Developing Nations: Technical and Vocational Education

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Wednesday 21st October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

I absolutely agree with my noble friend, and I will be attending to ensure that we again participate in those important debates. My noble friend makes the poignant point that unless we have everybody involved in economic productivity, we lose the value of 50% of the world’s population.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I wholeheartedly agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, said about the Commonwealth, but I wonder what the Commonwealth is doing to ensure that LGBT people are also properly employed throughout the Commonwealth.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the noble Baroness may rest assured that my noble friend Lady Anelay and I raise these issues all the time. Like her, we very much share the belief that accessibility should be for all people and that no one should be left behind.

Energy: Prices

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Monday 9th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. This initiative is of great benefit to local communities and allows local authorities to look at how community-based renewable energy schemes can not just benefit local communities but help local consumers reduce their energy costs.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, my right honourable friend Ed Miliband is certainly leading the country in many ways and forcing many U-turns on the Government, but it would be extraordinary if the leader of the Opposition were to have such an impact on the share prices of energy companies 18 months away from a general election. That said, I note what the noble Baroness said about new measures which she believes will have a beneficial impact on local authorities. Have calculations been made about the rise in energy prices for hospitals, health centres and health in general in this country?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is being incredibly complacent if she thinks that making a statement would not have an impact on share prices across the country. Of course, it undermines investor confidence. We need to make sure that people wishing to invest in the energy infrastructure of this country are confident that we will have a stable set of measurements. That gives confidence to investors rather than deters them from coming here. The noble Baroness asked a number of questions about what we are doing to help. We have done an awful lot to help consumers get through the difficult period. Through ECO we have put in many measures to help 230,000 of our most vulnerable households. There are cold weather payments and there will be warm house discounts to help them see out cold winters. This Government are doing a lot to ensure that those who need help will receive it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, as long as we have a Conservative Government in place, I am sure that we will all benefit.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, the politics are very interesting, but the noble Baroness has been asked two questions—one about the impact of energy price rises on hospitals and the health community in this country and the second about the impact on police forces and policing. If the noble Baroness is not able to reply to these questions today, will she write with the requisite information?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I do not wish to avoid answering any questions but, given the time, I have to answer as much as I can of the questions that I am given. The Government Procurement Service purchases energy on behalf of many public sector organisations, including, I am sure, the organisations to which the noble Baroness refers. Harnessing that collective purchasing power and buying directly on the wholesale market results in lower energy costs.

Crime: Domestic Violence

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Thursday 8th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

The noble Earl has raised another serious issue and of course we will find a prevalence of mental health issues in these cases. I very much take on board what the noble Earl has said, but I would rather write to him specifically about the work that is being done because this is a broad question that needs to be answered in detail.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I accept entirely that the Government have ring-fenced some money for dealing with the problems faced by the victims of domestic violence. However, as my noble friend Lady Gould said, refuges up and down the country are either closing or are under threat of closure, including in the Forest of Dean. Can the noble Baroness tell me whether the Government expect local authorities to undertake impact assessments before refuges are closed to see what the impact will be on vulnerable women who will be left homeless or without a place to stay when they close?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I will repeat myself and say that we have difficulties with finances simply because there is no money to spare, as the noble Baroness will be aware. However, the homelessness strategy will not see people who require support and housing being left without refuge. There is a close relationship between what we are doing nationally and the work that we are making sure local authorities do through the funding that we have secured with them. Of course, local authorities will make decisions about need in their areas, and I would say to the noble Baroness that authorities have a duty to ensure that any victims of any form of violence are supported in securing refuge.

Violence against Women and Girls

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Thursday 24th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend is absolutely right. That is why we are working very hard with police forces across the country to ensure that they are made fully aware of how they need to respond, very sensitively, to issues of sexual and violent abuse.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, 76 per cent of ex-partner murders have stalking as a lead-up to the event. Does the Minister agree that actions must be taken now to stop this murder in slow motion? Would the noble Baroness further agree that, while county councils are clearly having to make cuts too deep and too fast, they absolutely should not make cuts to street lighting because of the serious implications for women and their safety?

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, very briefly, I inform the noble Baroness that we last week launched a 12-week consultation on stalking to see if it will become a specific offence. A lot is going on, but I will of course write to the noble Baroness on the other issues that she has raised.

