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Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Lamont of Lerwick

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, it is the turn of the noble Baroness from the Green Party, followed by my noble friend Lord Lamont.

Sir Richard Henriques Report

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Lamont of Lerwick

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

First, the noble Lord will know that Wiltshire Police dismissed the claims of Nick. On his question of who the IOPC is trying to protect, the IOPC is independent of both government and the police, and it is absolutely right that such a body exists to be able to scrutinise them.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Henriques report on both the police force and the IOPC. I regret to have to make this point, but will my noble friend also comment on the role of Tom Watson, who seems to have unduly pressurised the police and who made the terrible remark about the late Lord Brittan that he was as near to evil as any human being could be—a remark made without any real foundation? Does she not agree that anyone who can make such a remark on such flimsy evidence is not fit to hold public office?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend reminds me of how the influence of public figures can influence the progress of an investigation. The decisions that Tom Watson makes about his future will be a matter for him, but it is very important that in the future the police are allowed to get on and do their job without external influence, particularly from people who are quite influential themselves.

Taqiyya and Al Hijra

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Lamont of Lerwick

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I most certainly agree with the most reverend Primate, who speaks so much sense on so many things. I also agree that Daesh has nothing to do with Islam. As for the noble Lord’s original Question, both Taqiyya and Al Hijra are very old terms in Islam. We can think of all sorts of terms in all sorts of religions that can seek to misrepresent those religions, and we must take that in context and not allow poisonous twisting of religion to disrupt our society.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that, according to the authorities that I have consulted, Taqiyya refers to the Prophet’s flight from Mecca to Medina and is about concealing your own religious beliefs when confronted with the threat of persecution and death? Surely it would be as wrong to criticise Taqiyya as it would be to criticise Jews who concealed their identity in Nazi Germany, or Christians in Raqqa. Is there not a great danger that the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, will be interpreted as meaning that Islam promotes deceit and lies, and is it not important that he should make clear that is not what he meant?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally agree with my noble friend, and as he was asking that question I was thinking about Catholics during the Reformation and Jews during the Second World War. Sometimes religions have to preserve themselves not by denial but by concealment on pain of death.

Islam: Tenet of Abrogation

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Lamont of Lerwick

Monday 12th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I have to say that I think that the first part of the noble Lord’s statement is factually incorrect. We work with communities to make them resilient and we certainly support the discussion of religion, as we are doing now, as we speak. This is a country that prides itself on freedom of speech—unless people are actually inciting others to intolerance or hatred—and that is something of which I am very proud.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that a Muslim scholar, whom I consulted today, told me that there is no unanimity in the Islamic world about which verses of the Koran are abrogated by later verses? It is completely wrong of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, to ascribe the views of some hard-line Wahhabis and Salafists as though they were the views of mainstream Sunni, Sufi and Shia Muslims. That is not the case, and all that the noble Lord does by repeating this—as he has done before—is to undermine the position of moderate Muslims in this country.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I could not have put it better than my noble friend; that is absolutely right. The vast majority of Muslims in this country share our values and share most of the things that we would aspire to for our children and our communities. We should not make blanket statements about a very small minority.

Operation Midland

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Lamont of Lerwick

Wednesday 9th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we had a very good debate on this in the last couple of weeks and there is a general principle: people should remain anonymous before charge, but there are circumstances in which names may be released and it is in order for victims to come forward. I must say to the noble Baroness that victims’ groups support that principle.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that some of us saw at first hand the suffering of Lord Brittan, who died before his name could be cleared? Can the Minister explain why the text of this report, which appears an appalling indictment of the Metropolitan Police, cannot be published absolutely in full? Secondly, why could a copy of it not have been given to Lady Brittan before it was made public? Why could she not see the full report? Lastly, is it correct—as reported in some newspapers—that the search warrant for Lord Brittan’s house after he died was made out in the name of Lord Brittan, which, if true, would surely be improper procedure?

UK: Number of Households

Debate between Baroness Williams of Trafford and Lord Lamont of Lerwick

Monday 29th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for furnishing me with a figure beforehand of an increase of two-thirds. I have asked the ONS to look into this figure and if he is agreeable, I will confirm it in due course. In terms of supply and demand, we are focusing on both those things. We are doing many things to address the demand on housing in this country from overseas, including tightening the rules for family and student visas.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the country has benefited from both skilled and, to some extent, unskilled immigration, but that the appropriate measure of the extent to which this is so is not GDP growth but GDP per capita? Judged by that standard, the evidence is somewhat doubtful. Does she further agree that GDP growth reflects nothing but population growth, is of no particular economic advantage and, as the noble Lord, Lord Green, has pointed out, merely adds to the pressure on infrastructure and housing?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

There is no doubt that there is pressure on housing demand from all sorts of sources, including immigration. The point that I was trying to make is that we want skilled people to come here to fill some of the skills gaps, but we do not want people simply coming here to look for work without having secured a job.