Environment Bill

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Report stage & 3rd reading
Wednesday 26th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I will focus my remarks on the issues I raise in new clause 19. We have talked about deforestation this afternoon and I pay tribute to the Minister in particular, because she has been a driving force in ensuring that the Bill takes significant steps on deforestation, in effect making it illegal and much more challenging to bring the fruits of illegal deforestation to the United Kingdom. That is absolutely right. The stronger the law on that front, the better.

What the Bill does not do, and what it is difficult for any Government to do, is prevent the fruits of legal deforestation arriving in the United Kingdom. Only now do we see the issues in Brazil, where the Bolsonaro Government are looking to pursue further legislative change that could lead to further deforestation in the Amazon—something none of us can afford to let happen. Through the new clause and its underlying principle, I am encouraging the Government to take a step that I believe would make a real difference to those who seek legally to deforest in other parts of the world—to put the power not in the hands of regulators, but in the hands of consumers. I passionately believe that if consumers around the world say no to the consequences of deforestation, it will be much more difficult for Governments or individuals to pursue deforestation, whether it is legal or illegal.

In this country, if I go to the supermarket and want to know whether the product I am buying contains anything that has damaged forests, it is pretty difficult to tell. If I do not want to buy a product with palm oil in it, I have to scrutinise the small print of the ingredients on the back to establish whether it contains palm oil. If there is palm oil, it is even more difficult to work out whether it comes from a sustainable source. Some aspects of our supply chains are invisible, such as whether the soy meal fed to the animals whose meat we eat came from a sustainable source or—much, much more likely—from an unsustainable source. We have to address that issue, and I think one of the ways to do that is to have a proper system of food labelling in this country that indicates whether a product comes from a sustainable source.

There is a lot of work taking place right now in the private sector, by retailers and others, and in the academic sector to look at how we would assess the sustainability of a product. It is about not just the food we buy in a shop, but the ingredients that go into that food. I think labelling should be placed on the sacks of soybean meal that go to feed pigs in our pig farms, as well as on the products that we buy in the shops, to indicate very clearly to buyers and consumers when a product comes from a carefully thought-out, sustainable source and when it does not. Work is being done by big supermarkets, academics and some really innovative smaller food companies to try to ensure that there is a good way of tracking the sustainability of a food source.

In the end, what we cannot have is the wild west of food labelling. What we need is a coherent, single approach that enables a consumer, in an easily recognisable way, to say, “I know that I can buy that in good conscience,” or “I know that that’s a product that creates problems for the environment.” The truth is that that label alone will ensure that the buyer does not buy the product and that it never appears and there is no market for it. My request and message to the Secretary of State and the Minister—I will follow this up over the coming months—is please to follow the path of introducing a single system of sustainable food labelling, sending the message to consumers, “You are empowered to make the right choices.”

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

I want to address most of my remarks to new clause 12 and fracking, but before I turn to that specifically, I want to put on record my concerns about flooding, because we are in a climate and ecological emergency and we are seeing increased instances of flooding. I have certainly witnessed that in my Lancaster and Fleetwood constituency, and it concerns me that at the same time the Environment Agency budget has been cut by a third and the fire and rescue service by a fifth. It is simply not enough to wring our hands while making these cuts, when we cannot respond to the flooding emergency, so I urge the Minister to look again at these cuts and at investing in upland water management.

The Environment Bill is the Government’s first opportunity to bring in equivalent standards to those in the EU regulations, so, frankly, if we cannot secure strong environmental protections in this Bill, it certainly bodes ill for securing workers’ rights and workplace protections. New clause 12 would revoke current fracking licences and prevent the Oil and Gas Authority from being able to provide future licences for hydraulic fracturing, exploration or acidification. Fracking is a big deal in Lancashire. When Cuadrilla started, in just two months 57 earthquakes were detected. Cuadrilla stopped fracking five times because it triggered earthquakes bigger than the Government rules allowed. Even more disturbingly, a year later, an earthquake measuring 2.9 on the Richter scale led to a review by the Oil and Gas Authority, which, worryingly, concluded that it was not possible to predict the probability or size of the tremors caused by fracking.

