Infrastructure Planning (Radioactive Waste Geological Disposal Facilities) Order 2015

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Grand Committee

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, as with all these things, we are talking about thousands of years. I am sure that as technologies evolve, those who have to take decisions thousands of years from now—it will not be me—will look at the decisions that we are taking now and consider whether our planning measures are as robust as they can be. Of course, new technologies and techniques will be developed that will change the sector. The nuclear industry itself will evolve, as will other technologies that will provide energy. However, we need to ensure that the decisions that we are taking now are being taken on the basis that we need a long-term solution to high-radioactivity waste, which needs to be put away safely so that it is secure and poses little danger to us all.

My noble friend Lady Miller asked about the Aarhus convention. The Planning Act 2008 provides for extensive levels of community engagement and public consultation but it also requires environmental assessments to be carried out at various stages of the planning process. Therefore, the Government believe that the process is compatible with the requirements of the convention and with associated European Union legislation.

My noble friend Lord Avebury and the noble Lord, Lord Judd, asked whether geological screening was being carried out. Radioactive Waste Management Ltd has begun the work, including engaging with interested stakeholders. It will produce draft screening guidance for public consultation. This, and the final screening results, will be reviewed by an independent group formed by the Geological Society of London. As stated in the 2014 White Paper, that will be carried out over the next two years.

I hope that I have managed to answer most of the questions. However, coming back to what we are discussing today, the Committee is simply being asked to consider the order, not to approve it. The Motion to approve will be tabled in the Chamber and noble Lords can oppose it then if they are strongly opposed to it. However, I suggest that if we are to make progress in finding a long-term solution to this significant national programme, we need to ensure that we provide the public with facts and not just bear in on myths that have been peddled over many years.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, pointed out, this debate needs to be properly informed. I would be happy—I am sure that the noble Baroness will welcome this—to widen that engagement and make the debate much more informed, so that people understand what we are trying to develop here.

[Lord Avebury]

I hope that there is nothing in the order that precludes the decision being made including whatever Scotland decides it needs in the way of long-term facilities for the disposal of high-level nuclear waste. As the noble Baroness was asked earlier, surely we are not going to have GDSs in all the jurisdictions of the United Kingdom. I want an assurance that there is a facility within the ambit of the order for the Scots to come along to talk to us about what they are doing about long-term disposal, so that we do not have to have two separate facilities.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, having obviously not satisfied noble Lords, if I undertake to write to them, that might be a better way forward.

Climate Change: UN Conference

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Wednesday 7th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Avebury (LD)]

My Lords, has my noble friend looked at the study by Oxford University’s department of engineering which showed that the development of tidal power in the Pentland Firth could supply 42% of Scotland’s electricity? Will she therefore encourage the development of these resources and promote them in other parts of the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I know that we have steered slightly away from the Question on the Order Paper, but I suggest to the noble Lord that this Government are looking at all types of energy to ensure that we have a diverse mix of energy so that we are not dependent on having to bring energy from abroad but can supply our own energy at a cost-effective rate to the British public.

Nuclear Management Partners

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Thursday 20th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right to raise those points. However, I remind noble Lords that for a very long time there has been little certainty for the nuclear sector. At least this Government have taken that certainty forward.

[Lord Avebury (LD)]

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the NDA can sack Nuclear Management Partners at any time it chooses during the five years and that the NDA has to maintain the capability in taking over from NMP in managing contracts?

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend is absolutely right. NMP can of course be sacked. We are looking at making sure that what is being delivered is performance-related. If no good, reasonable progress is made, then we will have to look at other options.

Nuclear Power: Procurement

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Monday 11th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Baroness is right about the skills agenda. We have created the Nuclear Energy Skills Alliance, which brings together all the key skills bodies related to nuclear, to collaborate and co-ordinate all the skills development in the sector. However, she is absolutely right—there is plenty to do. We are pleased that this sector is progressing rather than standing still.

