Russia

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Thursday 16th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Turner of Camden (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, for introducing the debate. It is a very important subject. I had at first feared that we would be heading for conflict with Russia—even a return to the Cold War—but there have recently been more favourable developments, with the prospect of discussions taking place between the two sides.

Ukraine is a much-divided country: the east does not want to be governed from the west by Kiev and Kiev is suspicious of Russian involvement. It has always been necessary to try to resolve these differences through negotiations. There have of course been many allegations about Russian involvement. But what about the West? What about the CIA? What about NATO, which has a number of states on the border with Russia?

The demonstrators who brought about the downfall of the previous President, who, incidentally, was elected, were not all nice, progressive democrats. Some were very dubious people, including members of the Svoboda party who were rather racist and probably nationalistic. However, these people were supported by the West—by the CIA and by statements from NATO leaders.

In my view, we must try to restore relations with the Russians. Culturally, they are close to us in all sorts of ways—in music, the arts, literature, scientific developments and, as we have been reminded by the noble Lord, Lord Owen, business. It is to our advantage to have these close links.

As for Crimea, Russia has links going back a very long way, to the days of Catherine the Great, and still has a naval base there. The people living there have had some sort of vote, the result of which was in favour of rejoining Russia. We have been told that it was not legal, which has been disputed by Russia. However, if, by any chance, the people there want to rejoin Russia, I do not see why they should be prevented from doing so if there are arrangements for the protection of minorities.

I am strongly in favour of restoring relations with Russia. I have been there on a number of occasions, not only a long time ago, during the Soviet era, but much more recently. I have great respect for the Russian people, who have suffered greatly from interventions. During the last war many millions were killed and there was the dreadful siege of St Petersburg. The transition from the Soviet era to the present capitalist one was a very difficult period for the Russian people. Before that, of course, there were the Napoleonic Wars, which gave us War and Peace. It is interesting to recall that, when he was a young man, Tolstoy served in the army, defending Crimea against interventions from Britain and France in 1854—a little remembered western intervention. There is some history here. Let us hope that the future is much better.

It is in the interests of both sides to make progress in the discussions. There has, of course, been a lot of criticism of the present President, Vladimir Putin. He appears to be popular with the Russian people at the moment, particularly following the annexation of Crimea. On the other hand, we have to come to terms with people whom we may not particularly like if we are to avoid a conflict. We need further discussion if we are to avoid the sort of problems that have arisen recently. I hope it will be possible to accept what is now on offer, which seems to be negotiations between the two sides that are currently in conflict in Ukraine. Putin seems to be willing to make some gestures in the direction of resolving the problems that exist. Of course there will be problems but they can be matters for discussion, which I hope can be reasonably arranged so that this can be brought to a close. We have far more bringing us together than separating us. I therefore hope that that is how we shall proceed to deal with the issues that have been raised in today’s debate.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Tuesday 10th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Turner of Camden (Lab)]

My Lords, it is surprising that there is so little in the gracious Speech about employment law. During the lifetime of this Government, the employment protections which many of us have fought for for years have almost disappeared. It has now become almost impossible for a dismissed worker to sue for unfair dismissal at a tribunal. The proceedings are not only very complicated but very expensive; it can cost an employee about £1,000 to get a hearing. Accidents at work continue to happen far too frequently, particularly in the construction industry, but again suing has been made more difficult for the employee or his family. The Government have made it clear what they think about employment rights with their absurd scheme whereby employees abandon all employment rights in exchange for shares in the employing company. A number of us in your Lordships’ House opposed these measures when they were proposed here, but, unfortunately, without success.

We are told that the employment situation has improved, particularly in London and the south-east, but not I think for younger people. The same goes for older people, too. I have received letters from time to time from people over 50 years of age who have been made redundant. They desperately want to work again, but receive no replies to their job applications. This is particularly true for older women, as has already been pointed out. In other parts of the country, the situation is much worse. In the Midlands and the north there are areas where once the manufacturing industry provided work for whole communities, but the factories no longer exist to do so.

