Armed Forces Bill

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Thursday 11th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the Bill and will ask the Minister to consider one issue that he has not touched upon today. Before that, I will say how much I look forward to the three maiden speeches that we are to hear, particularly that of my noble friend Lord Murphy of Torfaen, whom I know well from our work in another place. He has a distinguished career. He was chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee, as I was, but he also served as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I think that we are all aware of his thoughtful and measured comments on most issues, and I am sure that we will hear them today. He has another side that I should perhaps mention. Anybody who has ever been abroad with him will know that he is an absolute shopaholic, and maybe we will see that side come out on some occasions as well.

As I say, I welcome the Bill, as I know will my noble friend on the Front Bench. I am sure that he will continue his style of yesterday and support the Government when they get things right as well as nudging them along in other places. Like my noble friend, I was a Minister in the MoD. Unlike him, I did not have responsibility for veteran affairs or indeed service personnel, although I was always aware of the work that he and fellow Ministers did, and the significant progress that they made, in terms of the care and welfare of our armed service men and women. Significant progress was made in terms of pay, in investing heavily in accommodation, which had been very much neglected for many years, and in helping injured veterans. Improved awareness of these issues during that time laid the foundation for the Armed Forces covenant.

Progress was also made in the 2006 Act, which the Minister referred to, in terms of trying to get clarification on a whole number of issues. I take the point that my noble friend Lord West and indeed the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, made, that there may still be some difficult areas, particularly for personnel who serve on active duty. We need to consider exactly how we can make progress and get the right balance in that area.

As the Minister said, many provisions in the Bill are not controversial, although obviously they will have to be looked at in further detail in Committee, because that is its purpose, and we have to make sure that the detail matches the overall objectives of the Bill.

I will raise one issue that was raised briefly in another place, and on which the Government could make progress without too much difficulty. Obviously, many changes in recent years have affected service personnel. We have seen a reduction in numbers and an increased reliance on reservists and the extra roles that they are supposed to undertake on the front line. But we have also seen some welcome progress, such as the fact that women may now occupy many roles on active service, which is very important and useful and which has been of benefit to our armed services and to the country as a whole. There is still some way to go but progress has been made.

I want to raise with the Minister the report that was carried out by the MoD last year about sexual harassment in the armed services. Obviously, sexual harassment is not just about women, but the report showed that it is a particular problem for women in the armed services, and it came up with some rather worrying statistics. The report recorded that 39% of servicewomen in the Army who had been asked about the issue said that they had received unwelcome comments and attempts to talk about sexual matters, 12% of women in the Armed Forces said that they had experienced unwanted attempts to touch and 10% had experienced attempts to have a sexual relationship. That is clearly not a good situation. There were statistics for men as well, which were also worrying, even though the problem did not seem to be so significant. It was a great breakthrough for the MoD to carry out such a survey and I congratulate those who were involved in doing that.

I recognise that legislation alone and any amendment to the Bill will not simply solve the problem. Increased awareness that behaviour of this kind is not to be tolerated will help. But if there were a requirement to publish statistics on sexual assault and rape, this kind of measuring and monitoring of the problem would help to get us nearer to the zero-tolerance situation that should be the case. I therefore hope that the Minister will consider changing his approach to the Bill. We have to change the culture but if we could have a requirement to monitor the situation, it would help very significantly. I therefore hope that when we come to Committee, the Minister will look favourably on attempts to raise this problem and get it into perspective, and to consider ways we might try to use that report and information to make the situation better in future.

I will say something about one more issue, which is the point raised by my noble friend Lord West on mesothelioma. He was absolutely right to stress the urgency of this issue. I was able to assist our late colleague Lord Lofthouse when he campaigned for miners suffering from pneumoconiosis and the compensation scheme got into difficulties because of the impact of lawyers who tried to jump on the bandwagon of those making claims. That took place over a long period because it was a much slower illness. Mesothelioma is a very rapid illness and is absolutely devastating. Many people have waited a very long time for compensation, which really should be paid on an equitable basis compared with compensation for civilians. I hope that the Minister will look at that issue as well.

Armed Forces Bill

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Monday 10th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton]

My Lords, perhaps I may say a few words about the government amendments that we have now seen and thank the Minister for his co-operation in listening to the voices of several Members of this House on all sides who raised the issue at Second Reading, in Committee and on Report. It has perhaps taken a little longer than we would have liked to have reached this position, which is very much a last-minute position, but very real progress has been made. Those of us who have been involved in the passage of the Bill will want to acknowledge and thank both Ministers and officials for the level of co-operation and the constructive outcome that we have.

I particularly mention Amendment 7, which is important in making it clear to those entitled to be covered by these provisions exactly what their positions are. They are named in different categories so no one who is entitled should have any doubt that the Armed Forces covenant will apply to them.

