Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, I, too, support the amendment. I want to focus particularly on integration in terms of what is provided by an acute hospital, compared with what is provided in the community. The noble Earl will know how many times I have spoken about how important and welcome it is that—as my noble friend Lady Pitkeathley said—the Bill includes social care and the patient pathway. However, the patient pathway does not and will not happen for the very reasons that this amendment identifies. It does not happen because of the integration described in the patient pathway, all parts of which patients are attached to, and all parts of which the providers of care try to work to. It will not happen unless the commissioners ensure two things. First, the tariff must make it happen. A tariff must be developed which says that this should be done somewhere else and we must say what the tariff measurement will be. Secondly, they must account for it. We know that while very often commissioners—certainly in the clusters that I am involved with in north-central London—try hard to prevent patients from going to hospital and to prevent repeat visits to hospital, in reality it does not work.

I am very supportive of this part of this Bill, and very keen on the integrated elements, not just with the local authorities—as has been said—but also within the health provision itself, because it is not happening now. These amendments address just that. Can we please hear from the Minister that he understands that the only way for people to be treated nearer to home is by addressing what the tariff is and how we measure it, as well as through accountability of both of the Commissioning Board and Monitor to ensure that this happens? Even in well intentioned trusts, it does not happen because there is nothing in place to make it happen.

[Lord Sutherland of Houndwood]

My Lords, I support the amendment for three reasons. First, were it to be implemented, the effectiveness of the care provided would be magnified and significantly improved for every individual involved. Secondly, there would be better value for money. Whether we like it or not, the two professions fight with each other over budget: that is the reality. Unless they are pushed towards talking to each other seriously—which this amendment does—that will continue, and we will have the consequence of expensive hospital care militating against the provision of adequate home care. Thirdly, human beings are individuals. Over time especially, they have a number of ailments that need to be seen together, and they need to be treated as individuals. An individual does not break up into bits, going to one institution for part of his or her care and to a second institution for another part. There is a real difficulty here. Previous research shows very clearly that trying to put a dividing line between health and social care does not work.

We hear statements implying that it is going to be really quite difficult. This is not rocket science. It must be based on two professions coming together. This is being done in Scotland at the moment, and they have found ways to move ahead. I understand that there are pilots going on in England at the moment sponsored by the department, and I look forward with great interest to seeing what comes out of these. However, there is a lacuna in the Bill regarding how health and social care integrate. As long as this is so, the amendment would push things forward significantly.

Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Monday 13th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Walton, for that. It is an extremely important step forward and it recognises that there is an existing problem that requires the GMC to take that stance. I think that there is a distinction between gagging clauses and the sort of persuasion and pressure that may be applied to clinicians behind the scenes under such circumstances. This amendment focuses on the organisation’s responsibility and on how the managers and lawyers within an organisation should meet those obligations of candour.

I know that there has been some concern—I think that the Minister has expressed it at various points—about whether the CQC would be able to cope with regulating this duty of candour. It is worth making it clear that there is no question of asking the CQC routinely to monitor every incident with patients; it is simply about the expectation that it will be there as the backstop.

There is already a duty in the CQC’s statutory registration regulations to report to the CQC incidents that cause harm, but it is a duty which requires the organisation to report the incident to the CQC and not to the patient. It is rather anomalous that there is an obligation requiring an organisation to report something to the CQC but not to the patient at the same time. Quite clearly the CQC should have this information and be able to respond to and deal with it.

The point is that the CQC has always said that it could regulate this requirement if the Department of Health so wished. I think that there has been some recent correspondence with the Department of Health which has recognised that the CQC is currently under considerable resource constraints. However, I have seen copies of e-mails released under the Freedom of Information Act—

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

I thank the noble Lord for giving way for the second time. I certainly support the amendment but I worry about the examples that he has used. The cases that he has put forward and the experience of the patients and families concerned are horrendous and outrageous, but what I found troubling and certainly did not recognise at all was when he went on to say that the coercion, rather than gagging, that might take place inside, for instance, a provider trust such as my own—Barnet and Chase Farm—would discourage people from being anything but frank. I have now been the chair of Barnet and Chase Farm for five years. The chair is at the end of the process and during the process has the opportunity to talk to people. I hope that my trust is not unique but in five years I have never known that kind of culture at Barnet and Chase Farm. The noble Lord is looking askance but I ask him to trust me. From my experience—and I hope that it is not a lone experience—I can assure him that that culture does not exist inside my trust; nor, I am sure, does it exist in others. In fact, the opportunity to come clean is used by my trust in the whole way in which patients are dealt with and, indeed, when patients tragically die. If what the noble Lord is saying does happen, then the amendment is absolutely crucial. However, I do not recognise it.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that intervention. She has highlighted the fact that there are different practices around the NHS. Quite a number of trusts take a very positive approach, as she has described, whereby the natural assumption is that you are open because that is what the Department of Health would expect. However, the number of instances where that is not always the case and not always the culture that is adopted, is striking. That was, for example, reflected in the group of families that I met whose family member had died while being detained under the Mental Health Act; it was reflected in the case of Robbie Powell; and it was reflected in a large number of the other cases that the patient organisations which the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, listed, have come across.