Clearly, there should be area renewal plans for such areas. Perhaps the Government will tell us what they have in mind, if anything, for these areas. But even where jobs exist, as in the London area, problems exist for poorer families. I am glad that the Government have agreed that the minimum wage must be increased and enforced. There is also more pressure for the living wage, which my party supports. Living costs in London have become impossibly expensive. There is a desperate shortage of affordable housing, as we have heard from other noble Lords, and in the mean time, despite the right to buy which has assisted some people, many poorer people are confined to rented accommodation in the private sector. There is a case for some intervention here. There is a need for more social housing to be built, as a number of noble Lords have said. This has been proposed by the London mayor, but it takes time, even if what he proposes is enough. This is a crisis, and there is therefore a reason to impose restrictions on the amount that may be charged for private rentals. I know of course that the Government are anxious to reduce the amount spent on welfare, but this becomes impossible if wages are too low and rents too high. This is currently the situation in London.

I have briefly set out the situation as I see it in London and the south-east, but there is another aspect which receives far less attention than perhaps it should. There is a lot of talk nowadays about the growing inequalities in our society. Many of us deplore this and wish that we could do something about it. Encouragement is given to community and voluntary organisations, and it is right that that should be done, but the largest voluntary organisations in this country are those built by the workers themselves. I refer, of course, to the trades unions. A recent survey indicated that one reason for the growth in inequality was a decline in union power. If that is so, I deplore it. But the Government certainly either ignore unions entirely or introduce legislation to make their functioning more difficult. This is a mistake. Unions have as their main function representing their members’ best interests, but they provide a range of other benefits to individual members as well, such as legal services to individuals in a situation in which legislation through LASPO has reduced access to legal aid for a whole range of issues, including employment and welfare.

Training and education are also areas where unions have been able to help members who have missed out in this respect earlier in their careers. The TUC’s Unionlearn has been widely praised for the training it provides. Many parliamentarians owe their education to union scholarships undertaken at Ruskin College, Oxford. I benefited from that provision through my union. Unions are increasingly becoming involved in community work and simply do not deserve the demonisation that occurs too often in the media, and the Government should simply ignore it.

The noble Lord, Lord Bamford, in a very good maiden speech, referred to the successful economy and high productivity in Germany. One of the reasons for that is the involvement of the unions in consultation, an issue with which we should be concerned in this country.

As has already been indicated, the proposals on pensions are extremely complicated. I was very interested to hear what my noble friend Lord Monks had to say about this, with which I agree. Retired people want a regular, reliable income that they can count on, perhaps linked to increases in wages. I am not certain that the proposals in the Bill will provide this.

As regards welfare, there appear to be difficulties in implementing the universal credit measures. The changes are already causing concern, particularly among disabled people. Again, this is something to which we must return when the House is ready to discuss the welfare problems that we all know exist. They would certainly benefit from further discussion by your Lordships.

Syria and the Middle East

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Thursday 27th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Turner of Camden (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing this debate. It is very timely. Earlier in the week, we had the government Statement on Syria and other issues, and we have had another statement from the Minister this morning. Of course, we are all appalled at what is happening: 5,000 civilians dying every month; thousands of refugees in surrounding countries, sometimes in awful conditions; and children wounded and dying, ill and often starving. “What can we do?”, we ask. “Can this carnage be stopped?”.

The Statement made it clear that the Government are in fact doing quite a lot. Finance and aid are being provided, and other Governments are being urged to do likewise. We have undertaken to take in some Syrian refugees. The UN Security Council has unanimously passed a resolution calling for aid, opposing terrorist violence and calling for an end to the carnage. “But what more can be done?”, we ask.

What is clear, however, is that military intervention is simply not an option. The Commons decided against it and there is no indication that other countries would agree to it. I support that entirely. I was against the intervention in Iraq from the very beginning. What is the point of getting rid of a dictator if those who take over afterwards are just as bad, if not worse? This is what has happened in Iraq, where there is still an unacceptable level of violence—and this after a military intervention resulting in thousands of deaths. Work has to be done with the international community and in particular with the EU, the US and Russia. There has been some evidence that, despite its problems in Ukraine, Russia is willing to try to bring pressure to bear on the regime in Syria to end the violence and to work towards some kind of eventual settlement.

As for Iran, this is a very difficult matter. I was most interested to hear what the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, said about that. However, it seems clear that the regime has been assisting the Syrian regime in the current crisis. The new President is allegedly more moderate, but the human rights situation in the country continues to be bad, with many public executions and the oppression of women. I and a number of my parliamentary colleagues have been in contact with Iranian refugees in the UK.