We have had a good level of co-operation. We have proved the usefulness of this House for those who have any doubt and I am sure that in another place these changes will be widely welcomed. I appreciate the work and co-operation on all sides of the House. We should all be very pleased with the conclusions and the final drafting that we have.

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I first speak to Amendment 1, which is in my name as well as that of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig. I repeat his thanks to the Minister and his officials and to the officials in this House who came in for some criticism the other day for possibly being slow over this matter.

In Committee and at Second Reading a number of us made comments about how the veterans part of this covenant would be overseen. I am enormously grateful for the way that the Government have moved and for the amendments now before us. However, thinking through how this might happen, I still think that in the years to come the Government may well find that they will have to have somebody outside the Ministry of Defence responsible for overseeing the delivery of the veterans part of the covenant. A number of us have suggested in the past that that would be better done by having a Minister for veteran affairs in the Cabinet Office. I suggest that whoever is given that appointment will also need someone like a commissioner responsible for the 24/7 oversight of the work being done for veterans in response to whatever is presented by the various Ministers in each of the annual reports.

Armed Forces Bill

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Tuesday 4th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support the noble and gallant Lord and to speak to Amendment 6. I think that we in this House are all aware of the low morale that exists today, sadly, in our Armed Forces. According to the Armed Forces continuous attitude survey of all service personnel, only 18 per cent regard morale as high, whereas 44 per cent regard it as low. In the RAF, only 9 per cent regard it as high and 62 per cent regard it as low; in the Navy, 9 per cent regard it as high and 56 per cent regard it as low. I think that it is obvious to us all why morale is so low, given the cancellations, the cuts and the recent unfortunate redundancies. So anything that we can sensibly do to add certainty and clarity to the Armed Forces covenant must be beneficial to Armed Forces morale.

Amendment 6 builds on the earlier amendment that I and other noble Lords moved in Committee. I am happy to acknowledge the movement in the Government’s position as a result of the contributions from noble Lords during the passage of the Bill. However, I still ask my noble friend and the Government to go just one step further and include in the covenant report specific statements from the respective Secretaries of State, thereby giving them part ownership of and direct responsibility for the report.

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton]

My Lords, I, too, would like to say a few words in support of Amendment 6, which I spoke to in Committee, as did many other noble Lords. Indeed, some of the arguments put forward were echoed in the debate on the first grouping of amendments. I think that this does go very wide, and a lot of people are concerned to make sure that we do not lose an opportunity to maximise the impact that we can have in showing our commitment to the military covenant and ensuring that the provisions—that I think we all agree should be there—materialise in reality.

Rather than repeat the arguments that were used before, I want to reinforce certain points. I also acknowledge the work that the Minister has done in trying to reassure us that he understands the concerns that are there and why there is pressure to move in the direction in which we are pushing. I said in Committee that this amendment is designed genuinely to be helpful. I think that it will be helpful to any Minister in the Ministry of Defence to have other Ministers underwrite the statements that have specific responsibility from their departments, so that when the Secretary of State for Defence or whichever Minister signs off that document, they will be dealing with things that are the direct responsibility of the MoD. Other people will be taking responsibility where they should in the other areas mentioned, such as education and health. We also have to think of the devolved Assemblies. So I think that it is helpful to Ministers in the home department.

There is another very important reason for writing into the Bill the responsibilities of Ministers in other departments. Unless their names are on the face of the Bill, we will not get the maximum buy-in, commitment and drive from those departments to meet the obligations that we know Ministers in the MoD want to see and, I think, the rest of us want to see as well.

We have heard on other occasions that other Ministers are very happy to co-operate—as we found when we were considering the armed services White Paper a couple of years ago—but we have to make sure that the momentum does not diminish and that everybody maximises their level of commitment. It is important that we do not lose this opportunity to drive home that very necessary message.

The amendment serves a further useful purpose by making it clear that the covenant applies not only to military personnel but also to their families and to veterans. In our earlier discussions, it was felt that it would be helpful to specify very clearly that that was the case, not because the Ministry of Defence or other departments did not feel that it was but to show that those people could have the expectation that they would be cared for in a way that was appropriate.

I hope that the Minister will look favourably on Amendment 6; I think that it is technically in order. As was said earlier, Ministers are always under pressure not to accept amendments in legislation, but I think that there would be considerable support in both Houses for action along the lines that we have discussed.

[The Lord Bishop of St Edmundsbury and Ipswich]

My Lords, my colleague the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Wakefield has been involved in the efforts to add strength to this part of the Bill, and his name appears on the amendment paper as supporting this amendment. Unfortunately, he is unable to be present today because of duties within his diocese. I am here to speak on his behalf from these Benches.

