Elections Bill

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 2 & Committee stage
Thursday 10th March 2022 Lords Chamber

That is why they should not stand part of the Bill.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, drew a parallel between the Electoral Commission and Ofcom. However, Ofcom has a huge and evolving remit; inevitably, it has to respond to changes in government policy in areas as diverse as regulating the spectrum and the quality of broadcasting. The Electoral Commission is a very different beast, with a very straightforward role: to oversee elections and regulate political finance to ensure that we have a free and fair election system.

It describes its job as working

“to promote public confidence in the democratic process and ensure its integrity”.

What could a Government want to do to change that? It is simple, straightforward and easily understood. I cannot understand what the policy statement enshrined in Clauses 14 and 15 would add to that quite straightforward purpose. Nothing I have heard today has helped me in that direction, and I hope the Minister might be able to answer the question that others have asked: what is the purpose of this?

That there is room for improvement in the way the commission operates is true, but the proposed policy statement is simply not the way to accomplish that. In my experience, when it comes to elections, political parties have one overriding objective: to win as many votes as possible. Indeed, in the 2015 general election, the Conservative Party was so keen to win votes in South Thanet that it drove a coach and horses—and, indeed, a battle bus—through the rules. So egregious were the breaches that in 2019, Mr Justice Edis, presiding over the subsequent court case, was highly critical of what he termed Conservative Central Office’s

“culture of convenient self-deception and lack of clarity about what was permissible in law and what was not.”

The senior central office employee who was instrumental in this electoral fraud was sentenced to nine months in prison on 22 counts. It was only because of her personal circumstances that the sentences were suspended. There is no doubt that Conservative Central Office is not the only political headquarters to have played fast and loose with the rules if it thought it could. That is why we do not want political parties anywhere near the Electoral Commission.

Those who drafted Clause 14 may have done so with the most honourable intentions in mind but, as has been said, these clauses could have a truly malevolent effect on our electoral system. There is an unpleasant whiff about them, and it could evolve into a foul stink. The positive case for these clauses has simply not been made, and I therefore support the removal of these clauses from the Bill.

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

My Lords, I am somewhat conflicted in this debate, to the extent that I, unlike a number of noble Lords who have spoken previously, do not view the Electoral Commission through rose-tinted spectacles. I shall refer to one or two problems that I and others have had with it recently. I have, however, had the opportunity to meet and deal with Mr John Pullinger, its new chairman; I wish him well and believe—partly because of what he has done in relation to some of the issues that I have had—that he will actually change the culture in the Electoral Commission.

I was fascinated by the contribution just now from the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft. I must declare an interest, because the person to whom she and the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, referred is a close personal friend of mine, but I will not deal with the case as such. The noble Baroness aired the view that, although CCHQ had been found guilty of an offence, it was almost certain that the other parties did the same. That is actually the problem—

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, I was not insinuating that other political parties had played fast and loose in that particular election. I merely meant that, had they felt able to in some elections, they might have done.

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

I am sorry; I did not make myself clear. I was referring not specifically to that election but to elections in general, which is what I took to be the comment of the noble Baroness.

I will first cover the Electoral Commission and then come on to this particular clause. As the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, said first and others have said later, the Electoral Commission is required to produce an independent, free and fair set of elections. It is not required to start intruding in terms of developing or interpreting legislation. I was brought up to believe that these two Houses and the judges—the judiciary —decided how our laws operated. But, unfortunately, the Electoral Commission has moved into that field. I say that with reference to the debate in this Chamber on 6 January on the progress of regulatory bodies into fields and issuing edicts that they are saying are law.

I refer here not to the case that I just raised but to the availability of electoral rolls. They are key if you are going to investigate corruption in Tower Hamlets, but access to them is being denied by the Electoral Commission. In an email, it said that, unfortunately, “the law is silent” on this matter. It then went on to develop policy on it, effectively saying that it is law. It has issued instructions to EROs on a certain basis.

