Control of Mercury (Enforcement) (Amendment) Regulations 2025

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Blencathra

Thursday 30th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for her very clear presentation. I take the opportunity to wish the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, a speedy recovery. If she is watching this debate today, she should know that we are all thinking of her. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, for the opportunity to have this debate, because it is an important debate. However, as ever, it is a debate about two different issues. The first is the ongoing constitutional debate about the functioning of the Windsor Framework and the democratic questions arising from Northern Ireland having to accept decisions taken by the European Union when we no longer have representation there since leaving the EU. The second debate is the substance of these regulations: the phasing out of amalgam dental fillings and the exemption for Northern Ireland to 2034. I will deal with the latter point first.

I believe the exemption to 2034 is welcome. The NHS in Northern Ireland, and dentistry in particular, is in a state of some crisis. This nine-year exemption will allow time to make the transition from amalgam to composite fillings in a planned and phased manner, and will avoid the shock to Northern Ireland dentistry which many dental professionals warned about. Clearly, I am not a dentist. I listened with interest to the noble Lord, Lord Weir, and to the noble Lord, Lord Reay, but it is noticeable, I would say, that amalgam fillings have seen a marked decrease in popularity in recent years. People are keen to choose the more aesthetically pleasing white composite fillings.

The noble Lord, Lord Reay, powerfully made the case in his speech that the use of mercury amalgam fillings has always been somewhat controversial. They require much greater drilling in the tooth, which can have long-term consequences. They add enormously, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, has said, to mercury pollution in the environment. Ahead of this debate today, I was reading that a recent medical research paper has indicated that their use might even have an impact on arthritis. I would be grateful if the Minister could, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, asked, clarify the Government’s position on eventually banning mercury amalgam fillings in England.

Like the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, ahead of the imminent meeting on the Minamata Convention on Mercury being held next week, from 3 November to 7 November, I would be interested to know the Government’s response to a proposal by the African nations for a ban on dental amalgam by 2030. I believe the Minister in her opening remarks said that if amalgam fillings are eventually banned for the rest of the UK ahead of 2034, Northern Ireland would follow suit and these regulations would fall. I would be grateful if she could clarify that in her closing remarks.

On the constitutional issue, as noble Lords will know—indeed, it would not be a debate on a regret amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, if I did not point this out—if we had not left the European Union then we would not be having these arguments, because we would have been able to make the case within the EU institutions on behalf of UK dentists, including Northern Ireland dentists, at the Council and the European Parliament. But she and I are never entirely going to agree on those matters.

As others have said, the Windsor Framework is very far from perfect. There is a democratic deficit, and it is something that we in the rest of the UK are going to have to face if we go further down the route of dynamic alignment. But I would argue that this set of regulations is a positive story. There was an issue, and the UK Government and the EU listened, the Northern Ireland Assembly made the case powerfully, and an exemption to 2034 was granted. That is why on these Benches we support these regulations and oppose the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, because it allows us to debate a very important subject. It is important on two counts, as we heard in the debate: first, on the constitutional issue, and, secondly, on the merits or demerits of amalgam—and some powerful speeches were made pointing out how dangerous it can be. It has allowed us to hear an excellent opening address from the Minister.

I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, on two counts, the first being her assurance, and that of the noble Lord, Lord Weir, that we will finish by 7 pm. Of course, this being Northern Ireland business, I was betting on 6.55 pm. The second count is that Peers from Northern Ireland have raised the important constitutional question. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, that I do not find this tedious at all. I am afraid I share his view that, sooner or later, this is going to come to a crunch. We have yet another regulation before us here which will slowly drive a wedge between our United Kingdom and our Northern Ireland.

I had no idea about the poppies issue. I Google searched it after the noble Baroness mentioned it, and I was appalled to find that she is absolutely right—EU interference with selling poppies in Northern Ireland.

We on these Benches recognise the importance of reducing mercury use in line with the Minamata convention. We do not oppose the principle of this instrument. However, it is right that we probe the Government on how it has been implemented, particularly regarding dental amalgam and its replacement, as my noble friends have discussed.