So there are two cultures within the NHS and we need to ensure that the culture within the NHS is the best. That is why a statutory duty of candour would support the process, rather than hinder it. It would not cut across the position of the individual professions—indeed it would support it—and, as the noble Lord, Lord Walton, has highlighted, there has been much recognition by the General Medical Council that this is an issue—

Health: Stroke Care

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Monday 13th February 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the consistency of care for stroke patients across England, and whether the progress made in London will inform the development of their policy on stroke care.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, stroke patients are getting faster and better treatment than ever before. The latest data show that more than 80 per cent of stroke patients spend the majority of their hospital stay on a stroke unit—a 20 per cent improvement since 2009. We want the stroke community to share and learn from what works, such as the London model of providing stroke services. The stroke improvement programme plays a central role in disseminating this knowledge.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

I thank the Minister for his response. I remind him of the debate on stroke that we had very recently. The evidence is very clear that early intervention with stroke, as with many other diseases, plays a key part in ensuring that the cure is of longer standing. The noble Earl will know that last year’s CQC report highlighted the huge differences and inconsistencies in what happens. It would be good if we could have an assurance that the London model will be rolled out and taken on board by the national commission.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness that the London model has, indeed, been a model for others to follow. All Londoners now have 24-hour access to hyper-acute stroke care regardless of where they live, and London has one of the highest rates of thrombolysis for any large city in the world. It may not be appropriate to replicate precisely a model of care which works well in a densely populated capital as regards more rural areas, but that is where the expertise of the stroke improvement programme is essential in working with stroke networks across the country, sharing best practice and improving outcomes for stroke patients.

Health: Stroke Care

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, I, too, congratulate my noble friend Lady Wheeler on picking an opportune moment for this debate and on her concentration on after-stroke care. If you talk to clinicians involved in stroke, they say that the treatment you get immediately has a major effect on what may happen later on, so I want to concentrate on the situation in London. Many noble Lords will know that in London 6,000 people a year suffer a stroke. London is the region that has done most to improve its management of acute stroke. In the past, if you had a stroke in London, you could have been taken to any one of the 38 hospitals which have an A&E department. This fragmented care meant that too many patients were not getting the care and rehabilitation they needed. Over the past two years, London has reorganised stroke care. If you suffer a stroke now in London, you are taken rapidly to one of eight specialist hyperacute units capable of delivering the highest quality care from an expert team of clinicians. Following this, you will receive specialist, multitherapy rehabilitation care and ongoing medical supervision in one of 24 new stroke units.

The results show a dramatic improvement. The new arrangements will save between 300 and 500 lives a year with a commensurate reduction in disability. London has moved from a poorly performing system to one which is now not just the best stroke system in the UK, but is comparable to the best in the world. Dame Ruth Carnell, the chief executive of SHA London, has many things to be proud of but, in my view, none more than driving the reconfiguration of the stroke services across London.

I need to declare an interest when advising the House that Barnet and Chase Farm Hospital’s acute stroke unit, based on Spruce Ward at Barnet Hospital, is the first unit in London to be accredited as meeting all the standards set by the London cardiac and stroke networks.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, drew our attention to the CQC report, which reminds us of the need to ensure an equal focus is given to the development of stroke services outside hospital, and I support that. As ever, the rehabilitation end of the pathway is getting less attention than the acute, but it is important that stroke care is given uniformly, and I ask the Minister to take on board that inequality. Is the London model of hyper and acute stroke services one that the Government are minded to replicate and encourage across England and Wales?

All those who suffer this awful and possibly life-changing illness deserve the very best acute services. As the CQC says, the further extension of this superb treatment and care in supporting their lives is essential.

Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend is right to remind the House of the repeated reforms of the health service made under the previous Administration. I do not have a figure for how much they cumulatively cost the taxpayer, but it was clearly a great deal and I recall that one of the reforms took place over the course of the summer without any reporting to Parliament at all. The contrast between those reforms and this one is marked. We are doing this to get better care for patients. The previous Government were really only doing it to rearrange the deckchairs.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

Does the noble Earl agree that, contrary to my noble friend’s comments, there is a real regret in the health service that our excellence awards—as you know my trust in Chase Farm has received one—have been done away with by the Government with the CQC. I do not know what the Guardian article said and I do not know what it means by “credit”, but getting credit for good services and proper care is something that everyone in the health service would welcome. The focus for us in the health service is indeed to join social care and healthcare. Can any emphasis that can be given by the noble Earl or the Department of Health come as quickly as possible please?