My Lancashire constituents and, indeed, much of the country were relieved when the Government got around to launching a moratorium halting fracking and exploration with immediate effect, but in the past two years the Government have failed to deliver the legislation that is needed to give effect to their promise. If the Minister is not willing to support new clause 12 today, when will that come? It was a relief that the Government got as far as the moratorium almost two years ago, but we need something concrete—something solid—behind that. If the Minister is to assure my constituents that the Bill is not just empty words, will she accept Labour’s new clause and legislate to ban fracking once and for all?

We know from the Lancashire experiment on fracking that it is a risky way of extracting dirty energy. We have seen that France, Germany, Ireland, Bulgaria, New York state and the Netherlands, as well as Scotland and Wales, all agree, so this is our opportunity to bring England into line. There are so many risks surrounding fracking, and the Government know that or they would not have called the moratorium in the first place. The British Geological Survey is very clear:

“Groundwater may be potentially contaminated by extraction of shale gas”.

In England, groundwater supplies a third of our drinking water.

In addition, the assertion that fracking will lead to a jobs boom is simply not true. Cuadrilla’s application in Lancashire talked about starting just 11 jobs, and that is before we start looking at the jobs that would be put at risk by fracking happening on the Lancashire coast, because so many of our jobs on the Fylde coast are in the tourism industry, and people are not keen to holiday next to fracking wells.

Most importantly, scientists agree that if we are to avoid dangerous levels of global warming, fossil fuels need to stay in the ground. With every application comes huge environmental concern. There is a risk of additional carbon emissions, as well as the understandable anxiety for local people about the impact of earth tremors and water contamination. When will the Minister listen and finally take action? Now is our chance, once and for all, to tell the fracking companies that time’s up, and to put the future of our planet and our communities first.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 30th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am glad that the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), who is responsible for HS2, was able to visit that junction last week with my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Craig Tracey). I am also pleased that Warwickshire County Council has been such a beneficiary of the available funding. While it will be for the council to decide what schemes to support, I hope that it will focus on where it can make the biggest difference to safety.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

This Government are presiding over a sustained fall in the number of bus journeys taken. Just this week, Kent County Council outlined plans to axe more than 70 bus routes in a bid to save £4 million. Does the Secretary of State accept that bus passenger numbers will continue to fall until his Government halt the cuts to local authorities?

[Chris Grayling]

We want bus passenger numbers to rise, and the measures in the Bus Services Act 2017, which passed through the House a few months ago, will provide an environment in which bus ridership can recover and improve and will lead to more and better services around the country.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 5th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the future of the Crown post office network—Post Office Ltd is looking to franchise 39 of the Crown post offices, including Lancaster in my constituency—and the relationship MPs have with Post Office Ltd? Many MPs will agree that they have found Post Office Ltd difficult to work with and to get clear answers from.

[Chris Grayling]

I am sure the hon. Lady’s comments will be noted by the Post Office. It has been through big changes in this Parliament, but we have now finally reached a point where it is much less of a drain on the public purse, and we can spend the money on other priorities. I understand the point she makes, but it is in all our interests in today’s world to spend money where it will be most useful.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 28th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

That is a very important point. We have to be careful about disposing of rail assets, for two reasons, one of which my hon. Friend has just given. The other is that local authorities often have a vision to bring back into use transport corridors for the future, but if they are simply sold off for development, that option is taken away. I am proud that, over the past 15 years, this country has seen the reopening of railway lines and rail corridors. A new service was recently opened from Oxford to London Marylebone and it runs across previously disused lines that have been brought back into operation under Chiltern Railways. My hon. Friend makes an important point, because had it been decided to dispose of some of those facilities, that route would not have been possible. In reopening the line from Oxford to Cambridge, we are already seeing that there are barriers as a result of a previous development. My hon. Friend makes an important point about her own constituency, but it is one that should be learned right across the country.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

Last month in business questions I raised the case of my constituent who took the drug sodium valproate, which is an effective treatment for epilepsy but which left her children with birth defects. The Leader of the House recommended that I try to raise the matter at Health questions, but unfortunately I was not successful. Does he have any advice for me on how I can raise the issue of sodium valproate and birth defects?