Equality Act 2010 (Specific Duties) Regulations 2011

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, these are questions for the Minister. I am just putting my views as the spokesperson for the Opposition. I go back to what I was going to say, about transparency. The Government rightly stress the need for transparency and accountability. However, it is difficult to understand how these can be enhanced when the public and public sector employees will not be able to compare the equality performance of similar bodies because the information will not always relate to the same issues or be measured in a standard way. Access to data is crucial, but it is difficult to interpret those data if they are not given in a standard way. Therefore, it will be more difficult for public authorities and those they serve to discover and understand what good practice is. There is a possibility that there will be a new postcode lottery. The Government have failed to provide clarity with these regulations. It could well be that the burden on public bodies will increase in some way. As the Council for Disabled Children says in its excellent briefing,

“the requirements should be clear to all public bodies who are required to comply with the specific duties. This purpose is better served by making these requirements explicit in the Regulations rather than leaving public bodies open to challenge because ‘implicit’ requirements have not been made clear to them”.

I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, in relation both to freedom of religion and conscience and to burdens and bureaucracy. I must also disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, who is in many ways my noble friend. During the passage of the Equality Bill we debated these issues long and hard and they were subject, as he rightly said, to amendments. The noble Lord, Lord Waddington, was wrong when he made the arguments at that time and he is wrong now. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Lester, for pointing out the difference between the law of the land, which I believe is correct, and mischievous misinterpretations of that law, of which there are undoubtedly many. While I respect that around this Chamber we have different views, I am concerned that perhaps some of the voices opposite are those of the modern Conservative Party. I know that some on my Benches will disagree with me on that.

When we debated the Equality Bill, there was wide agreement on all Benches that the Bill—now the Act—was the right way to address discrimination and advance equality of opportunity in our tolerant British society. I believe that that is still the case. The noble Lord, Lord Waddington, says that specific regulations would be a burden on the public sector. However, I remind him that good regulations serve an important purpose. In this case it is to ensure that systematic inequalities can be challenged so that all members of our society can live and flourish without discrimination. The noble Lord dismisses the importance of equality of outcomes, whereas I suggest that outcomes and opportunity are equally important.

The noble Lord, Lord Low, is right to stress the need for the general equality duty to produce tangible and positive outcomes. I fear that the regulations have been weakened to such an extent that the outcomes will be neither tangible nor positive. In the other place, the Minister made a commitment to review the duties in two years’ time. That is very welcome, but I ask the Minister to confirm that such a review will take place and to provide further information about a timetable for it. How will the evidence be gathered? Will the review be based on progress towards the aims set out in the general duty, rather than simply on the aspects covered by the specific duties, and will it be public? I also ask the noble Baroness for a clear commitment that the specific duties will be amended if the review reveals that public bodies have not made sufficient progress in eliminating discrimination and advancing equality of opportunity.

The equality duty should be one of the most effective ways of combating institutional discrimination and putting the public sector at the forefront of efforts to secure equality. Contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, said, in this seemingly fractured society I believe that issues relating to equality and discrimination have assumed greater importance and that regulations to define the specific duties are vital to delivering the general equality duty. As I said earlier, I would be very happy to support the noble Lord, Lord Low, should he wish to vote on his amendment.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I will deal with the points raised by my noble friend Lord Waddington and the noble Lord, Lord Low, separately, but I will begin by dealing with my noble friend’s amendment. I recognise that he speaks with passion and that he has been consistent in his arguments. I stand here as somebody who may not be absolutely in tune with everything on the subject of equality, but I do know the outcomes of discrimination and inequality. I think, therefore, that what we are doing here today is helping to address those issues. While there may be Members among my noble friends behind me who think that we have gone too far, I say to them: ask the people who do not have access to those opportunities and you may get responses that are difficult to take if you have never had to undergo such discrimination yourselves.

My noble friend has made clear his concerns about the issue of religious freedom.

Open Public Services White Paper

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Monday 11th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, this process is signed up to by all government departments and it has had wide consultation. We are building on what the previous Government were doing—ensuring that there was proper reform and that public services were able to deliver the best possible service and outcome to individual users. I do not accept the noble Baroness’s premise that the White Paper is going nowhere and that it has not responded to the needs of individuals. What we are trying to do is very significant. This is about building accountability and transparency into the processes. As with social care, which is a sector I know well, personal budgets are available to some but this is about ensuring that personal budgets are available to many more. It is also about making sure that people are aware of what they are buying into, and that process takes time.