Northern Ireland, as we know, has been granted a longer-term transition period, allowing the continued import and use of amalgam until 2034 to avoid disruption to dental services. Apart from my noble friend Lord Reay, most Members in the House seem to agree that the extension is sensible while we look for workable alternatives. What engagement has taken place with dental practitioners in Northern Ireland? How will the Government monitor the practical impacts of divergence between Northern Ireland and Great Britain? How will any future decision under the Minamata convention affect this timeline?

We note the British Dental Association’s concerns about cost and capacity. Amalgam, it says, is a widely used and affordable material, and replacing it too quickly, without proper support, could worsen access issues. My noble friend Lord Bourne also wanted reassurance on that point. On the other hand, my noble friend Lord Reay, in a very powerful speech, pointed out the severe dangers of mercury amalgam and that alternatives were available already—almost as cheap and better.

I simply do not know. I will not say that finding the answer is like pulling teeth—there is no time for silliness—but the Government ought to know. If the Government do not know now, hopefully in the next few years they will. Will we be able, before 2034, to find for the whole United Kingdom—not just Northern Ireland but the whole United Kingdom—a reasonably cheap alternative to dental amalgam?

We do not oppose this instrument, but we urge the Government to remain alert to its impact on front-line services to ensure that both patients and practitioners in Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom are properly supported. I urge the Government, as soon as possible, to work with those developing alternatives to make sure that a replacement is available to Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom as soon as practicable.

Marking of Retail Goods Regulations 2025

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Blencathra

Monday 30th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations, as well as for her continued tireless work in trying to find pragmatic solutions to these highly complex issues. I commend the noble Lord, Lord Empey, on his excellent assessment of why we are where we are. The rush to get a deal at any cost means we are now living through this; he and the noble Lord, Lord Elliott, were right in their assessment of that.

On a recent visit to Brussels with the European Affairs Committee of your Lordships’ House, it was clear that our European partners are welcoming this more pragmatic approach to finding solutions, and the relief of the change of tone coming from this Government was palpable. Given the hour and the heat of the day, and the rather overexcessive air-conditioning in this Chamber, I shall endeavour to keep my remarks extremely brief.

I am sure that the noble Lords opposite will not be surprised that from these Benches we support at least the intent behind these regulations, which give the Government power to protect the UK internal market and should assist in ensuring consumer choice in Northern Ireland. It is important, as others have said, that there are not disincentives for GB businesses wanting to sell their goods to Northern Ireland, and that red tape and bureaucracy are kept to a minimum. It is therefore welcome that there is an exemption for smaller businesses.

In his concluding remarks on the debate on these regulations in the House of Commons, Minister Daniel Zeichner MP said that the Secretary of State will conduct the first review after two years, rather than the usual five, and it is contained in these regulations. The Minister in the House of Commons stated that this will

“allow for scrutiny of the policy in the context of the proposed SPS agreement”.—[Official Report, Commons, First Delegated Legislation Committee, 23/6/25; col. 10.]

This suggests that the Government are confident of having the SPS agreement in place well before that two-year review. Can the Minister in her concluding remarks confirm that this is the case, and can she give a rough estimate of the timing for the SPS agreement?

The Minister in the House of Commons also suggested that these regulations that we are debating this evening will be much less necessary once the SPS agreement is in place. Can the Minister say a little more about how, in practical terms, these regulations will fit in with the proposed SPS agreement?

Finally, following the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Weir, can the Minister confirm that, in many ways, these regulations are a stopgap until the various agreements announced at the summit on 19 May are concluded?

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, being here tonight reminded me of some of those wonderful days in the House of Commons in the 1980s and 1990s, when we used to do Northern Ireland business on Wednesday, and it would go on until 10 pm, 11pm, one, two or three in the morning, before Tony Blair changed the hours and we could no longer do it—I was reminiscing about that tonight.

I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations, a statutory instrument that addresses a complex issue which is the result of the Windsor Framework. The regulations aim to safeguard the continuity of retail goods into Northern Ireland, enabling the Secretary the State to mandate “not for EU” labelling on certain goods sold in Great Britain, but only in response to clear evidence that the supply to Northern Ireland would otherwise be seriously disrupted. Noble Lords have challenged that.