[Earl Howe]

The noble Baroness was absolutely right in what she said in the last part of her question. I apologise to the House if I misunderstood the previous question about credit ratings, which I took to mean something to do with finance rather than gold stars, which I think the noble Baroness was talking about. I will try to clarify that in a letter.

Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Owen]

My Lords, I had not expected to speak but I thought that the case put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, was extremely convincing, particularly this issue that age is not an illness but a reality, and above all a numerical reality.

Listening to the arguments, I would put just one other thought. Commissioners can sometimes be listened to and effective in government. This largely depends on the structure of government, and in particular probably either the personality of the Prime Minister or the person who is leading on health. We used to have Health and Social Security under one Secretary of State, which the noble Lord will remember very well, since he was Barbara Castle’s private secretary. He may remember too that a decision was taken in 1974 to make a Minister for the Disabled. It was scoffed at by many people within government, but there is very little doubt, looking back at the record of having successive junior Ministers responsible for disablement, that there has been a formidable achievement both in legislative activity and in activity across the board. The former Prime Minister, John Major, was at one time a junior Minister for disablement, and in fact in many ways he won his political spurs in that position.

It is a constant reminder to the Cabinet sub-committees that deal with issues like this that there is a voice there that speaks up and represents it and that is close to the source of power and decision-making. A commissioner often does not have either that access or that power. There is very little doubt that we hear and see all these problems of the aged, or that these problems are increasing. Incidentally, I think that the amendment is well worth while on its merits in relation to a National Health Service commission, but that is, as everybody has admitted, only one, relatively small issue.

There is a much deeper political issue which the present politicians are not able to grapple with. If we look at the response to the old people’s heating allowance, there is a growing feeling among a substantial number of people who do not need this money that, if we are going to be serious about grappling with the problem of the aged, we have to be serious about the whole question of the now very considerable cumulative sum that is pushed to elderly people purely and simply because of their age. I enjoy my free travel pass greatly and am wholly in favour of it, but I do not need it. In fact, I ought to be walking more frequently rather than taking the Underground or the bus. I think that we need to have a fresh look at this. The initiative on these issues will probably come from the body politic. It would be much easier to persuade people that the time has come to be more selective on some of these issues if it were ensured that the money saved was earmarked, for a while, specifically for projects for the elderly.

I would not want to endorse the proposition of a commissioner at this stage. I would be more attracted to the idea of a junior Minister for the elderly who is in government and can attend the housing, welfare, health, social care and all the other Cabinet sub-committees where the really crucial decisions are taken in terms of legislation and, often, finance.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, I, too, support Amendment 327ZB, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and her earlier amendment. However, I want to make this point. I would not want the people at the sharp end—the nurses and healthcare assistants dealing with patients—to feel that this in some way exonerates them from taking the care that they should. We need to be sure that Amendment 327ZB, which describes the activities that the commissioner for older people should cover, is not an escape route for anybody who is face to face with patients, suggesting that they do not need to take responsibility. I hope that the amendment reinforces this point, but we need to be sure that this is not an opportunity for these people to claim that there is someone else who will look after their patients.

[Baroness Wheeler]

My Lords, I am pleased to speak in support of Amendment 150B from my noble friend Lady Bakewell, requiring the annual report of the NHS Commissioning Board to include an assessment of how effectively it meets the needs of the older population. We know that nearly two-thirds of NHS patients receiving consultant-led care and 60 per cent of people admitted to hospital are aged 65 and over, so it is highly appropriate that this requirement be added in the Bill to the specific items that the board must report on to Parliament and the Secretary of State.

Under the umbrella of this amendment on the needs of older people, I would like reassurances from the Government on how they intend to improve commissioning for essential community and prevention services for older people. It is widely recognised that these are currently undercommissioned, specifically falls prevention, audiology and continence. In terms of community services, I stress the inclusion of older people in residential care. Age UK research shows that nearly 400,000 people living in care homes currently face real difficulty in accessing GP and primary care services.

