Domestic Abuse: Victims and Survivors

Debate between Lord Hanson of Flint and Baroness Barran

Thursday 12th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Hanson of Flint) (Lab)]

My Lords, I begin by congratulating the noble Baroness, Lady Chisholm, on bringing this debate before the House. As has been seen from the contributions today, there is significant interest and a number of very strong points have been put which the Government will consider. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that we welcome the work done by previous Governments and welcome any support that he, and indeed all Members of this House, can give to the Government to tackle this issue in the longer term.

The important point was made that this takes place at the end of a 16-day period when we have had a very high focus on domestic violence prior to Christmas. It is also important that this House recognises both the work and endorsement of Her Majesty the Queen and the documentary that she has made, and senses the wish of this House to raise the issue and to tackle it with a societal approach. That is a very significant contribution which I very much welcome.

The contributions that we have had all raised a number of different issues. I will try to resolve all those and respond to them in due course; if I cannot, I will write to noble Members about those issues in the meantime.

I want to thank my right honourable friend the Home Secretary, the Minister Jess Phillips and the Minister Alex Davies-Jones for their commitment in developing the plans that I will be outlining now on behalf of the Government, because they are the drivers behind these measures and I want them to be recognised.

In our manifesto, the Government gave a number of key commitments which we will be judged by but which I hope will have the endorsement of the House. The noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, mentioned the scale of the task, and the metrics of measuring it are extremely important. However, the measures that we have put in place of halving violence against women and girls over 10 years, the specialist workers in 999 control rooms that we committed to in the manifesto, the specialist rape investigation units for England and Wales police forces, the police and other interventions to target repeat offenders, and the specialist support in courts to fast-track and support the early resolution of cases are all important, and they are part of the key manifesto commitments that I will refer to now in more detail. Those are important because, as noble Lords mentioned, in the year to March 2024, over one in four women reported experiencing domestic abuse, as well as one in seven men—to pick up the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, made in an intervention.

The point that the noble Lord, Lord Patten, mentioned about elder abuse is extremely important. He and the noble Baroness, Lady Chisholm, both mentioned that. Whatever we say about the level of abuse, abuse with older people may be more hidden, and there may be more confusion and more difficulties, especially in seeking help. We should recognise that, and the Government will certainly reflect on it. For many of the individuals concerned, whatever the level of abuse is, it is a daily occurrence and, tragically, as has been mentioned in a number of contributions, the home is not a safe place, nor does the abuse end when the perpetrator leaves the home. The scale, and the stories mentioned by Members of the House today, should shock us all and lead us to what we need to do, which is to raise awareness and policy issues to tackle this around the country.

I was particularly struck that the briefings before the discussions today did not mention the economic impact in the scale of this problem. I was very interested to learn from the former Prime Minister the noble Baroness, Lady May, and from the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, of the recognition of that economic impact. That is an important point to take away from today.

Quite clearly there is a view from the House that, whoever is in government, we make sure to go further and faster. We are still, sadly, nowhere near where we need to be. I give the commitment that the Government I represent here today are committed to changing that. They require the support of Members who have spoken and of the voluntary agencies mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and others to ensure that we achieve the mission of halving violence against women and girls in the decade ahead.

There are a number of points I want to mention. The question of individuals who have been offenders and reoffend is extremely important. The noble Baroness, Lady Barran; the noble Baroness, Lady Jenkin, in relation to alcohol abuse; and the noble Baroness, Lady Newlove, in relation to reoffending, all mentioned that as a key issue. This is a Ministry of Justice, Home Office and voluntary sector issue, but we have to look at what interventions we can make to target the most prolific and repeat offenders. It is a particularly important issue.

The police clearly have a vital role to play in this. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans mentioned that, and I endorse the comments that he made. We have just introduced the domestic abuse protection orders—Raneem’s law—in a pilot form. The noble Baroness, Lady May, mentioned that and asked specifically about the full provisions of the Domestic Abuse Act 2021 being implemented. I hope I can give her an assurance that the domestic abuse protection orders are the first step on that, and that the Ministry of Justice, which is also party to the Act, is considering full implementation of its Section 62 very shortly. Again, I reach out to her to say that there is, I hope, agreement that this will be done in due course at an early stage.

The noble Baroness, Lady May, also mentioned the way in which employers treat and look at individuals who are subject to domestic violence, who may be hidden, who may come into work and may have challenges and have their performance in their work impacted by the situation at home. It is an extremely important point. Let me say to her that it is not just in the private sector that there are employers: the biggest employer in this country is the UK Government. I hope I can again reassure her that the Government are working closely with organisations such as the Employers’ Initiative on Domestic Abuse, and that the Government will be, or are soon to be, signing up as members of that alliance. Again, that is a really strong point for the Government as a whole.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

A key employer in this is, of course, the police. I am sure the Minister is aware of this. I have never done a day’s training with police officers where at least two or three have not come forward afterwards to disclose that they are victims of domestic abuse and that their partner works in the force. The quickest way to improve our response on the doorstep would be to make sure that the police treat victims of abuse within the force in the same way that we expect them to behave on the doorstep.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful for that intervention. I give the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, the assurance that I will take that back and draw it to the attention of Diana Johnson, the Police Minister, directly, so that she is aware of the issue. The general point here is that Government, as well as regulating, can lead.