Having heard what other noble Lords have said, I think that there is little that I can add, so I shall restrict myself to saying that the amendment will help to ensure that any report to Parliament is authoritative and extends both across all government departments as well as across the whole United Kingdom, including the devolved Assemblies.

While I warmly welcome the undertaking given earlier by the Minister about other ministries being consulted, naming them in this way gives a degree of future-proofing to make sure that it happens. The amendment would enhance transparency by ensuring that all the relevant bodies and departments other than the Ministry of Defence really were part of any report laid before Parliament.

There appears to be considerable consensus as to the objective that the amendment seeks to achieve; the division comes over the appropriate means and whether achieving those means is possible within a tight timeframe. I do not think that the amendment is overly prescriptive, and I hope that it is not so complicated or contentious a proposal as to cause undue delay to Parliament's handling of the Bill.

If it is possible to be assured that the objectives of the amendment could be achieved by other means, I, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Wakefield and others would of course be very prepared to listen to what those means might be. However they are achieved, the ultimate test will be the quality of the first report on the covenant that is made by the Secretary of State. The aim of this amendment is to help ensure that the report is both of a high standard and effective.

Armed Forces Bill

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Grand Committee

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton]

My Lords, I wish to reinforce what has just been said and emphasise the all-party nature of this amendment. As the noble Lord, Lord Lee, has said, people with significant experience in the Ministry of Defence have attached their names to it and it has been tabled it in an attempt to be helpful to Ministers in that department. Several of us have stood at the government Dispatch Box and have had to refuse amendments even though they were helpful, and defend the Government’s position in so doing. We are considering a wide group of amendments and I can well understand that the Minister might feel that he has to resist an inclination to respond favourably in all cases. However, this amendment is different from all the others and constitutes probably the minimum that the Government should seek to do, as the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, said. It would protect Ministers in the MoD. If Secretaries of State are not responsible for their input into the report, we will have second-hand information. Although I am sure that there is no lack of trust between Ministers, it ought to be clear where responsibility lies. This mechanism would enable a better buy-in from other government departments. We have made significant progress in that regard in recent years but we need to consolidate and work on it. Therefore, I hope that the Minister will look favourably on this amendment.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, as someone from the ranks, as it were, not having been a Defence Minister, I add my voice to those of former Defence Ministers and speak to Amendment 10 standing in my name. Other amendments in the group concern important matters such as who should prepare reports. My amendment concerns the more mundane but nevertheless important matter of a covenant with our Armed Forces which must note what improvement has been made to the dire condition of too many of the 44,000 forces family homes in the UK.

As noble Lords will remember, the housing was sold off but the MoD is responsible for repairs and maintenance. That is not necessarily a good deal. The MoD has not had the will or the funds to keep many of these properties in a good state of repair. It is clear to me from the inquiries I have made that the coalition Government accept that this problem goes back many years and recognise that something needs to be done. I also accept that in these times of cuts and reductions in expenditure there are unlikely to be sufficient funds radically to improve the existing housing stock. I hope that the purpose of my amendment is simple; namely, to think outside the box. If the MoD does not have the funds to carry out this work—I am told that it does not—and if the freeholder will not do the work because the properties were sold off to a housing association, we should look at other funding streams, as is the case with social housing in the public sector. The amendment is meant to be helpful in terms of directing thought towards other methods.

The amendment asks for a report on the progress being made between the Ministry of Defence and housing associations to improve the accommodation for servicepeople. I am sure that this is not an original thought, but I envisage a round table of housing associations active in garrison towns to build new homes for service personnel or to renovate existing stock to a high standard. A few minutes ago, at Oral Questions in the Chamber, people were reminiscing about World War II. For people of my age who were born during that war, the saying was “homes for heroes”, but I am afraid that we do not nowadays have “a fair deal for squaddies”.

Armed Forces Bill

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Selkirk of Douglas. I remember him well from my time as a Minister. Perhaps I can best describe him as a very persistent campaigner on these issues; he has a long-term interest here.

I, too, start by paying tribute to our Armed Forces—those whose care and welfare is affected by the Bill—and their families, who should not be forgotten in our deliberations today. We have been reminded again this week of the ultimate sacrifice that many make, and our thoughts are obviously with the family and friends of those who have been killed in recent campaigns, as they should be with those who have been injured and those who have had their lives changed by their experience of conflict.

During my time in the Ministry of Defence, I saw the real expertise, commitment and dedication of those who served in the Armed Forces, and it is our purpose and responsibility today, and in Committee and later stages of the Bill, to ensure, as far as possible, that they get the framework of service rules that will serve them well, and the support and care that they and their families need both during and after their active service. As the Minister said, this opportunity comes up only once every five years, so we must make the most of it when we have it. Therefore, it is right that Members should comment not only on what is in the Bill but on some things that they would have liked to have seen developed further.