We know that undercommissioning of community and prevention services is widespread and that the healthcare system needs to be much more effective in commissioning primary health and preventive services. For example, Age UK estimates that falls prevention services could save the NHS £2.3 billion per year in preventing hip fractures alone. Falls represent the most frequent and serious type of accident in the over-65s and are a serious cause of morbidity and mortality. A recent national clinical audit to investigate the organisation of services for patients who have fallen and fractured their hip, wrist, arm, pelvis or spine showed how variable commissioning of falls services is, rarely providing a co-ordinated falls and fractures strategy. Few GPs assess the risk of falling among older patients, and arrangements in hospitals for case finding and secondary prevention are inadequate. Half of all patients suffering a hip fracture never regain their former level of function and mobility. How is this situation to be addressed in future commissioning arrangements?

On hearing, the estimates are that up to 6 million people in the UK would benefit from a hearing aid but that only 2 million have one. Waiting times for hearing aids continue to be a major problem. In some areas people can wait up to one to two years between their GP referral and having their first hearing aid fitted or for a digital upgrade of their hearing aid. Audiology is excluded from the general 18-week NHS waiting time target. How will the current shortcomings in commissioning for audiology services be addressed?

Finally, effective and dignified continence care for older people is an essential service, particularly for those whose long-term conditions, such as cancer, stroke, spinal cord injury, spina bifida, Parkinson’s and other neurological conditions, require continence management to be integrated into their care and treatment pathways. Commissioning for managing these conditions in the home, in residential care and in hospitals, and for general continence services, requires specialist knowledge and understanding of the different needs of continence care in primary and secondary care settings. The system is so often geared towards containment through pads and catheters rather than assessments or treatments of incontinence, or recognition, for example, that patients in hospital using catheters or other products over a short term will need reassessment and probably different products and support to cope with day-to-day life at home or in residential care. As a trustee of our local carers’ support organisation in Elmbridge, I know that effective support for carers who are managing a person’s continence issues can often make the difference between whether that person can be supported and cared for at home or has to go into residential care. Is the Minister confident that clinical commissioning consortia will have the expertise and the will to prioritise much-needed improvements in effective continence care?

My noble friend Lady Bakewell’s separate amendment calls for a commissioner for older people, and I hope the Minister will take this away and give the proposal serious consideration. In particular, we need to see what we can learn from similar posts in Wales and Northern Ireland, and the observations of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, are very helpful on this. The intention behind the proposal is to provide a cross-government overview and strategy on the needs of older people. It is why my own party has appointed a shadow Minister for care of older people. We also know that making progress on improving NHS care and treatment of older people, addressing the future funding of social care through Dilnot and other key measures all require champions and leadership at the highest level of government, and I look forward to the Minister’s—we hope sympathetic—response.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Greaves]

I assume so, but I have no personal knowledge of the processes that are leading to these outcomes. All I hear about—from talking to people who are professionals and politicians involved in these systems and through the normal bush telegraph—is the outcome. The outcome is that there is almost certainly going to be a CCG 450,000 bigger, as I understand it, than any of the doctors involved would really like, and there have to be far fewer doctors involved from each of the districts. In my own district, it was going to be a Pendle-wide organisation where all the doctors involved would be known to a lot of people in Pendle, but now there will be just a small number from Pendle and some from Rossendale and some from far-flung parts of the Ribble valley. Meanwhile in west Lancashire, along the Fylde coast, where there is a string of small holiday towns with Blackpool in the middle and then a large area of countryside, are the two districts of Fylde and Wyre while Blackpool itself, the main town of the Fylde coast, is a unitary authority. What we understand is going to happen there—I have no direct evidence of this, it has come through the bush telegraph—is a CCG of Fylde and Wyre, a relatively smaller one, with Blackpool on its own. Of course all the hospital services and everything else are mainly in Blackpool. There does not seem to be any logic about what is going on, even though it is being defined by local authority boundaries.

I ask the Government to provide some clarity over what is happening in two ways. First it would be very helpful to have clarity on what is actually happening in each area, and for this whole process to be taking place in a much more public way. But it is not. It is all taking place out of the public gaze, and unless there are local journalists who are particularly interested in it and try to research it, nobody has the slightest idea what is going on, whether or not it is being decided locally.

More importantly, I accept what the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, says, but I think that we need an understanding of the sort of pattern which is going to result from this Bill once it is enacted and the CCGs are set up. We want a clarity of vision from the Government. What sort of number are they talking about? What range of size will be thought to be permissible? If they are saying that it could stretch from areas of 15,000 right up to a major city of half a million or so, and that sort of thing will be left to some sort of diffuse local decision-making, then that is okay, but we need to understand that. If, on the other hand the Government are saying that a lot of the groups that have been looking at this are far too small and they have to be much larger, then they are really moving towards what I might call the Lord Warner position, and again we need to understand that. We have a right to know what the outcomes of this legislation are likely to be before we allow it to go forward.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, has made a very strong argument for what might happen in her part of the world. However for London it is very different, and I want to remind noble Lords that this is about health and social care, and relate what happened in my area.