I think that the points the noble Baroness, Lady May, made are sound and good. Those are not things I have always said of her, but I mean it in the nicest possible way—we have had several discussions over many years on Home Office responsibilities. I agree with her on this, and I hope that we can work together on those points.

There was also a range of discussion about modern technology. I think it has a role to play. We want to work with the police to ensure that we improve that information, which also relates to the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, just made. We need data-driven tools and algorithms to track and target high-harm offenders. That again goes to the points that the noble Lord, Lord Russell, mentioned earlier. We also need to look at the issue raised by a number of Members of the House on prevention and education. The noble Baroness, Lady Chisholm, herself, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans and a number of other Members mentioned how we improve standards and teach children, male and female—I suggest, in this context, particularly male children—to be respectful, have healthy relationships and understand the meaning of consent, and ensure that they grow up to be adults who, wherever we can, we put prior activity in for to prevent poor behaviour downstream in due course

Throughout all this, the needs of victims are central. My noble friend Lady Hazarika was very focused on victims; the noble Baroness, Lady Newlove, as the Victims’ Commissioner, self-evidently has a focus on victims; the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Bolton, also put at the heart of things how the support of the voluntary sector can help victims as a whole. We know that access to housing, particularly when people cannot return to housing, is important. That is a real priority for government, and I am pleased that this Government have announced a funding increase of £30 million to a total investment of £160 million in the domestic abuse safe accommodation grant of 2025-26 to ensure that local councils can provide front-line accommodation services to help support victims in their workplace.

Housing is important, but victims also need holistic, wraparound services. That involves the National Health Service and schools understanding domestic abuse and victims getting appropriate support. We need to focus on the importance of specialist services, with tailored support for victims and survivors in due course. That all takes resource. The noble Baronesses, Lady Gohir and Lady Brinton, and the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, all looked at the question of resources. There is a spending reviewing process, and there will be a spending review for the three years post 2026-27. The Government have to make choices, and these are representations that will be made. A police settlement will be announced next week, which covers a number of the areas funded. We will have to reflect on that. I know again, from representations from the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, His Majesty’s Opposition Front Bench and others, that resources will be key. That will have to play out in its own way over the next few weeks as we go through the spending review, the police settlement and others.

I turn to the contribution by the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg. She made three very important points. First, I think that the definition of domestic abuse needs to recognise coercive behaviour and the question of reproductive coercive behaviour. I hope I can reassure her that the current definition is designed to do that. We can discuss whether it does in practice, but that is what it is designed to do. Secondly, she mentioned very clearly the question of honour-based violence. I, and my honourable friends the Ministers Jess Phillips and Alex Davies-Jones, have heard loud and clear that there needs to be a robust framework on safeguards for victims. The Government are considering this again. Sometimes I have to stand at this Dispatch Box with a hint but nothing definitive, and I hope that the noble Baroness can understand where we are with that at the moment. She also mentioned domestic homicide. There is a real issue there. The Government are committed to looking at domestic homicide review processes to see whether we can improve them.

The Right Reverend Prelate the Bishop of Newcastle and the noble Baroness, Lady Laing, raised the definition of domestic abuse relating to age. Following the terrible case of Holly Newton, which was mentioned by other Members, our thoughts have to be with the family but, ultimately, we have to do something about that. Therefore, it is important that we look at how we record violent incidents and how the victims are supported, whether they are under 16 or over 16. The police must have information to protect victims and take action against the perpetrators. This is something that we can reflect on, and I would welcome contributions from Members on how we can best do that.

My noble friend Lady Gale and the noble Lord, Lord Meston, mentioned Article 59 of the Istanbul convention. This is an issue on which my noble friend Lady Gale has pressed me previously, and I know she will again. The system of settlements under domestic abuse provisions is currently only for those who have an expectation of being able to settle here when they enter the UK. But our policy review is now looking at the very issues that she has raised. I hate to ask for patience on these matters because I know how important this is and how impatient my noble friend is, but if she can have some patience, we will review this as part of the policy review and look at those issues in due course. The UK ratified the Istanbul convention in 2022 and the convention’s monitors visited the UK in January this year. We look forward to receiving their report and then, I hope, the UK’s compliance with the review in due course.

Colleagues also mentioned the tragic murder of Sara Sharif. I am limited in what I can say, for the simple reason that a conviction has happened but the sentencing has not yet happened. Therefore, I hope noble Lords will understand that while we know who is guilty, we do not yet know what the penalty is and any statement from this Dispatch Box would be interpreted as interfering in that judicial process. I am in a difficult position. My noble friend Lady Hazarika and the noble Baronesses, Lady Newlove and Lady Brinton, raised that issue. Post sentencing, the Government will reflect again on whether there are areas of required action. We need answers. An independent panel will look at those issues in due course. I hope that we can settle that for today, difficult though it is, and in due course reflect on the issues that are ahead of us.

I hope I have covered most of the points that colleagues have raised. To conclude, this Government have a clear agenda to build—