[Chris Grayling]

The Minister for Community and Social Care has just arrived in the Chamber, so he probably heard what the hon. Lady said. I will raise the issue directly with the Department of Health for her at the end of this sitting, and I will ask the appropriate Minister to respond to her. She makes an important point, and we have to be enormously careful about it. There are many drugs that make a big difference to our society, but where unexpected side effects cause the kinds of problems she refers to, it is right and proper that that is looked at enormously carefully.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 14th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

First, let me say how deeply shocked we all were by that terrible murder and we were even more shocked by the motivation behind it. I know the Ahmadiyya Muslim community well. I have met His Holiness and members of the community, and I know the good work they do in our country, the positive role that they play in our communities and how they want to bridge gaps between different communities in this country. The fact that shortly before his death Mr Shah had published a message of goodwill to Christians is a sign of what a valuable part of our community the Ahmadis are. The hon. Gentleman is right. As you will know, Mr Speaker, they are persecuted around the world. We should always be willing to be their defenders.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House will be aware that we have just had Women and Equalities questions. I hope he is also aware that the Minister for Women and Equalities informed my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) that she is happy to have topical questions as part of that Question Time to allow Members to raise issues that have come up after the shuffle. Can he give the House any indication of when topical questions might be implemented for Women and Equalities questions?

[Chris Grayling]

I have said previously that I am open to change, and that change of this kind may be possible as we move into a new Session. We will have discussions about a number of issues, and I have talked about whether we should consider merging business questions and Leader of the House questions. There are a number of other areas in which we could make changes to the time allocated. We are considering these things and will have cross-party discussions about them. We are certainly open to making that kind of change.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 17th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I know that this is an issue of concern. The Government are seeking to ensure that we use the money we have as effectively as possible and that we fund the right mix of pharmacies. We obviously want there to be pharmacies in all communities that require them. I have no doubt that this issue will be brought before the House in due course. I can only say that my right hon. Friend the Minister for Community and Social Care, who is the Minister with responsibility for this issue, is incredibly sensitive to the concerns the hon. Lady raises. I know he will seek to do the right thing in making sure that we have a proper balance in relation to spending money wisely and maintaining the right mix of pharmacy services.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House provide time for a debate on the effects of sodium valproate? This drug is given to treat epilepsy and other neurological conditions, but it has a powerful impact on unborn babies. My constituent Janet Williams has campaigned about this for a great many years, following the birth of her two sons, who had foetal abnormalities because of that drug, which is still being prescribed today.

[Chris Grayling]

This is obviously a very difficult and sensitive issue. I do not know enough about the circumstances of the drug, but I will make sure that the Health Secretary is aware of the concerns that the hon. Lady raises. I believe that he will be in the Chamber next week, and I ask her to bring up this issue with Health Ministers then.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 21st January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Library services remain of enormous importance to people in this country. It is striking how Conservative councils have faced the financial challenges, which all local authorities face, innovatively while still managing to deliver quality services, while Labour councils, all too often, cannot provide the efficiencies we need while protecting those services.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

Last week in Women and Equalities questions we could not ask any direct questions about the Select Committee’s report on the transgender issue. Will the Leader of the House consider allowing time for Topical Questions as part of Women and Equalities Question Time?