My trust is part of north central London and that cluster is now going to be merged with north east London. The cluster has been a great improvement on the separate PCTs, not just because of the way they do things, but in the whole vision they have of the health economy. One of the things that we suffered from in Barnet and Chase Farm and North Middlesex was that we were all separate, independently operating providers. We just took notice of what we were providing and what was happening around us. The BEH—Barnet, Enfield and Haringey strategy—made us look beyond that at the whole health economy. The evidence is that we have been failing in not providing social care or community care because each individual provider was looking at what was happening for them and its importance to them.

I can only share the experience that is happening in London. My view is, and our experience as a trust is, that the bigger the cluster has been and the bigger the cluster will become, the more opportunity there is to ensure that the whole health economy of the people that we serve is going to be taken into account, rather than that minuscule Barnet PCT, Enfield PCT or Haringey PCT. I know that they are much closer than Lancashire, and I come from Lancashire, so I recognise some of those areas. People are questioning what is happening in London, and it is very different. The smaller the groups, the worse it is, in my experience, because we are not addressing the whole economy.

I believe, as the noble Lord, Lord Warner, has said, that we need a much broader and wider experience in the sense of the numbers that we might have. I do not know how big is big or how good is big. What I do know is the difference that it has made, in my experience, across London, that the bigger we have got in the sense of the clusters, the better the service has been and the more able we have been to take our eye away from just acute providers to looking at what is going on in the community. We have failed to do that, and all the debates that we have been hearing in the House during the passage of the Bill have identified how much we have been failing. Most of the social care issues that we have discussed are about how we failed. In my view, as a chair of an acute trust, it is about us being focused on patients coming in to hospital rather than patients being able to have their provision elsewhere. From my experience in London, we need less of them, so that we get a complete health economy view.

[Lord Greaves]

What the noble Baroness, Lady Wall, says is very interesting. Does she understand what the future pattern of CCGs in that area is going to be in relation to the borough PCTs and the clusters that she is talking about?

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

In my experience, the PCTs, in a sense, do not exist any more, in my part of London; I am not sure about elsewhere. Contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord Newton, suggested, it has not happened in London. All the PCTs have not been absorbed into the cluster. The chair of each of the PCTs that were in place before the cluster and the growth of the cluster has been seconded as chair of their particular PCT. For me, the important thing is who is making the decisions about the commissioning and what view they have. What is the panorama that they are looking at, rather than the closeness of the individual boundaries? Certainly from the PCTs in London, the clusters are taking over the way that is going more and more; and their relationship with the GP commissioners is much closer than it ever was in separate PCTs, and that has been part of the issue.

[Lord Greaves]

I am really impressed by the enthusiasm shown by the noble Baroness. I understand exactly what she said. The way in which the clusters have been put together is exactly the same, as I understand it, as in Lancashire. What I am trying to get her to tell us, if she knows, is how many CCGs there will be in the area of her cluster once the clusters have disappeared.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

I cannot answer for the whole of London. I really do not know. What I do know is that the more the clusters emerge, obviously the more those PCTs will be absorbed into them. My noble friend will be much more able to give you more detail about that.

What is happening in real life in north central London is that the PCTs are being absorbed into the cluster. Contrary to the experience of the noble Lord, Lord Newton, the clusters have not just taken over the whole PCTs, including staff and everything else; they have not. In fact, the chief executive of the cluster in north central London did not come from north London at all. So that is very different, I think, from some of the experiences that other people have. However, I cannot give you the view of the whole of London because I really do not have that knowledge.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, perhaps I could intervene to say that I echo everything that my noble friend said about the work of the clusters. They are covering, in my case, some 1.3 million and clearly are trying to get to grips with the strategic leadership that is required on the whole issue of reconfiguration of bed numbers and all the things that have been put off for so long. My understanding is that they go on as local field offices of the NHS Commissioning Board. That is the whole point. The question that then comes back, and where I am completely puzzled, is where on earth is GP commissioning in this? It is abundantly clear that the clinical commissioning groups are going to have very little influence. When you come to the issue of the individual GP, which was what this was all about, it is very hard to see what on earth they will be doing in terms of commissioning.

Funding of Care and Support

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, I, too, congratulate my noble friend Lady Pitkeathley on achieving this opportunity for us to debate a subject that is growing more and more important. There is no doubt that Dilnot is a good thing but I suggest that it is not the complete solution to all the problems faced in the delivery of social care. The problem is a major issue for us all and, I suggest, the responsibility of us all, certainly those of us involved in commissioning and delivering services to people who need this care and are entitled to it.

