Libya

Baroness Turner of Camden Excerpts

Friday 1st April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

My Lords, I speak as someone who opposed the so-called humanitarian interventions in both Iraq and Kosovo. There is a difference this time; there is a resolution from the UN which authorises intervention in a limited way to protect civilians. However, similar problems exist this time as did when the other interventions occurred. I opposed those other interventions because so much emphasis was placed on bombing and this always involves civilian deaths and injuries. I recall how appalled I was by the campaign against Serbia involving 78 days of unremitting bombing of a virtually defenceless people.

I am old enough to remember the Blitz on London in the Second World War. My sister and I were living with our parents on the outskirts of London. We were not evacuated. When I watched the bombing of Serbia on TV, I was reminded of my mother saying, “If we can hear it coming down it’s not going to hit us”. She said that very often. We were lucky but others were hit, including our neighbours. It is a terrifying experience and we inflicted it on others in our interventions. In Serbia cluster bombs were used in urban areas. Those bombs are designed to harm people, including children. Schools and hospitals were hit and much of the country’s infrastructure was destroyed, and for what? Neutral observers claimed that the exodus of Albanians, which we claimed caused our intervention, did not take place until after the bombing commenced. We were intervening in a separatist conflict undertaken by the KLA, which was armed from abroad and claimed Kosovo for itself. When they succeeded as a result of our bombing, they set about getting rid of much of the Serbian population, together with the Roma people and anyone who did not support them, in a most brutal way. The wounds of the conflict remain.

As for Iraq, many people now believe that it was, to put it mildly, a mistake. Again, many thousands of people were killed as a result of our intervention. Is the situation any better? I doubt it. Those in power have strong links with the extremist regime of Iran. The situation of women seems worse than it was under Saddam Hussein. Certainly it is a great deal worse for homosexuals, who face persecution and often death. Christians also allege persecution and many are now refugees. There are still terrorist attacks in the streets. Thousands have died to achieve this doubtful result.

Although in the case of Libya we have a basis for action because of the UN resolution which did not exist in Iran or Kosovo, there are similarities. The UN resolution does not give us the authority to join in on one side of a civil war. What do we know about the insurgents? They claim to be freedom fighters. Others have made similar claims when seeking our assistance, but these have not always turned out to be the case. About Libya, we do not know. It is clear that many countries are not keen on intervention, although of course the veto was not used. The United States is notably cautious—more so than in previous interventions. The President is clearly not willing to undertake the role of the world's policeman.

We have our own domestic problems. The marchers last weekend complained that we have been told that there must be spending cuts because there is no money, yet money can always be found for war. The complaint may be unfair but it is legitimate. We must not become involved in a lengthy dispute and must endeavour to disengage as soon as we can. It is no doubt satisfying to get rid of nasty dictators, but that is not the end of the story, as we should know from previous experience.