Once again, I find myself having considerable sympathy with many of the points made by my noble friends from Northern Ireland, particularly the noble Lords, Lord Dodds and Lord Empey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, made a key point that we are now dealing with minutiae and some of the absurdity of these regulations which, as the noble Lord, Lord Weir, said, are a kind of sticking plaster, but the real problem goes back to what was negotiated six or seven years ago, when the then Government caved in to the demands of Varadkar, and we ended up with the Northern Ireland protocol—now the Windsor Framework. The noble Lord described it as one of the worst agreements ever negotiated by any Government. He and his noble friends can say that; I, of course, could not possibly comment.

Given the comparatively small size of Northern Ireland’s retail market, we acknowledge the risk that businesses may consider delisting products rather than incurring added costs of compliance. In this context, the contingency power created by this instrument appears to be a proportionate tool, aimed at protecting supply chains and consumer choice in Northern Ireland. It would be utterly unacceptable that goods only for Northern Ireland were labelled, because they would then be delisted. It is slightly less absurd that we try to label them for the whole UK, or certainly for England, but I hope other countries as well. If they are labelled for everybody, there is less chance that we will delist them for Northern Ireland. That is one of the hoops we must go through now we are stuck with the Northern Ireland protocol, or the Windsor Framework.

We do not oppose these regulations, but I seek clarity from the Minister on a number of points, which are essential for ensuring that this policy is both proportionate and effective in practice. As an aside, was there not someone who had a big shed on the border, half in Northern Ireland and half in the Republic of Ireland, and the cattle used to move to and fro between them? Listening to noble Lords from Northern Ireland, I am surprised that someone has not opened a huge supermarket a few yards inside Northern Ireland and encouraged everyone to come up there for their shopping. That is not an official policy, but it seemed to me that it is bound to happen if goods in supermarkets in Northern Ireland are so much cheaper.

First, on the thresholds of evidence, can the Minister outline what specific types of evidence will be required to trigger a notice? Secondly, with regard to the impact on business, while we welcome the exemption for small businesses, what practical support—whether it is financial or advisory—will be offered to those just above the threshold to mitigate undue burdens, particularly for SMEs? It is all very well being exempt at 50, but if you have 51 or 60 employees, then you are caught by it and the burden could be astronomical.

Secondly, they have been quoted already, but I read the concerns raised by industry and they should be carefully considered. The chief executive of Marks & Spencer, Stuart Machin, described the current requirements of “not for EU” labelling as “bureaucratic madness”. He highlighted the potential for added costs, confusion for consumers and disruption to supply chains. He also said that more than 1,000 M&S products will now require labelling for Northern Ireland and a further 400 will be subject to red lane checks. Such feedback underlines the importance of ensuring that any new burdens placed on retailers—especially those operating across the UK’s internal market—are genuinely proportionate and that government support is made available where needed. I would be grateful if the Minister can tell me why Mr Machin has got it wrong.

Thirdly, on enforcement and consistency, given that enforcement will fall to local authorities across England, Wales and Scotland, what steps will be taken to ensure consistent interpretation and application of the rules across the devolved nations?

Fourthly, on public understanding, do the Government have plans for a co-ordinated public communications strategy to ensure that consumers both in Great Britain and Northern Ireland understand what the “not for EU” label signifies—that it does not reflect on the quality or safety of the goods in question—because that could be misconstrued?

Fifthly and finally, on future adaptability, as UK-EU trade dynamics continue to evolve, how will these regulations be reviewed—and, if necessary, revised—to reflect changes in market conditions or the operation of the Windsor Framework? Can the Minister confirm how soon Parliament will be updated following such a review?

As all noble Lords opposite and the noble Baroness have pointed out, while these regulations are technical in nature, they are far from trivial in effect. I understand the points made by noble Lords opposite, that, in their opinion, they affect the fundamental sovereignty of Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom. The issues they seek to address go to the heart of supply chain integrity, consumer protection and the delicate balance of the UK’s internal market.

We welcome continued dialogue on the implementation of these powers and look forward to the Minister’s reassurances on the points raised.

Movement of Goods (Northern Ireland to Great Britain) (Animals, Feed and Food, Plant Health etc.) (Transitory Provision and Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2024

Debate between Baroness Suttie and Lord Blencathra

Tuesday 10th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Suttie (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister again for introducing these regulations and for the extremely constructive way in which she has taken a personal interest in trying to find pragmatic solutions to this undoubtedly very complex set of issues.