Although I have suggested that the issues are major, I also think that they can be described simply. There are ever increasing demands on social care budgets as the population ages. A little like the noble Lord, Lord Low, I feel that I am repeating everything that everybody has said, but it is more and more difficult for each speaker not to do so in putting over the context and importance of this debate. Councils face a much tougher funding settlement than the NHS, councils’ eligibility criteria and funding levels vary and the public are confused about charges.

All of the above can lead to an imbalance and dysfunction between the health and social care systems, which need—or ought—to operate seamlessly if patients are to receive joined-up care and travel efficiently and safely from the health to the social care system. Dilnot tackles this in various ways, including by proposing standard eligibility criteria and the transferability of assessments between different local authorities. A number of noble Lords have referred to this, and the evidence is very clear that that can cause a great deal of distress for people.

Dilnot also talks about capping an individual's liability for charges. Again, other noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Lipsey, have spoken in much more detail on the cost of that. My understanding is that this would require between £1.3 billion and £2.2 billion of central government funding, so that those individuals do not lose their home if, for example, they need continuing care. The report suggests that,

“the Government should review the scope for improving the integration of adult social care”,

and do so with other services involved,

“in the wider care and support system”.

Can the noble Earl please share with us his views on this and how he thinks that the Government, working together with all parties, can achieve this? The report continues:

“In particular, we believe it is important that there is improved integration of health and social care in order to deliver better outcomes for individuals and value for money from the state”.

I shall raise some points in this context. First, this is important because it will stop councils putting in place higher eligibility criteria than their neighbours and ensure a consistent standard of approach across the country. Transfer of assessments is an efficiency gain and will reduce the number of repeat assessments, as patients move to different authorities. My understanding from talking to people is that it would also remove much of the anxiety that people have in repeatedly having to go through those.

Secondly—this is also important, I suggest—it benefits individuals and families rather than the social care system. Although Dilnot says more funding is required for social care, simply replacing co-payments by individuals with government funding does not by itself, in my view, bring additional resources.

My third point, which is important for trusts such as mine in Barnet and Chase Farm, is that we need to work as an integrated health and social care system. That is something I have believed for the past five years as chair of that trust. I have urged it to happen and we still do not get there. If we do not do this, we will end up with people lying in expensive hospital beds who do not want or need to be there and who, through no fault of their own, prevent others being able to receive the treatment that they require, perhaps in that bed.

Integrated health and social care delivery does not necessarily mean single organisations providing health and social care. It can be achieved through joint commissioning, joint planning and, dare I suggest, pooled budgets. I would guess that suggestion is too radical for some people, but I believe it is true. That has been the aim of many Governments, and people have made many suggestions. The previous Government had this aim and worked hard to achieve much of it—other noble Lords have referred to many of our achievements in this area—but, because the health system, and I particularly include PCTs in that, have never worked closely enough with local authorities, we allowed the gap to remain into which many vulnerable and needy people fall. They are still falling into it now, and that is worsening.

I suggest that there are some gaps in Andrew Dilnot’s recommendations, particularly regarding where the extra funding is going to come from—which is a big question—and whether even what he recommends goes far enough. The story is not complete, and some of the issues still remain. However, as others have said, this is the most sensible set of proposals that we have seen for some time. They must be supported and worked on by all involved to ensure as seamless an approach to health and social care delivery as we possibly can for very often the most vulnerable of people whom we are dealing with. We must do this with urgency.

Health: Flu Vaccine Research

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, we are very clear that the Health Protection Agency performs a major public service and we have no intention of disrupting the work that it does, least of all by interfering with its research. As the noble Lord knows, the proposals are to shift the Health Protection Agency into the new, larger government agency, Public Health England. The World Health Organisation is actually the body that monitors the strains of flu worldwide and issues twice-yearly warnings to countries about the strains that are emerging so that countries can prepare for their forthcoming winter flu season.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree with me that—despite the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Knight, about the Lancet report, which I have read—there is still an important need for people who work in the health service to have the current vaccine? It is not taken up by everybody, despite many trusts trying to ensure that everybody does take it up. Is there a stronger message that could go out from the Government that it is really important to do this? Forcing people is perhaps too much, but certainly it is a real issue.

[Earl Howe]

The noble Baroness is quite right. The Chief Medical Officer wrote to the NHS on 25 May, citing four studies that provide strong evidence of the benefit of influenza vaccination for front-line healthcare workers. These studies show clearly that healthcare workers can transmit influenza to patients, that vaccination of healthcare workers can prevent that transmission and that vaccination of healthcare workers can lead to better health outcomes in the vulnerable patients with whom they very often deal.

Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Wednesday 9th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, this has been an important and thoughtful debate which I am sure will inform the discussions which the noble Earl is about to embark upon with colleagues across the House. I rise to speak to Amendment 38 on a much narrower point. In the spirit of that amendment I will undertake not to impose any burden on the Committee in terms of taking a disproportionate amount of time to deal with it. The amendment refers to paragraph (b) of new Section 1C, which the noble Lord, Lord Mawhinney, also referred to in what I thought was a masterly and devastating critique of Clause 4 as a whole.

The amendment would replace “unnecessary” with “disproportionate” in terms of the relief of burdens on organisations within the framework of the health service. The noble Lord is quite right to say that “unnecessary burdens” could mean anything. He might think that “disproportionate burdens” could also mean almost anything, but at least it gives a sense of direction which would be more acceptable to your Lordships. The Government as a whole are somewhat obsessed with burdens in the belief that almost any duty—whether in terms of employment law or other issues, notional concerns about health and safety or even human rights legislation—is deemed to be somehow a dreadful burden. What is a burden to one set of people may be a perfectly reasonable duty in the eyes of others. In this particularly sensitive context of a key public service affecting everybody in the country as a patient or potential patient, it seems necessary to err on the side of caution when setting out a stall which could lead to great difficulty in any sensible degree of regulation. Of course one can overprescribe regulation. One can also underprescribe it. As it stands the clause appears to err very much in the direction of the latter. I hope therefore that the Government will look again at the drafting of the clause and that some move can be made in the direction set out in Amendment 38 in my name and in that of the noble Lord, Lord Rooker.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

My Lords, I had not intended to participate in the debate because I did not arrive until it had started, but I have been here a long time now and want to share with people how it feels on the ground. What the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, said is absolutely true. I do not envy the noble Earl because I think that the analysis that the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, gave is exactly how it feels. There is that dilemma. The noble Baroness congratulated us on now having a decision from the Secretary of State. We do, but the decision is bound up in another clause, which brings about another kind of action that we must take. It has not removed anything; it has just given us another dilemma and delay in what we must do.

I say to the noble Lord, Lord Mawhinney, that I only wish that everybody in his position did what he did. Though I have five years of experience, I am not medically qualified; I am just somebody who cares about the people that I have responsibility for as the chair. My experience from those years was often of political interference. I ask noble Lords to forgive me for being emotive about this, but it is absolutely true. We had consultation for many years, authorised by the independent review body. The Secretary of State at the time, Alan Johnson, said, “Whatever the review body says, we will go with it”. That was perfect. Then we had a hold-up and a change of government. The new Secretary of State, Andrew Lansley, then came to our trust and said, “This isn’t going to happen. We want people on the ground to be able to say, ‘Yes, if I want this service, I can have it here, and, yes, if I want my baby here, I can have the baby here’”. Both those services were questionable in terms of their clinical reliability. They were not unsafe, because we would not be doing it otherwise, but certainly questionable. And so we started all over again.

A year later, we have gone through not a consultation but the four tests, where the clinical members of the local authority team went through the same process as was involved in the previous consultation—is it clinically safe or is it not? It took a year or so for the Secretary of State to come back with another response to that. That was another stall until, just a matter of weeks ago, we received a letter from the Secretary of State addressed to the local authority—because it had put the case to him—which said, “Yes, I think that the BEH strategy should go ahead, but, actually, I think that you should consider other things as well”. Those things cut right through the BEH strategy.

Local MPs are very open about the fact that they have interceded and expressed their views. They are very proud to say, “I’ve spoken to Andrew about this and I’m not going to have that”. This goes on all the time—I am not sure that this is inappropriate language to use in this House I ask your Lordships to forgive me if I am saying things that I should not; I am just trying to tell noble Lords what it feels like as somebody who is working in the health service on behalf of patients. That is how it feels. I do not know whether political interference by the Secretary of State, as I see it, can be removed by having the national Commissioning Board make the decisions, because my view would be that MPs will always go to whoever can make an intervention in Parliament. That goes for MPs from all parties; it is not about the present Government.

I do not envy the noble Earl in the decisions that he has to make about this, but the view of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, is very much attuned to what I see in reality. There is a dilemma; there is that interference. But, on the other hand, there are major decisions that have to be made that can be made only by the Secretary of State in the sense of his or her national perspective. I have no words of wisdom, but I have a lot of feelings. Please can we get this right?

[Baroness Thornton]

My Lords, I have added my name to those opposing Clause 4. We have had a very good debate, to which my noble friends Lord Darzi and Lady Wall have brought an element of reality. However, their remarks do not take us from the point of wondering whether this is the right clause in terms of autonomy. They have both succeeded in pointing to the problem that exists, and I am not sure that the Bill solves it.

