House of Lords: Domestic Committees

Baroness Taylor of Bolton Excerpts

Monday 9th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Bolton (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, because some of the points she just made illustrate the kind of information that we were getting about how the committees are working or have been in the past.

I start by thanking the Leader for providing this debate and all the leaders for the way they have sought to respond to the problems our report has highlighted. I join others, especially those on the group, in thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Shephard, for operating as an inclusive chair while keeping us on the straight and narrow, and echo the thanks to our clerk, Judith Brooke, who did a sterling job fulfilling her responsibilities and providing assistance.

My starting point is that our report and recommendations may not be absolutely the last word on all these issues—we are not claiming that—but we should bear in mind that not one person gave evidence to us defending the existing system. Nobody from any side of the House or any member of staff came along and said, “No. Don’t change things. Everything is working perfectly”. Very clearly, from all the evidence we received, everything is not working perfectly and we have to revise what we are doing. Indeed, the main concern expressed to me was that our remit was too narrow because we were not allowed to look at procedure or the role of the Speaker. Had we been able to, we would not be having this debate today, because we would be nowhere near finished. It was hard enough work to get to where we are with our limited remit.

On behalf of the group, and without consulting it, I apologise to my noble friend Lady Donaghy if she felt at all victimised; that really was not our intention. I am glad that she is not taking it personally and I am sure that, in time, her suggestion of user groups will be considered by the new senior committee as appropriate or when a specific issue is raised, because communication was certainly one problem we identified.

The themes the report threw up have been well mentioned: lack of clarity, buck-passing, delays, lack of accountability and lack of direction on occasions. The example used of printers and printer ink explains exactly the nature of the problem, and is one that everyone will remember indefinitely. Our stunned reaction when we first heard about it sums up much of the problem that the committee felt we were facing, as do our examples from the Refreshment Committee, which have been mentioned quite often.

The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, mentioned that the committees’ working is sometimes a mystery to those who are not on them; we found that it was sometimes just as much a mystery to those who were. That should not be the case and is often a problem for staff as well.

I think that our proposals create the right framework and are clear and straightforward. As everyone has mentioned, the detail is not finalised. These recommendations can be tweaked and considered. I heard what my noble friend Lady Cohen said about the Audit Committee, what the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, said about induction—something on which I think we would all agree—and what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, said about phasing in or transitional arrangements for the new system. What we just heard about the work of the Information Committee going forward could be particularly useful in that respect; those are important points.

However, there is a sense of urgency about this. We really need to act to strengthen the governance of this House, not least because we already have 64% joint working with the Commons—but, as others have mentioned, we are now moving on to the phase of restoration and renewal. It is important that we feel confident that we have the right structures in place in this House. The key in all we were trying to do was to get clarity in our structures and responsibilities. We need proper terms of reference for any committee of this House and proper systems of delegation, be it to the chair or to officers. We need to end the confusion that exists. That is particularly important not just for the good working of the House, but because we are talking about public funds. It is important that we have the degree of accountability and transparency that is the essence of good governance. Making those changes will benefit Members, who will know what decisions are being taken, why, and by whom. It will be significant for the staff of the House, officers and others who work in the House because they will have clearer instructions, there will be less possibility of confusing and conflicting instructions, and less scope for delays caused by prevarication and things being passed from one committee to another. We all have every reason to be grateful to those who work in this House. The evidence we got from members of staff through the drop-in centres told us of the difficulties that can arise for those who work here because of the confusions that exist.

We have got the framework right; we need to look at what might be the detail. I was glad that the Leader of the House made it clear that she would be willing to make sure that there are transitional arrangements. As the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, said, we have not been dotting “i”s and crossing “t”s—we have been creating a framework. It is not a mission statement but something practical, which will take us further forward. The remit we had from the Leader of the House was to ensure that domestic committee decision-making was effective, transparent and accountable. We have made a good start, and I hope the House will take the proposals further.