Later in the Bill, I shall cover the fascinating development of the law of secrecy when it comes to a polling booth, a practice that we have had for 150 years. The Electoral Commission is now changing the processes—it is changing the law—which is why I have tabled an amendment to stop it doing what it appears to be doing.

The noble Lords, Lord Rennard, Lord Wallace and Lord Kennedy, are all aware of the difficulties that I have had with it since early August on accredited observers—people who can be allowed into a polling station. The Minister wanted to go into a polling station in a by-election in Tower Hamlets and was told that she could not because she was political. She, or her office, was making those arrangements with the chief executive of Tower Hamlets. Nothing in law says that an accredited observer cannot be a political individual. I would have been quite happy if the Labour or Lib Dem spokesmen in the Commons or the Lords had gone to witness the problems there, but, suddenly, the Electoral Commission said, “You cannot do that”. Nothing in law says that.

What makes it worse—this is where I disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake—is that the Electoral Commission does not admit its failings. As I say, I made correspondence available to other parties throughout, contemporaneously, and came to the conclusion that, in the way it has operated, the Electoral Commission is institutionally arrogant. It will not admit its failings, to the extent that, despite representations, detailed letters and failures to reply, when challenged about the refusal to allow the Minister into a polling station—it had been involved in conversations some 10 or 15 days before the by-election—it said immediately afterwards that it was not aware of a Minister being prevented from entering a polling station. This is despite the fact that, two and a half months later, it admitted that it had had conversations with the Cabinet Office and the Minister’s office, not to mention one with me in a polling station and with a local councillor, all of whom the Electoral Commission officials are saying it stopped, in one form or another.

What was fascinating was that, when confronted with all these different things, Electoral Commission kept saying, “We didn’t say it.” The Cabinet Office officials thought it did, as did the Ministers and the staff at Tower Hamlets. I believe it did. It is not a body which has previously been willing to admit its failures. As I say, it failed to do so when—

Devolved Governments: Public Expenditure

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 20th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, I think we all know that the Barnett formula was something of a fudge, put together many years ago. It is an extremely complicated thing to try to unravel. We know that the amount of funding that goes to individual citizens is favourable to the devolved regions, but the formula is not necessarily satisfactory—so I would encourage the noble Lord to keep up his campaign to push for a review.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, given the Minister’s dislike of waste in government, could he comment on the article earlier this month by the Comptroller of the National Audit Office, Gareth Davies? He criticised the lack of any formal process for evaluating both the efficiency and delivery of cross-government projects. He said that there was very little information on

“what difference is made by the billions”

spent by government. What does the Minister think of that?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

I think the noble Baroness makes a very good point. I will suggest to the relevant Ministers that the work on the fiscal framework, announced in October, includes a review of the points raised.

Money Laundering

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 13th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

It is important to remind the House that the overseas territories are independent entities and that we cannot just force them to comply with our own regulations. But we have an ongoing dialogue with them. For example, we have a very useful exchange of information through the exchange of notes arrangements, and they have agreed to introduce publicly accessible registers of companies’ beneficial ownership. The discussions are very much ongoing and I respect the right reverend Prelate’s concern.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, at the anti-corruption summit in 2016, the Government committed to producing a register of overseas owners of British properties. In 2018, they produced a draft Bill on that which has still to become law. Could the Government say whether they are in fact committed to stopping this sort of overseas activity in the UK?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, I can assure the House that we are absolutely committed to stopping that. I accept that the introduction of the Bill is taking too long, but active discussions are going on at the moment about a new economic crime Bill and I hope that we might see its introduction within the next few months.

Brexit Opportunities

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 16th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I have a huge amount of sympathy with the thrust of my noble friend’s comment. It is about bringing back democracy and restoring the authority of this Parliament. I recognise the controversy about the Henry VIII clauses, as he describes them. They deal with a particular situation involving the inherited EU law and the complexities of managing the legal transformation out of the European Union, and I hope that they will be seen in that very specific context.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister now boasts on his Twitter feed profile:

“You don’t get something for nothing, you can’t have freedom for free.”