There is an opposition organisation committed to democratic change led by a woman with an equality agenda. Groups of its members are in UN-protected camps in Iraq at the moment—Ashraf and Liberty—but, unfortunately, because the present Iraqi regime has extremist links with the Iranian Government, members of the camps have been subjected to harassment and there has even been violence in which some of them have been killed. A number of us protested about this at the time and we continue to do so. I know that from time to time the Government have raised objections about what is happening to these vulnerable people. People in the Ashraf and Liberty camps are entitled to protection and I hope that our Government will continue to press the Iraqi and other Governments on that issue.

I refer to this as an indication of the many complexities existing in the Middle East. People struggle for democracy and for the rights that we take for granted, particularly for women. Traditions and culture are difficult, and it takes a great deal of courage. I hope that we will continue to assist those who democratically aim to achieve change. In that respect I commend the Minister, who recently made a speech in which she urged tolerance on the two major competing groups in her own religion—the Sunni and Shia. In the current situation, including what is happening in Syria, that is very important indeed and I thank her for making those statements.

However, as I said earlier, more international activity, pressure and aid are necessary to bring an end to the dreadful carnage in Syria. An immediate ceasefire, as recommended by one noble Lord, should be tried for, to put a stop to the violence in which so many people are suffering so badly. I support what the Government have been doing, but more should be done to assist the poor people caught up in all this violence.

Iraq: UN Special Adviser

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

I understand the strength of the noble Lord’s feeling on this matter, which is one on which we have had discussions in the past. We do not accept the criticisms of Martin Kobler. Indeed, in his latest report on Iraq, the United Nations Secretary-General made specific reference to and paid tribute to the work of Martin Kobler. We believe that a new representative needs to be appointed quickly and that a huge range of issues needs to be dealt with by the head of the UN once that appointment is made.

In relation to his comments on Camp Liberty, the noble Lord is aware that the UNHCR is overseeing Camp Liberty. It is its intention to ensure that various countries around the world accept these individuals from Camp Liberty. I understand that some countries have now come forward: Albania has offered to take 210 and Germany is relocating about 100. Of course, we are assessing certain individuals who in the past have been given refugee status in the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

Is the Minister aware that the residents who have been transferred to Camp Liberty from Ashraf have been subjected to missile attacks and other pretty awful conditions, which are so bad that they are seeking a return to Ashraf? The influence of Mr Kobler has not been exercised on their behalf and something should be done to assist these very unfortunate people.

[Baroness Warsi]

I am aware of two specific attacks; namely, one that took place in February of this year, which resulted in, I think, nine deaths, and one that took place in June of this year, which I understand resulted in the deaths of two residents. However, on both occasions, Iraqis outside the camps lost their lives as well. We have to see this in the context of, sadly, the rising level of violence in Iraq: for example, in May, 1,000 people lost their lives. I am also aware that responsibility for the attacks has now been claimed by the Mukhtar Army, which is an individual militia group and not the Government of Iraq.

Iraq: Camp Liberty

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord raises some important issues. All noble Lords may not be familiar with the background to this matter but, effectively, the Special Representative for Iraq, Martin Kobler, has been accused by his adviser—according to his view—of not being entirely honest about the conditions in Camp Ashraf and Camp Liberty. I do not agree with the noble Lord’s description of Camp Liberty as a concentration camp. He will be familiar with the fact that Iraq signed a memorandum of understanding with the United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq, UNAMI, at the end of last year to move residents to Camp Liberty, with a view to them being assessed by the United Nations as to their refugee status and being relocated. I have concerns, which we have raised with the United Nations, but we are assured that the conditions within Camp Liberty meet the basic humanitarian standards.

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

Is the Minister aware, as I am sure she is, that these people expected to be under UN protection and were transferred from Camp Ashraf where the conditions were absolutely appalling? They had every expectation that Camp Liberty would at least have slightly better conditions but this does not appear to be the case. No matter what the resolution of the situation ultimately is, the people there must be looked after properly. At the moment they clearly are not so what can be done to improve their condition?

[Baroness Warsi]

I looked at this matter in some detail and at the situation in Iraq generally. Sadly, not all the residents in Iraq have 24-hour electricity and not all the residents have running water at all times in the quantities they require. In the backdrop, despite the fact that many individuals living in this particular camp may not be happy with the conditions, they have 24-hour electricity and 24-hour running water. It meets the basic humanitarian needs.