I have not read the Guardian article so I cannot comment on it. However, I will say that for us it is really important that children who come from disadvantaged backgrounds and are followed by the pupil premium will be able to get better outcomes and go on to enjoy social mobility and rise up, rather than remain stagnated as some children have become through—I am sorry to say to the noble Baroness— policies that were not delivered well under the previous Government. We need to find a way of working together to ensure that our public services deliver the best outcomes for those who need them the most. We have to agree that this will not come through sitting doing nothing. We must ensure that delivery of our public services is done in a way in which everyone has choice and power over how their services are delivered, and this White Paper goes towards that.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

Before the Minister sits down, I remind her of the very important question that I asked towards the end of my response to her Statement about the fact that it is said that the Government are willing to allow educational and health establishments to fail. That cannot happen, and I would like a guarantee from the Minister that this will not be allowed to happen.

[Baroness Verma]

I apologise for not responding to that. I have not seen any evidence that we would allow schools to fail. It would not be in the interest of children who are growing up today for us to allow failure: they have been failed for far too long. We need to ensure that every child growing up in this country today has an opportunity to achieve their best potential.

Ministerial and other Salaries Act 1975 (Amendment) Order 2011

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I declare an interest as being in receipt of a ministerial or other salary. I have been for some time and I am very grateful to the Government.

I am also very grateful to the Minister for pointing out that the previous Government also had a policy of not increasing salaries. Of course, I am attracted—I would be, wouldn’t I?—by the idea from the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, that, rather than reduce ministerial salaries, there should be a reduction in Ministers. I jest but I believe now, as I did when we were in government, that there are too many Ministers. I do not think that that should have an impact on salaries but I firmly believe that there are too many Ministers—in the other place, of course—although Ministers work phenomenally hard.

I am not sure what the noble Earl was getting at but I think that it is wrong in principle for there to be unpaid Ministers. A Minister is a Minister; they do a fantastic job and should be paid accordingly.

Of course, when everyone in the whole country is having to tighten their belts, it is right that those in receipt of ministerial salaries should do likewise. Resources are limited and we have to take our share of the pain. Although I would strenuously argue that the cuts to our public services in general are too deep and being made too fast, I do not think that that is the case in relation to ministerial salaries. The Prime Minister was correct when he acted as a sort of catalyst for this legislation.

[Baroness Verma]

Again, I start by thanking my noble friends and the noble Baroness for their broadly warm welcome for the order and for their questions about ministerial salaries. I should like to start by responding to the point made by my noble friend Lord Maclennan—whose name, I hope, I have got right this time—about it being gesture politics. The fact is that we need to show that we in government are prepared to take some of the bites that are going to affect every single citizen because of the financial difficulties that this country is in. I want to resist saying that it is gesture politics: we have a duty to show that we are willing to take some of the pain. It may not look as though it is a lot of the pain but those of us who work incredibly hard feel that it is only right that we all share in it, and the previous Government did the same.

I should also like to thank my noble friend for his kind words. Ministers in both this House and another place work very hard and often with gruelling hours on subjects that we have to get our minds around very quickly, as is the case today. This is not my normal remit—and I think that is true of the noble Baroness, too.

There are 13 unpaid Ministers in government, three in the Commons and 10 in the Lords. The former Administration had the same number of unpaid Ministers before leaving office, with nine from the Commons and four from the Lords. The Government believe that the number of Ministers should be dictated by need, and on this basis have carefully considered all the appointments that they have made. Because of the nature of the coalition Government and the challenge of delivering the programme for government, the Prime Minister did not think that it was possible to reduce significantly the number of Ministers at this time. However, the Government have reduced the number of Ministers who regularly attend meetings of the Cabinet. I hope that has answered my noble friend’s question.

Distribution of Dormant Account Money (Apportionment) Order 2011

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I, too, am grateful to the Minister for her introduction. I certainly support the order and I am glad that the money will be distributed. I recognise that now is not the time to discuss how the dormant accounts money is to be spent, nor is it the time to have a discussion about the big society bank. However, I have reservations about the big society bank because, while I believe that it will help some people and organisations, it is a very small answer to the problems that they will encounter as a result of cuts in local authority services.

The noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, asked whether the noble Baroness thought that the £60 million to £100 million that it is estimated will come from dormant bank accounts this year will be a one-off, or if such an amount of money can go into the big society bank every year. If it is a one-off, my concern about the viability of the big society bank is exacerbated because, if there is to be a bank that will really fulfil what is likely to be an important role in supporting charities and civil society, it has to be more sustainable than something that will get possibly £60 million next year—or possibly not. Who knows? That raises some concerns.