Apparently, it is from a Rush song from “2112”. I do not recall him carrying that message around as he was leading us into Brexit. Since we have heard what we are going to do with that new-found freedom, in the absence of an impact assessment, can he tell us at what cost this freedom has been bought?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I do not think it has been bought at any cost. I make no apology for standing up for freedom—free enterprise and freedom to think and debate—and that is what we did not have very much of in the final years of our EU membership until the referendum. It is axiomatic, in my view, that free debate, free enterprise, free economies and the ability to change your Government will always benefit the countries that have those things. There is a lot of empirical evidence around the world that that proposition is correct.

Government Departments: Non-Executive Directors

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Wednesday 8th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I repeat that the vacancies for non-executive board members are advertised on the Government’s public appointments website. Appointees are subject to a shortlisting panel interview, with the appropriate mediators and the appropriate composition.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, in a speech in June this year, the Minister for the Cabinet Office, Michael Gove, opined on the useful challenge and enhanced scrutiny that non-executive directors would bring to boards—yet in August last year the Times found that eight out of 13 appointments, including four to the Cabinet Office board, were, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, might say, “ducks”. They all had close allegiance to the Conservative Party. Will the Minister explain how merit determined that eight out of 13 should have close political allegiance?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, again, I am not following any implication of disparagement of the honour of those who are serving as non-executive board members. The Government are grateful and I would submit that, if we could see into the future, we would probably find that future Governments will be grateful for the public spirit of those people who come forward to help government departments run in a more businesslike manner. The majority will be people with great business experience who are used to driving up performance in large organisations. I cite from the Cabinet Office, for example, the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe.

Cash Network

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

To reassure the noble Baroness, there are still some 40,000 ATMs in the country at the last count, and we remain committed to supporting their continuation. Link, the payment services provider for cash machines, has restated that a number of times. The other side of the coin is that the percentage of transactions using cash has declined dramatically; it was 56% of all transactions in 2010, and is now down to 17%. The usage is declining, which is why some of these facilities are going.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, post offices are highly valued by the communities they serve. Will the Government consider committing to the Post Office’s future by developing it as “The People’s Bank”, providing cash withdrawal facilities in the communities that need them?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, the Post Office plays a vital role in supporting payments across the system. There are some 11,000 post offices, and some 95% of business customers and 99% of personal banking customers are able to deposit cheques, check their balances and withdraw and deposit cash. The banking framework allows banking via post offices.

House of Lords Appointments Commission

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, according to today’s Times, the publisher of Burke’s Peerage put in a draft letter to Mahfouz Marei Mubarak, saying that his donations to Prince Charles’s charity would ensure him a knighthood, followed by membership of the House of Lords. We do not know if that letter was sent, but we do know that Mr Mubarak received a CBE and that the author of the letter was instrumental in getting that. We also know that this episode can only add to the belief that membership of your Lordships’ House can be purchased.

Unfortunately, the actions of this Government have given credence to this view—most notably, as the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has pointed out, in the case of the Prime Minister’s decision to appoint as a Peer someone whom the House of Lords Appointments Commission had vetoed but who had given large sums to the Conservative Party. That this decision was rewarded by the new Peer making a further substantial donation to the party perhaps should not have been surprising.

It will only further damage the standing of this House if such behaviour occurs again. The noble Baronesses, Lady Meyer and Lady Noakes, may defend the power of patronage in the Prime Minister, but surely that power can exist only if it is to be used responsibly. Putting the Appointments Commission on a statutory footing would ensure that it could only be used that way. The noble Lord, Lord Jay of Ewelme, who chaired the commission between 2008 and 2013, expressed the view even then that it needed the powers of a statutory body, and that is even more the case today.

