsection) would be regarded as of a capital nature only because it is incurred on the creation of an asset (the video game) is treated as being of a revenue nature.

1216L When costs are taken to be incurred

‘(1) For the purposes of this Chapter costs are incurred when they are represented in the state of completion of the work in progress.

(2) Accordingly—

(a) payments in advance of work to be done are ignored until the work has been carried out, and

(b) deferred payments are recognised to the extent that the work is represented in the state of completion.

(3) The costs incurred on the video game are taken to include an amount that has not been paid only if it is the subject of an unconditional obligation to pay.

(4) If an obligation is linked to income being earned from the video game, no amount is to be brought into account in respect of the costs of the obligation unless an appropriate amount of income is or has been brought into account.

1216M Pre-trading expenditure

‘(1) This section applies if, before the company began to carry on the separate video game trade, it incurred expenditure on development of the video game.

(2) The expenditure may be treated as expenditure of the separate video game trade and as if incurred immediately after the company began to carry on that trade.

(3) If expenditure so treated has previously been taken into account for other tax purposes, the company must amend any relevant company tax return accordingly.

(4) Any amendment or assessment necessary to give effect to subsection (3) may be made despite any limitation on the time within which an amendment or assessment may normally be made.

1216N Estimates

Estimates for the purposes of this Chapter must be made as at the balance sheet date for each period of account, on a just and reasonable basis taking into consideration all relevant circumstances.

Chapter 3

Video Game Tax Relief

Introductory

1216O Availability and overview of video game tax relief

‘(1) This Chapter applies for corporation tax purposes to a company that is the video game production company in relation to a video game.

(2) Relief under this Chapter (“video game tax relief”) is available to the company if the conditions specified in the following sections are met in relation to the video game—

(a) section 1216P (intended for commercial release),

(b) section 1216Q (British video game), and

(c) section 1216R (UK expenditure).

(3) Video game tax relief is given by way of additional deductions (see sections 1216S and 1216T).

(4) Section 1216U contains provision about unpaid costs and artificially inflated claims.

(5) In this Chapter “the separate video game trade” means the company’s separate trade in relation to the video game (see section 1216H).

(6) See Schedule 18 to FA 1998 (in particular, Part 9D) for information about the procedure for making claims for video game tax relief.

Conditions of relief

1216P Intended commercial release

‘(1) The video game must be intended for commercial release.

(2) For this purpose—

(a) “commercial release” means distribution to the paying public, and

(b) a video game is not regarded as intended for commercial release unless it is intended that a significant proportion of the earnings from the video game should be obtained by such distribution.

(3) Whether this condition is met is determined for each accounting period of the company during which video game-making activities are carried on in relation to the video game, in accordance with the following rules.

(4) If at the end of an accounting period the video game is intended for commercial release, the condition is treated as having been met throughout that period (subject to subsection (5)(b)).

(5) If at the end of an accounting period the video game is not intended for commercial release, the condition—

(a) is treated as having been not met throughout that period, and

(b) cannot be met in any subsequent accounting period.

This does not affect any entitlement of the company to relief in an earlier accounting period for which the condition was met.

1216Q British video game

‘(1) Subject to subsection (2), a video game is a British video game for the purposes of this Part if it achieves a minimum of 19 points out of a maximum of 37 from the following table, with a minimum of 9 points being obtained in sections A and B:

[Mr Hanson]

As the House will be aware, my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) referred on Second Reading to the fact that we want to bring forward a provision on tax relief in order to help to support the video games industry. Although, undoubtedly, new clause 1 would not do that in every respect, I want to put it before the House, so that we can have an in-principle debate about video game industry tax relief. The new clause provides an opportunity for the House to consider enhanced relief based on UK expenditure on video game production.

The new clause suggests that we might consider qualified tax relief for the video game industry, and that it should be based on strict criteria: the video game must be for commercial release; it must be a British video game, assessed on the basis of a points system; and it must meet a 25% UK expenditure threshold, whereby 25% of the total expenditure on the production and development of the video game is UK expenditure on goods or services. We intended to look at that issue, and I would have tabled a much more detailed new clause, but the advice was that we could not. I hope that I have, however, tabled sufficient proposed changes for the Government to consider bringing back at a future date, or supporting the principle of, tax relief for this vital sector in the United Kingdom.

The video games industry is a real success story for British industry, and we look to support it in detail. As I am sure that the Minister is aware, research from TIGA, which represents the gaming industry, shows that over a five-year period games tax relief could create or save about 3,500 graduate-level jobs, secure £450 million-plus in new and saved development expenditure, and generate about £415 million in new and saved tax relief. I hope that it would do so in a way that ensures that the cost to the Treasury amounts to about £192 million over five years, which would be more than paid for by the jobs and investment, and encouragement to the industry, that that would develop in due course.