It is because we have a significant obligation to those who serve our country that I want to make a point about some things that the previous Labour Government achieved. I was pleased that mention has already been made of the service personnel Command Paper. I was in the Ministry of Defence at the time when the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, was in post. We should not underestimate the degree of change that that White Paper brought about in people's minds. Mention has been made of the military covenant, and it was talked about a great deal before that, but that White Paper was a significant step forward. It was the first-ever cross-government strategy, and it took a great deal of work, in particular, on the part of my ministerial colleague, Bob Ainsworth.

Before that White Paper was published, there was no mechanism for translating the moral obligation that has been talked about today into real provision. I agree with the Minister that we cannot dot every “i” and cross every “t”, but it is important that we get the principles and the framework right. Our discussions today and those that will take place in Committee go back to that groundbreaking achievement. I am similarly proud of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme, and indeed what that Government did on pay and provisions.

The question is: where are we now? Does this Bill do all that it could do? What issues will have to be returned to in Committee? The Minister will know that on an occasion like this the contributions tend to concentrate on where colleagues want to go further and do more, rather than praise what is actually in the Bill. First, I welcome Clause 13, which relates to reduction in rank or rate; I welcome the automaticity of the current arrangements. This ability not to punish twice may not be used often, but I think that it should be available, and I just wanted to put that on the record.

I want to say a few words about some of the issues that I think will need further consideration in Committee, not surprisingly starting with some of the issues that come under the heading of the military covenant. Not much mention has yet been made of one aspect of the changes that have been introduced so far, the issue of Armed Forces advocates. The previous Government piloted an Armed Forces welfare pathway whereby a number of local authorities appointed Armed Forces advocates to ensure that, in terms of policy development, Armed Forces personnel, veterans and their families had their specific needs recognised and that appropriate services were provided at the local level. This was raised in Committee in another place, and the Minister said that we did not need legislation now and that he could talk about possible local solutions. I hope that that indicates real approval of the concept and that the Minister can confirm that. However, I am worried that that approach could be somewhat complacent, especially when we consider the pressures on local authorities at the moment. I wonder what mechanisms the Minister thinks we should put in place to ensure that local communities are protected and that we make real progress there. No one can deny that, across the whole range of provisions by local authorities in housing and education, and indeed at the national level, there is a need for monitoring as well.

I will also briefly mention the idea of veterans’ ID cards. I am a supporter of ID cards generally, so I may be biased. To me, the provision of ID cards for veterans would be of obvious benefit to them across a range of services in both the public and private provisions. I think that if we did have veterans’ ID cards they would have an indirect benefit of increasing public awareness of the needs—and indeed the contribution—of veterans. I hope that we can go further in that direction and explore that aspect further. In the Commons, mention was made of servicemen keeping their military ID cards. I do not know whether that plan, or any variation on that theme, has any potential, but I think that we should look at it.

I will also mention mental health. In healthcare generally, very significant steps have been made in the last few years in respect of the health needs of veterans. However, I think that it was quite difficult to get the breakthrough that led to people appreciating that the mental health needs of veterans were something that we needed to talk about and to highlight. My two ministerial colleagues, Derek Twigg and Kevan Jones, spent a great deal of time trying to make sure that there was proper co-operation in order that we did get the services that we need for veterans who have mental health problems and who often were afraid to come forward and talk about their situation because there was a stigma attached and it was something to be ashamed of.

I want to ask the Minister about the future of the new provisions that were established. We launched six mental health pilots—in Stafford, Camden and Islington, Cardiff, Bishop Auckland, Plymouth and Edinburgh. They were launched with the intention of assessing the needs of veterans and rolling out this programme across the country. It would be useful if we could have an update on that because it really is important that we continue to make progress.

Time is short and I want to say a word about minors, although I am not sure that I necessarily agree with some of my colleagues on this. While protecting the rights of minors and making sure that they know what they are doing when they join the Armed Forces, we have to be realistic and realise that, for some young people, the opportunities for training, education and turning their lives around are available at the age of 17 but may not be 12 or 18 months later. We should look at the whole picture when we talk of issues of that kind.

I end by reinforcing some of what has been said about the need for proper reporting on where we get to on the military covenant. From the speeches that we have heard already, it seems to me that there are loose ends and concerns about exactly what will happen in practice. When the noble Lord, Lord Lee, spoke about relevant Ministers having to report on their own departments, he made a very strong case. At the moment, we have a Secretary of State for Defence who is going to have to report on health, education and housing, none of which is in his immediate remit, but he will not report on, for example, pensions, pay and allowances, and redundancies. Therefore, I think that there is still some scope for clarifying the situation here and for finding a way of making reporting more effective. As has been mentioned, we are talking about 10 million people—one in six of the population—and we have to get right not only co-ordination but reporting, accounting and monitoring. Unless we get that aspect right, we will not be able to go on to make the improvements that we need in the future.