Autonomy, from the ancient Greek, means,

“one who gives oneself their own law … In medicine, respect for the autonomy of patients is an important goal … though it can conflict with a competing ethical principle, namely beneficence”.

It might be thought that a health and social care Bill would reflect the second part of the above definition—culled, I have to say, from Wikipedia—given the concern for the interests and dignity of patients. However, such is not the case. Clause 4 seeks to insert a new section into the National Health Service Act 2006 under the rubric: “The Secretary of State’s duty as to promoting autonomy”. The clause requires the Secretary of State when exercising functions in relation to the health service, so far they are consistent with the interests of the health service—not, it may be noted, in the interests of patients—to act with a view to securing certain things that the clause then goes on to list.

I had a discussion about this clause with the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, yesterday or the day before. I say to her that the fact that we both seem to have completely different views of what this clause seeks to do actually tells us something about it and its drafting. We totally disagree about what we think this clause seeks to achieve. That alone should make us think that perhaps we need to go back to look at this clause.

Clause 4 places upon the Secretary of State a duty to promote autonomy, as we have said. We feel that this clause is part of the general shift of the Bill to denude the responsibilities of the Secretary of State, because—viewed alongside of the removal of the Secretary of State’s current powers under Section 8 of the 2006 Act to give directions to PCTs and SHAs—it significantly dilutes the Secretary of State’s powers to influence the provision of health services. Independent legal advice from Stephen Cragg QC, for example, commented on the consequences of Clause 4:

“If the Secretary of State attempts to use his or her powers to impose requirements on commissioning consortia, for example, then there could well be a judicial review challenge from a consortium which opposed the requirements on the basis that they infringed the principle of autonomy in the new Section 1C and could not be justified as necessary or essential. This approach replaces the, more or less, unfettered power that the Secretary of State has to make directions currently to be found in Section 8 of the NHS Act 2006 with a duty not to interfere unless essential to do so”.

The emphasis on autonomy links to the change in the role of the Secretary of State, as was explained wonderfully and adequately by the noble Lord, Lord Marks.

Since the founding of the NHS, the Secretary of State has always had powers of direction and intervention over NHS bodies, which enabled him or her to control the system. While some providers such as foundation trusts could be given earned autonomy—as was referred to by other noble Lords—the Secretary of State retained control through commissioning and the nature of contracts with foundation trusts.

This is a very important clause, and nothing that has been said in this debate makes me think that I was wrong to put my name on behalf of these Benches to the Question relating to clause standing part of the Bill. I appreciate that we will be having a broad discussion of these matters along with Clauses 10 and 1 but, unless the Minister has something very significant to say about how he sees this clause evolving, I absolutely have to agree with the noble Lord, Lord Marks, that this can come out of the Bill because of all the other powers that remain in it, which we will look at in due course.

Finally, I thank the Minister for his letter to me, which was circulated around the House. I thank him and his staff and the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, and her colleagues for the fact that we are finding a way forward to having a discussion which I hope and trust will bear fruit.

Health: Healthcare Assistants

Baroness Wall of New Barnet Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2011 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any plans to regulate healthcare assistants by establishing minimum standards and a code of conduct to ensure the protection of patients.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, there are provisions in the Health and Social Care Bill to enable the Council for Healthcare Regulatory Excellence to establish a process for accrediting voluntary registers for healthcare workers. Assured voluntary registration for healthcare assistants would build on existing safeguards such as the Care Quality Commission’s registration requirements and the vetting and barring scheme, and would include setting national standards for training, conduct and competence for those on the register.

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet]

I thank the noble Earl for his response, but is he aware of the worry and concern he has caused in his comments in the Times this morning? At my hospital, the director of nursing is very concerned that there are many reasons why nurses are reported to the statutory body and some of that can just be that they are not caring properly. The noble Earl’s remarks do not take that into account. Will he also accept, in a positive way, that many healthcare assistants would like to be regulated so that they can assure their patients and themselves that the skills they have and the service they are providing are of the very best?

[Earl Howe]

I agree with the latter part of the noble Baroness’s question in so far as I am quite sure that many healthcare assistants would like to be recognised for their skills. The question is whether statutory regulation or voluntary registration is the best and most proportionate route to achieve that. As regards the first part of her question, I regret the slant that the Times took on my remarks, because if a nurse has been struck off because they are considered to pose a risk to patients, then they must be referred to the Independent Safeguarding Authority, which would have the power to bar them. On the other hand, if a nurse is struck off for, say, misprescribing drugs to patients but is still capable of performing care tasks such as washing and bathing, they could still work as a healthcare assistant under appropriate supervision—depending on the circumstances. So there is no blanket prescription in this area; one has to look at the competencies of the individual and whether they are safe to work with adults.