[Lord Avebury (LD)]

My Lords, first, will my noble friend place copies in the Library of the memorandum of understanding signed by GE Hitachi with Babcock and Rolls-Royce, which allows them to participate in the manufacturing of components for the replacement of Oldbury and Wylfa power stations? Secondly, what are the prospects of British industry becoming involved in the two proposals that have been submitted by GE Hitachi and Candu Energy respectively for the use of the plutonium stockpile to generate electricity at Sellafield in Cumbria?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s first question, I will be happy to put into the Library the information that we have at hand. However, the memorandum of understanding is between two private companies, so I will go back to see if they will be happy to have something put in the Library. On my noble friend’s second question, while MOX remains the Government’s preferred option, we are in active talks with a number of providers. I reassure my noble friend that the conversations are ongoing, but we still have a preferred option.

Energy: Nuclear New Build Programme

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Thursday 7th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important point. I have taken the decision to reflect on why the process did not work as well as it should have done. I will be in communication with the councils again to see where we have learnt lessons and where we might have done a little better in our engagement with the broader public and local businesses. The process is the right one. It is a government policy and will remain one. I just need time to reflect on how to make the process better.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, reverting to the question of Centrica’s withdrawal, how does this affect the negotiations on the replacement contract at Hinkley Point? Is there any possibility of opening up competition on that site, considering that the contractor is said to be offering a strike price of £100 per megawatt hour for the electricity that will be produced, saddling future electricity consumers with a large additional burden?

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend obviously has information on the strike price that I do not have because as yet no commitment on strike price has been made. We are still talking and we want to be able to reach a commercial term that is fair, affordable and value for money for all.

Nuclear Research and Development

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Monday 4th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Avebury]

When do the Government expect to see the report from the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority on the disposal of the stocks of 100 tonnes of plutonium? Are the Government moving away from their formerly preferred solution of using this plutonium to create MOX fuel, bearing in mind that there are no customers on the horizon for that form of nuclear energy?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I am aware of my noble friend’s interest in other forms of disposal of civil plutonium. I can reassure him that, while we still prefer MOX, we are considering proposals from GE Hitachi and Candu to determine whether their approaches need further consideration as credible alternatives for managing the UK stockpile of plutonium.

Energy: Nuclear Power

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Thursday 29th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

I go back to what I said to my noble friend Lord Jenkin: these things take time and are under negotiation. I am sure that my noble friend will appreciate that the outcome needs to satisfy many parties.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, when do the Government expect to receive the report of the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority on the future management or reuse of the 100 tonnes of plutonium that are now held at Sellafield at an estimated cost up to 2030 of £16.9 billion? What consideration are the Government giving to the offer by GE Hitachi to build two PRISM reactors that would reuse this material and be provided at no cost to the Government? That would generate 630 megawatts of electricity that would cost the taxpayer nothing.

[Baroness Verma]

I know that my noble friend is very involved with this issue. While we have a preferred option, we are always open to other forms of disposal. We will keep the noble Lord informed of what we are doing, if he is interested to know.

Nuclear Waste

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Monday 29th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, we are very serious about underground disposal. We are going to ensure that all the questions that are being asked are answered. We are working very closely with local authorities in Cumbria. We welcome other local authorities coming forward, but making sure that we safely secure radioactive waste is a serious question. That is the mission of this Government.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, I think my noble friend is aware that originally it was stated that the cost of storing plutonium was commercially confidential, but the Secretary of State wrote to me this morning saying that the cost is £1.9 billion, presumably only as far as 2020. When my noble friend receives the report from the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority on how to dispose of the plutonium, including the cost not only of storage but of credible alternative options, will that report be laid before Parliament and before the Select Committee on Science and Technology so that Parliament can have an opportunity of expressing its opinion before the Government make the final decision?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State would have given my noble friend a date of 2120, not 2020. The cost of storing plutonium is commercially confidential, but my department has assessed the cost of long-term storage alongside other options, such as MOX. Based on a discounted lifetime of 100 years, the cost is around £8 billion. My noble friend asked about the report being laid before Parliament. Once we have received the report, I am sure we will consider that.

Energy: Hydropower

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Wednesday 10th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Avebury]

What is the current state of play on the Severn barrage and what is the cost of electricity generated by it estimated to be?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, at the moment I cannot give the noble Lord the detail that he requires. Therefore, if he will allow me to write to him on the Severn barrage, I would be most grateful.