I hear what the noble Baroness says about the Barnett formula. Discussions have taken place on whether or not there are other options and, clearly, the decision has been taken and has come down in favour of the Barnett formula. It would be interesting to know what discussions have taken place, and with whom, in order to reach that decision. I am concerned about its specific impact on Wales because it is widely recognised that Wales tends to lose out as a consequence of the Barnett formula.

As I said, I am glad that the money is to be distributed and welcome the order. However, it raises profound concerns which must be addressed, if not today then in the future.

[Baroness Verma]

I thank my noble friends and the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, for their broad warm welcome for the order. I expected the order to raise questions, on some of which, I am afraid, I shall have to write to noble Lords.

My noble friends Lord Higgins and Lord Oakeshott raised concerns around the use of the Barnett formula and asked why not other formulas. It was found that the Barnett formula was the most robust way of allocating the money. The Big Lottery Fund’s way of distribution is not a government formula and therefore does not have a wider standing beyond the distribution of lottery funds. The Government recognise that concerns have been expressed about the system of devolved funding; however, their position remains that the priority is to reduce the budget deficit and that any decision to change the current system must await the stabilisation of public finances. However, we have to find an alternative and, until we do, noble Lords will have to accept that the Barnett formula has its strengths.

My noble friend Lord Higgins asked about the term “social investment wholesaler”. The big society bank will be a social investment wholesaler. It is a term used in dormant accounts legislation and is one of three areas where English dormant accounts can be spent. The other two are youth provision and financial inclusion and capability.

My noble friend Lord Clement-Jones asked about public consultation on the distribution of dormant accounts. The Government carried out a public consultation on how the English portion of the dormant accounts should be spent prior to the 2008 Act. As a result, the dormant accounts Act allows the English portion to be used for youth provision, financial inclusion and capability or a social investment wholesaler.

I was asked about the monies going into the big society bank and whether this would be a one-off. We have £60 million to £100 million that we are going to allocate. However, there is a reclaim fund and we need to see how much of that is drawn on. Of course, if money is then still left, it is only right and fair that it is put to positive and good use through the big society bank so that people and smaller organisations can draw on it. The decision will, of course, be made after the independent reclaim fund has looked at how the progress of reclaim has worked.

The questions that were asked today centred basically around confidence in ensuring that the monies reach the right people and that we are making the best use of the dormant accounts. I think there is agreement over the framework that we are using, which was passed in 2008. Since taking office, the Government have worked hard, taking the necessary steps to make sure that money from dormant accounts made available for public spending is put to good use as soon as possible. A reclaim fund has been established by Co-operative Financial Services and authorised by the FSA. As I have indicated from the outset, the estimated £60 million to £100 million from dormant accounts will be released by the fund over the first year. It is imperative that we are able to spend this money as soon as possible.

In taking the decision, the Government have considered thoroughly some of the concerns that noble Lords have raised today. I stress to the Committee that we understand that there are criticisms of the formula we are using. However, it has proved to be currently the most transparent and easily understood formula of all those that are around. I hope noble Lords will be satisfied. I know I have not been able to respond to all questions but I undertake to ensure that all noble Lords are written to. On that basis, I commend the order to the Committee.

International Widows Day

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, that follows on very neatly from the question from the Benches opposite. We remain concerned that women seem not to be present in the negotiations and at the forefront of political life, whereas they were very present during the revolution and demonstrations. DfID and FCO have committed to more than £110 million over four years to support political and economic reform across the region. Our department will be looking at how gender will be represented there.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, our widows are also international widows. This year, the War Widows’ Association of Great Britain celebrates its 40th anniversary. I suggest to the Minister that those extraordinary women, to whom we owe so much because their partners have paid the ultimate sacrifice, might wish to mark the first United Nations International Widows Day with a clear statement from the Government that they will not seek to overturn the amendment passed in this House on the Office of the Chief Coroner, a role of great importance to war widows and their bereaved families.

Charities (Pre-consolidation Amendments) Order 2011

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Wednesday 27th April 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for her explanation of the order and for the background information that she provided. She is of course correct when she says that the previous Government—my Government—made a commitment to seek a consolidation of the charities legislation subject to support from the Law Commission, which the commission has now given. I am very glad that we heeded the wise advice of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury. We look forward to discussing the consolidation Bill, although it will not be I who does that next week as I shall be otherwise engaged.