European Union (Future Relationship) Act 2020 (References to the Trade and Cooperation Agreement) Regulations 2021

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations in such a straightforward way, and I thank him even more for not going into any more examples of the effect that they will have. Given the fact that they moved from 780 articles to 783, there was clearly scope for him to have at least filled up his full allocation of time with examples that we really do not need. As he said, this is a technical regulation, and I am sure that noble Lords will support it. However, I fear that it will not provide the clarity and do away with the confusion that exists in matters of the TCA that the Minister referred to. I will highlight a couple of issues.

First, on the product conformity rules, at the moment, the UK largely recognises the CE designation on UK and EU products but will not continue doing that after January 2022. Can the Minister assure me that businesses are being made fully aware of the fact that, come January 2022, products bearing the CE designation will not be acceptable in the UK and will have to have the UK designation for safety requirements upon them?

Secondly, I will go into the issue of the Northern Ireland protocol and the how it affects UK trade and the TCA. When that TCA was introduced, the British Government, in a statement updated this month, said that the TCA, agreed in December,

“changes the basis of our relationship with our European neighbours from EU law to free trade and friendly cooperation.”

Today we are told by the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Frost, that we are seeing a relationship which is punctuated with legal challenges, characterised by disagreement and mistrust. That sounds rather different from what was envisaged when we went into this business.

Now that we have embarked on a new attempt to try to restructure what was always destined for failure—the Northern Ireland protocol—and negotiations are going to be extremely difficult, does the Minister believe the time may have arrived for us to change negotiators and have a fresh start for a fresh relationship that might be based on trust rather than the mistrust which the noble Lord, Lord Frost, says exists at the moment? Might he also bear in mind, when those renegotiations take place, something the German Government said on 5 July of this year when referring to the trade and co-operation agreement? They said that

“Although the European Union would have wished it, unfortunately the agreement does not contain any provisions on cooperation in the sphere of foreign and security policy.”


That seems a significant lack, and I know that others in the House agree. Might the Minister consider whether this is the opportunity to try, in a spirit of co-operation and trust, to reinstitute co-operation in the sphere of foreign and security policy?

Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 24th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

I give both sides the courtesy of believing that they are negotiating in good faith. I am sure they are but, as I said frequently in the negotiations last year, the European Union spent a bit too much time speculating on our intentions and not looking at actions and what we said. To turn that principle around, we look at the actions of the European Union on Northern Ireland and the things it does and says about the protocol. Those actions and words, in the way we are operating the protocol, cause the difficulties we are facing, so I urge, as we always do, thought about pragmatic and proportionate solutions as the way forward.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, on 7 November 2019, the Prime Minister said of the Northern Ireland protocol:

“There will be no forms, no checks, no barriers of any kind.”


Can the Minister say how the Prime Minister reached that conclusion?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

At the time, we faced the need to find pragmatic and proportionate ways to implement the protocol in a balanced way, respecting all the dimensions of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement—east-west, as well as north-south. If we are to find a solution, it will be in re-establishing that balance and making sure that east-west trade is subject to as few difficulties as possible, so that the balance in these arrangements can be re-established.

UK–EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Meetings of Bodies

Baroness Wheatcroft Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, unfortunately, I am not sure that I agree with my noble friend that we would be in a significantly different position if that committee had met. There have been quite a lot of discussions on SPS issues in various contexts over the past few months, although the committee has not met formally, and we have not managed to find constructive agreements on that subject—although we keep trying. I am confident that the committee will meet before the summer break, and of course we continue to discuss these matters extensively with the EU.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

My Lords, in negotiating the TCA, the UK Government succeeded in putting the UK’s extradition arrangements with the EU on a similar unbalanced footing to those with the US. We continue to extradite to the EU, but 20 EU countries will not extradite directly here. Are negotiations going on to try to rectify that?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, extradition arrangements were indeed the subject of quite a large part of the negotiations, and in our view—the Government’s view—the agreement that we reached with the EU deals with many of the defects that were present in the earlier European arrest warrant system. It is part of the standard way in which extradition arrangements work that member states can, in certain circumstances, refuse to extradite their own nationals, and some member states have made that clear. We continue to discuss this issue with the Commission and all the member states concerned.