It is clear from the several debates we have had on the Windsor Framework regulations, today and previously, that they provoke strong emotions and reactions from the noble Lords of the DUP and the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey. However, it is true that in Northern Ireland there are also different points of view on these matters, which we heard very clearly, eloquently and constructively expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie.

I will not repeat the Brexit arguments that I have made previously, but it is none the less true that we would not be debating these issues if we were still in the European Union or if the whole of the United Kingdom had remained in the EU single market. There are genuine and legitimate issues about how to carry out parliamentary scrutiny of EU single market regulations when we no longer have representation in EU institutions and have to be a rule-taker without a say in the process. I have suggested previously that it would be useful for the whole House to have a wider debate, at some point soon, on our relations with the EU and on the much talked about reset with the EU and what it would look like in reality. It would also be useful to have a debate on the approach towards parliamentary oversight of decisions and regulations adopted by the EU and their impact on UK businesses in both Northern Ireland and Great Britain.

On the specifics of the regulations we are debating this evening, from these Benches we broadly welcome them as a further pragmatic and temporary step to try to make this complex arrangement work slightly more effectively. As these regulations apply only to sanitary and phytosanitary controls on European Union and rest-of-world goods entering Great Britain from Northern Ireland, we believe that they sharpen the competitive advantage of Northern Ireland traders moving qualifying Northern Ireland goods.

I have three questions. The first is the same as the one the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, asked. Can the Minister say when this long-term approach to these issues is likely to be published and adopted? As she said in her introduction, these temporary measures will apply only until July next year. Can she say how MPs, noble Lords and all Northern Ireland political parties and businesses will be consulted in this process?

My second question is the same as the one the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, asked. Can the Minister say a little more about progress or otherwise on an SPS and veterinary agreement? It is clearly for the new Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in your Lordships’ House to decide its own programme, but it would be very useful if it were to look at some of these issues when it starts work next year.

My third and final question is something I ask every time. Can the Minister explain a little more about how these regulations will be enforced and policed in reality? Other noble Lords have raised this in a different way. I conclude by thanking her once again, and I look forward to hearing her responses.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Dodds of Duncairn, for bringing this regret amendment to the House. I listened to some very powerful speeches by him and his noble friends on both sides of the House.

His Majesty’s loyal Opposition have some significant doubts and concerns about these regulations, given the impact they may have on goods moving from Northern Ireland into Great Britain, but we will not oppose them. We welcome that some goods will continue to have unfettered access to Great Britain, but we are concerned about the non-qualifying goods and the effect this will have on businesses that trade across the Irish Sea.

While the Windsor Framework was a significant improvement on the original protocol, that is not to say that improvements cannot be made wherever necessary. The Opposition will continue to scrutinise the secondary legislation and assess its impact. Can the Minister confirm to the House that the Government will keep these regulations under review and take any action necessary to lighten the burden on businesses trading across the Irish Sea where possible?

The businesses affected by these regulations may need extra support. Can the Minister outline the steps that the Government are taking to give businesses in Northern Ireland the support they need? Indeed, what assessment have the Government made of the effect of these changes on businesses in Great Britain trading with Northern Ireland? How will the Government support that smooth trade?

Goods from Northern Ireland must be traded as freely as possible, and they should not be at an unfair disadvantage. That was at the core of our work when we were in government. We all know that the Windsor Framework was the result of a painstaking negotiation with the EU, but the Government should do everything they can to ensure Northern Ireland’s smooth and unfettered access to the UK internal market. As my honourable friend the Member for Brentwood and Ongar said in the other place:

“The Windsor framework, I believe, is better than the protocol. ‘Safeguarding the Union’ is better than the Windsor framework, but that does not mean that further progress is not possible”.—[Official Report, Commons, 6/12/24; col. 627.]


Does the Minister agree with that assessment?

We look forward to scrutinising the Government’s approach to Northern Ireland policy further, and to the Minister addressing our concerns about smooth trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain and about upholding the importance of biosecurity—biosecurity not just in GB but Northern Ireland for goods that stop there. We will press the Government to bring forward plans to encourage businesses to trade across the sea so that we all benefit across the whole of our United Kingdom.