I note that the amendments made by the order are not considered to make substantive changes to the law or to introduce new policy, and I rely on the incisiveness and expertise of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, because I do not have the talent of an egg-head. I further note that in a consultation about the consolidation, there were only two responses about the draft order, so clearly not a lot of people out there have deep, if any, concerns.

I have one rather simple question. The noble Baroness mentioned the review which will take place later this year. I wonder when we can expect the results of the review and also how the Government will act on those results. I realise that the report of the review will be debated in Parliament but I wonder whether this might lead to further legislation, further simplification or what. I do not know how these things work and I should be grateful for some clarification from the Minister.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I am most grateful for the warm welcome for the order from my noble friend and the noble Baroness. This has been a very short debate but it has been very informed, and I am glad that I have an egg-head in my noble friend on my side. Although I tried very hard to follow and navigate my way through what he was saying, at times I got slightly lost and tried to refer back to the order. I am also grateful to my noble friend for giving me prior notice of the two questions which he has put. I will try my level best to respond. If I fail still to allay any of his concerns, I shall write to him and put a copy of the letter in the Library.

My noble friend asked, first, about the amendments made by paragraph 10 of the schedule, which gives effect to the recommendations of the Brooke committee of 1972-73 to rationalise statutory instrument procedure. The committee recommended that the procedure in the Statutory Instruments Act 1946, whereby a statutory instrument subject to the negative procedure had to be laid in draft before both Houses, should be avoided. The amendment removes that aspect of the statutory instrument process for orders made under Section 17 of the Charities Act 1993, which provides a mechanism for parliamentary scrutiny of a Charity Commission scheme that alters the constitution of a charity governed by statute. Such orders will still be laid before Parliament and can be prayed against.

My noble friend also asked a valid question about paragraph 24 of the schedule. It is not our intention to make a substantive change to Section 79. We shall look carefully at the point that my noble friend has raised and refer it to the drafters of the Bill. If necessary, we will confirm that the appropriate amendments will be made before the Bill goes to the Joint Committee for consideration. We will write with further details once the drafter has considered my noble friend’s question. I hope that my noble friend feels a little more satisfied by my responses.

The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, asked about the review. There is no firm timetable as yet, but the review must begin before 8 November and its report be laid before Parliament. We anticipate the review concluding some time in 2012, but it is too early to say how long it will take to take forward any recommendations.

I hope that I have answered the questions of my noble friend and the noble Baroness. It has been a very short debate, but I hope that I have been able to satisfy noble Lords. I hope that my noble friend will be in the Chamber next Thursday, or I shall feel very lonely debating the Charities Bill all on my own.

Socioeconomic Equality Duty

Debate between Baroness Verma and Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Thursday 18th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I have huge respect for the noble Baroness and feel rather saddened and disappointed at her response to the Statement. I should clarify to the House that, in this House, I am the lead spokesman on equalities and women. Therefore, I would repeat the Statement in this House. I am disappointed that the noble Baroness feels that I may not be up to the job.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

I did not say that. I have the utmost regard for the noble Baroness. She does a splendid job and I am delighted that she is the Minister responsible for women and equalities in this House. I was making quite a different point, as the record will show.

[Baroness Verma]

My Lords, I will come back to some of the points that the noble Baroness raised. First, I should say that I have understood what equality means from a very early age. I understand very much what is needed to ensure that everyone in this country has access to opportunity and equality to enable them to reach their full potential. However, the clause that we are discussing did none of that and was unenforceable. Local authorities could consider it but did not need to implement it. It comprised an exercise in bureaucracy and box-ticking and imposed an extra burden on local authorities which are already struggling to manage within the constraints of budget reductions. Therefore, I do not agree that it was a useful part of the Act. Ninety per cent of the provisions of the Equalities Act were introduced in October. The remainder, including the public sector equality duty, will be introduced in April, although we are still debating parts of the Act. However, this particular part is not helpful or useful in terms of what the noble Baroness wants to see happen. It will not aid equality of any kind but will add to bureaucracy. We are helping the most vulnerable people. It is important to make this point. The public sector equality duty will ensure that local authorities and public bodies respond to inequalities of gender, race, disability and all the other inequalities that people face, so I do not accept the argument put forward by the noble Baroness. I hope that she realises that this tiny clause is nothing more than a gesture and will only add to the burdens and bureaucracy of local authorities.