My hon. Friends the Members for Dundee West (Jim McGovern), for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) and for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson) have been very vocal in supporting such a tax relief. I hope that the Minister will consider it in principle, so that we can begin to develop a cross-party consensus in due course.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I hope that the Under-Secretary recovers her voice before very long. We wish her better.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

T4. Does the Home Secretary agree with the views of the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change on control orders? Having now had five months in office, does she accept that those of us who exercised such powers on behalf of the Home Office when we were in government did so because we tried to secure the safety of the British people, and we were, indeed, right to do so?

Debate on the Address

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and John Bercow

Tuesday 25th May 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)]

I have a lot of respect for the right hon. Gentleman but it was made clear earlier that there was no intention of having elected chief constables. In Bournemouth, the people who are asking for accountability are asking for a relationship with the police who are in charge. The police there do not answer to the people of Bournemouth directly, but to the Dorset police headquarters in Winfrith, which then answers to the Home Office. The community that needs to be represented is out of the loop. That is why the Government have proposed elected representatives; to provide that important interface between the public and the police who are supposed to be looking after them.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst)]

Order. I should remind the hon. Gentleman and the House as a whole that interventions should, on the whole, be shorter than that.

[Mr Hanson]

It is very important that we have close co-operation between individuals and communities and the police that they serve. That is why the White Paper that we published before Christmas looked at trying to strengthen police authorities and to make them more accountable to local communities, but in a way that did not involve direct elections, which I understand the proposed Bill will do. I fear that, and I pray in aid the Mayor of London—as I recall, one Boris Johnson—who did not take up his role as the directly elected chairman of the police authority and gave it to his deputy. I understand that there is a need for accountability but I do not believe that what the Government propose will achieve that objective. Let us look at the level of objections from professionals and at the needs of the service, which are to reduce crime and to build confidence in policing. I do not believe a shake-up as proposed by the Government will be beneficial.

My second point concerns the reference in the Gracious Speech to the priorities of reducing the deficit and restoring economic growth. I happen not to believe that taking £6 billion out of the economy this year will help those objectives. As my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North said, many private sector companies depend on public sector investment. Taking that £6 billion out now will greatly damage the community at large. When I was Police Minister, we had a proposal to save many millions this year through savings on IT, uniform procurement, vehicles, air support and a whole range of other things. I say this to Government Members; if we could have taken out an extra £200 million to £300 million in efficiency savings, do they think that we would not have done it? That money was not there to take out without impacting on the police service directly or on community support officers. I will challenge the Government and hold them to account on how they take that extra resource out of the Home Office budget.

The Government have proposed to restrict still further the DNA database. Before the election, we proposed that individuals’ DNA data could be held for ever if they had been convicted of a crime or for six years if they had been arrested, charged but not convicted. If the Government are proposing to reduce that, it will damage the potential to get convictions in court. There will be people who are murdering or committing rape who will, if the DNA database is restricted, not be convicted and will be let off. I do not believe that the party of law and order that now forms the Government would want that to happen.

I can show—not today, Mr Deputy Speaker—many cases when the DNA database has led directly to convictions for murder which would not have been achieved had the DNA not been taken, sometimes from individuals who were originally innocent but convicted later. I caution the Government; they must be very careful about the steps they take. I do not want to see people being killed, raped or attacked by individuals who could have been convicted through use of the DNA database.

Finally, I confess that I have an ID card. Since I have had it, I have never felt that my civil liberties were under threat. I have travelled to Austria on this card and used it to cash cheques in Britain and abroad. I have used it to secure a range of services. I have never been asked to show it to anybody and never been asked to explain why I should have it. Before they scrap the card, can the Government look at its benefits? Some individuals hold them voluntarily and wish to use them to travel and to show their identity. Can the Government look at the costs of decommissioning ID cards and the potential difficulties faced by individuals such as myself who paid £30 for the card and probably have £29.50 worth of lifetime left on it, but also at the costs of the computer system? ID cards are a valuable tool in helping to secure our borders and I hope the Government will think carefully before decommissioning them.

As I have already said, this is the first foray for 13 years back to opposing, rather than supporting, the Government. I believe that there is some good in the Gracious Speech, and I welcome it where that is the case, but there are also some real issues to do with the deficit, cutting public spending, crime, reform of the police, DNA databases and ID cards that I will wish to challenge not only today, but in the months ahead. I know that Labour Members will hold the Government to account on every issue on every day of every week of every month, because it is important that we have a strong Opposition. I hope that the Government will welcome the contributions we can make to ensure that they are up to the game in their activities, and that we fulfil our duty as an Opposition as well.