Libya

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Friday 1st April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

My Lords, I speak as someone who opposed the so-called humanitarian interventions in both Iraq and Kosovo. There is a difference this time; there is a resolution from the UN which authorises intervention in a limited way to protect civilians. However, similar problems exist this time as did when the other interventions occurred. I opposed those other interventions because so much emphasis was placed on bombing and this always involves civilian deaths and injuries. I recall how appalled I was by the campaign against Serbia involving 78 days of unremitting bombing of a virtually defenceless people.

I am old enough to remember the Blitz on London in the Second World War. My sister and I were living with our parents on the outskirts of London. We were not evacuated. When I watched the bombing of Serbia on TV, I was reminded of my mother saying, “If we can hear it coming down it’s not going to hit us”. She said that very often. We were lucky but others were hit, including our neighbours. It is a terrifying experience and we inflicted it on others in our interventions. In Serbia cluster bombs were used in urban areas. Those bombs are designed to harm people, including children. Schools and hospitals were hit and much of the country’s infrastructure was destroyed, and for what? Neutral observers claimed that the exodus of Albanians, which we claimed caused our intervention, did not take place until after the bombing commenced. We were intervening in a separatist conflict undertaken by the KLA, which was armed from abroad and claimed Kosovo for itself. When they succeeded as a result of our bombing, they set about getting rid of much of the Serbian population, together with the Roma people and anyone who did not support them, in a most brutal way. The wounds of the conflict remain.

As for Iraq, many people now believe that it was, to put it mildly, a mistake. Again, many thousands of people were killed as a result of our intervention. Is the situation any better? I doubt it. Those in power have strong links with the extremist regime of Iran. The situation of women seems worse than it was under Saddam Hussein. Certainly it is a great deal worse for homosexuals, who face persecution and often death. Christians also allege persecution and many are now refugees. There are still terrorist attacks in the streets. Thousands have died to achieve this doubtful result.

Although in the case of Libya we have a basis for action because of the UN resolution which did not exist in Iran or Kosovo, there are similarities. The UN resolution does not give us the authority to join in on one side of a civil war. What do we know about the insurgents? They claim to be freedom fighters. Others have made similar claims when seeking our assistance, but these have not always turned out to be the case. About Libya, we do not know. It is clear that many countries are not keen on intervention, although of course the veto was not used. The United States is notably cautious—more so than in previous interventions. The President is clearly not willing to undertake the role of the world's policeman.

We have our own domestic problems. The marchers last weekend complained that we have been told that there must be spending cuts because there is no money, yet money can always be found for war. The complaint may be unfair but it is legitimate. We must not become involved in a lengthy dispute and must endeavour to disengage as soon as we can. It is no doubt satisfying to get rid of nasty dictators, but that is not the end of the story, as we should know from previous experience.

Iraq: Camp Ashraf

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords—

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

My Lords—

[Noble Lords]

Cross Bench.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I have not had the chance to study in detail the Spanish decisions. As to Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, there is a difference of view on that. As I think he knows well, the advice we have been given is that the people at Camp Ashraf are not protected under the fourth Geneva convention and therefore cannot be put in that category. There is a difference of view there but I will certainly draw to the attention of my colleagues the procedures of the Spanish Government and see if we can learn something from them.

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

Is it not a fact that the unfortunate people in Camp Ashraf, who include women and children, have been subjected to a long campaign of persecution and harassment by the Iraqi authorities, with food and medical treatment being denied to them? This is really quite insufferable and something ought to be done about it.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I agree it is a miserable situation and I hope it does not turn into an even worse tragedy. The noble Lord, Lord Corbett, has rightly drawn our attention to it and to the organised disturbances apparently promoted by the Iraqi official authorities outside the camp in December and again in January. I myself had an opportunity—not of course to visit the area as it is very difficult to get to—to see the rather grim videos available on the internet, to any noble Lord who cares to watch them, about what was going on and the apparently deliberate provocation: the heaving of stones and the damaging of people in a most unpleasant way. The noble Baroness is also right that there are a lot of women and children in this camp. We have pressed the Iraqi authorities again and again and they undertake that medical, food and all other vital supplies continue to be delivered to Camp Ashraf. That is what they tell us and we will continue to hold them to that. However, in the longer term they have also made it clear that the camp cannot stay as it is and those involved may have to be moved. This is the prospect we will have to deal with.