[Chris Grayling]

I am happy to consider that. We review the structure of questions from time to time. The hon. Lady might also wish to take the matter to the Backbench Business Committee to secure a debate. We now make a substantial block of time available to the Committee, as we have heard today. It is a good opportunity for Select Committees to seek time for debates about reports.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 17th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This issue has come up in some of my constituency cases in the past. I have not had any such cases recently, but it is always a matter of concern to us. We do not want people not to get jobs because the appropriate certification has not come through. I will make sure that the Home Secretary is aware of the concerns raised by the right hon. Gentleman.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

Happy Christmas, Mr Speaker. May we have a debate on the access to elected office fund, which supports disabled candidates in elections, given the Government’s decision to cut funding?

[Chris Grayling]

Of course, we have regular Electoral Commission questions—we have just had them—so the hon. Lady has an opportunity to raise such issues. We continue to try to provide support where we can for things that require it. In recent years, however, we have had to take some difficult decisions in order to make sure that we have stable public finances.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 29th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I have certainly spotted the degree of support for this particular motion, and I am aware of the desire to debate it. There is quite a lot of time allocated through the Backbench Business Committee for debates in this House. I know my hon. Friend is going to return to the issue of the House business committee shortly, but there is a very simple avenue available if he wants to get a motion such as this one debated. The hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee, which is that avenue, is sitting over there on the Opposition Benches.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House may be aware of the case of 26-year-old Tara Hudson, a trans woman who has been sentenced to serve her prison sentence in a men’s prison. The good news is that I have heard today that she is being moved to a women’s prison. Will the right hon. Gentleman allow a statement to be made to clarify the procedures for the sentencing of trans prisoners?

[Chris Grayling]

I am aware of the case. These are often very difficult issues, and they are typically dealt with by the Prison Service or the judiciary. Detailed decisions thus tend to be outwith the remit of Ministers. I know that my colleagues in the Ministry of Justice will always want decisions of this kind to be taken carefully and sensitively. Those colleagues will face the House for questions next Tuesday, and I am sure that they will listen to the hon. Lady’s concerns then.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 9th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This is an enormously important issue. The success of this country will depend on the quality of the technology we have available to carry out our daily work. My right hon. and hon. Friends in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport will have heard the comments that were made earlier about the availability of mobile signals in rural areas. I can assure my hon. Friend that this will continue to be a priority for this Government.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

Many of my constituents are glad that they do not have to travel on the Pacer trains, but those trains have been replaced by class 37s, which were built in 1960 and are long past their sell-by date. May I echo the concerns that have been expressed by my hon. Friends on this matter and call for a debate on rail in the north and where it is going?

[Chris Grayling]

The Labour party has a substantial allocation of Opposition days. If it wants a debate on rail in the north, it can choose to have one. I simply repeat what I said earlier: in 13 years of Labour Government our rail network essentially stood still. It is only this Government that are trying to take it forward.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Cat Smith

Thursday 28th May 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am a great supporter of our magistracy. Magistrates are volunteers, and they do a fine job for our country. They play an important role in communities throughout the country, and we should be grateful to all of them for what they do. I fear that my hon. Friend will have to wait for an announcement from my right hon. Friend the new Lord Chancellor, who is currently getting his feet under the table, but I know that my right hon. Friend agrees with me about the importance of the work done by magistrates, and I have no doubt that, as time goes by, he will present further proposals that will enable us to make the best possible use of them.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House grant time for a debate on the issue of fracking in Lancashire, which is of great concern to many of my constituents?

[Chris Grayling]

The issue has been widely debated in the House, and I know that it is of concern to the hon. Lady’s constituents. However, I also believe that it is important to ensure that we have proper, affordable supplies of energy for the future. We must deal with the issue carefully and sensitively. There will be plenty of opportunities for the hon. Lady to raise it during next week’s debate on the Queen’s Speech or by means of an Adjournment debate, and I know that she will be a champion of her constituents in this regard. I must say to her, however, that it is very important to, in particular, the pensioners in her constituency for us to ensure that there is affordable energy for all our futures.