Rainforests

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Lord talks about a specific case, which I will not refer to. In a more general response, I would like to say to noble Lords that we are ensuring that we respond proactively to the difficulties we are all facing with this issue. The multinational companies that deal in illegal logging will find that the penalties for this will be severe. That is the agreement we are trying to get from all our partner countries so that it is not just a small group of countries that are willing to apply severe penalties, but that the penalties will be severe at every border that illegal timber comes through. It is about greater partnership but it is also about recognising that we are only a small cog when it comes to dealing with these issues and it is really for the whole world to respond collectively.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, what does my noble friend think about the UN-REDD initiative mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Eden? Is it cost-effective, and how much does the United Kingdom contribute to it annually?

[Baroness Verma]

I cannot give my noble friend a figure on the contribution at the moment; I will write to him on it. However, I repeat that we may think that some systems are weak, but we have to strengthen those systems—review and revise them—and make countries where deforestation and illegal logging take place responsible for responding positively.

Overseas Aid: Famine Relief

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Baroness is right: this was forecast. However, we in the UK are playing our part and pressing other donor countries to play theirs. We know that there is a shortfall and we are pressing other Governments to ensure that they respond. We are working very hard with agencies across the globe. Ultimately, it is about ensuring that we are putting long-term resilience plans into place, which take time to build up. At the same time, we will press for short-term responses from other Governments.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, my noble friend talked about the encouragement of other donor agencies. I am sure that she is aware that the Disasters Emergency Committee is still in discussion with the member agencies on whether the catastrophe meets its appeal criteria, although some of its member agencies such as Oxfam and Save the Children have already issued separate appeals. What can my noble friend and the Government do to encourage wider and more effective co-ordination of the voluntary agencies in responding to this and future disasters? In particular, will they encourage wider co-operation between our agencies and those of the Irish Government?

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend is right: we need to have better co-ordination. We are working closely with the noble Baroness, Lady Amos. Ultimately, this is about us showing our leadership and pressing other donor countries and organisations to join in the response to this urgent crisis.

Abyei

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Wednesday 25th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right that the people of those regions have to feel that they are part and parcel of the negotiations and that currently they feel marginalised. We urge, through President Mbeki’s AU High-Level Implementation Panel and the United Nations and UNMIS, that these issues are resolved peacefully, but we realise that it is a difficult area. We are going back to the international community time and again to ensure that the concerns that the noble Baroness and others raise are always at the table.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, will the Government take the opportunity of President Obama’s visit to discuss with him how we can best reinforce the demand made by the Security Council that the troops of north and south Sudan withdraw immediately from the town of Abyei? What has been the response of the northern Sudan Government to the Secretary-General’s call for an investigation into the attack on UN troops in Goli, the raid on a UN-escorted convoy a week ago today and the shelling of the UN compound in Abyei?

[Baroness Verma]

I am sure that my noble friend will urge both the President of the United States and our Prime Minister to ensure that Sudan is part of the talks that they will have. I am aware that United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon is also concerned. He made a strong statement yesterday urging leaders from both sides to demonstrate the political will not just to resolve the situation in Abyei but also to talk about the communities that feel marginalised and out of the discussions at the moment.

Equality Act 2010

Debate between Baroness Verma and Lord Avebury

Wednesday 22nd December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Avebury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in view of the research study by the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, which suggests that caste discrimination and harassment within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010 exists in the United Kingdom, they will bring caste within the list of protected characteristics in that Act.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, we published the National Institute for Economic and Social Research’s report on caste discrimination and harassment in Great Britain on 16 December. This is an important report that we will consider carefully before responding. We will of course consider our response in the broader context of the equality strategy, Fairness for All. This sets out a new role for government, moving beyond simply introducing more legislation to promoting equality through transparency and behaviour change.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the research shows that discrimination based on caste does occur within the areas covered by the Act, and that it would be reduced if Section 9(5) of the Act was activated? Will she invite members of the Anti Caste Discrimination Alliance for a discussion on how best to proceed in eradicating this kind of discrimination?