Outcome of the EU Referendum

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Monday 27th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, I am deeply grateful. Will the noble Baroness give an undertaking to the effect that before even contemplating activating the machinery of Article 50, the Government will first of all take into account the solemn voice of the two legislatures, and that failing to do so would be to abrogate and render nugatory the whole concept of parliamentary sovereignty? It is extremely sad and ironic that in the light of the European Union Act 2011 it is necessary for there to be a referendum and a parliamentary resolution before there can be any acquiescence to change. Indeed, it would be very strange that an act so existential as leaving the Union could take place without a parliamentary decision.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his question but I am afraid I have nothing to add to what I have already said. In the interests of time, I will leave my comments at that.

Syria: UK Military Involvement

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, it is the Cross Benches next.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, I am grateful. I wonder if the noble Earl can kindly tell the House what in public international law is the status that Her Majesty’s Government regard President Assad as occupying, bearing in mind that some two years ago, in respect of all the belligerents that were opposed to President Assad, we accepted a status for each and every one of them—including, as it so happened, ISIL.

Implications of Devolution for England

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, I respectfully invite Her Majesty’s Government not to panic in this matter. There are some 120 Members from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, leaving some 530 Members from English constituencies. Therefore, first, does the noble Baroness agree that there is no immediate danger of English interests being mercilessly swept aside constitutionally? Secondly, will she undertake not to take any steps to create either an English Parliament or an English Parliament within a Parliament unless and until a full, detailed and mature study of the constitutional position has been conducted, thus avoiding some of the ludicrous matters which were brought before the House in the last four years?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

We have no plans for an English Parliament. That is not contained in the Command Paper before us. We have options for addressing the very important issue of English votes for English laws, which has become more pronounced now that more powers have been devolved to Scotland. Clearly I listen very carefully to any advice that I receive from the noble Lord, but this matter has been around for a very long time. There has been a huge amount of thinking on it and we have now got to the point where we have some clear options, one of which we should implement.

Syria: Refugees

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords—order, order—we have not heard from the Liberal Democrat Benches so it is the turn of my noble friend Lady Falkner.

Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament Report: Fusilier Lee Rigby

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, British Muslims want strong counterterrorism measures in this country so that everybody in this country who shares British values, whatever their faith, is safe. That is basically all I need to say to the noble Lord.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, may I raise with the noble Baroness the question of people leaving these shores to join armed formations abroad—and, indeed, in the event of their return, what they might do? Is it or is it not the case that the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 is still in force? If I am correct with regard to that, has any use been made of it in the last half century? Furthermore, have the Government given any thought at all to the question of incorporating any of its provisions in the new legislation now before the House? I regret that I did not give notice of these rather technical matters but it was only when she mentioned foreign enlistment that it rang a distant bell with me.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I regret that I am not able to provide the noble Lord with a comprehensive answer to that question. Probably the best thing would be for me to write to him.

Leader of the House: Cabinet Membership

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, I respectfully put to the noble Baroness the Leader of the House that the Act which limits the number of Cabinet members to 23 essentially creates a first and second division. The first division comprises ex officio members of the Cabinet, and that is a special status. In the 300-year life of the Cabinet as we know it, there has never before been a situation when at least one Member of the Lords, and probably more than one Member, was not an ex officio member. Has the Prime Minister done this out of oversight or out of a deliberate policy in relation to this House?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister clearly has to operate in accordance with the legislation that prescribes how many Cabinet posts can attract a salary. He has made his decisions on his appointments, as he is at liberty to do, and I believe that he has made those decisions properly. I understand that noble Lords want to keep debating this matter but, as there is very little more for me to offer beyond what I have said so far today, I can only repeat what I said: some important points have been made but I am quite clear that the status that the Prime Minister has afforded me accords me to do my job appropriately.

Severe Weather

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

On the noble Lord’s first point, as I have said, this Government are investing more than £2.3 billion on flood defences in this spending review period and the overall investment, when that is combined with local authority and private sector expenditure, is higher than in the previous four years. As for any reductions in budgets, as the noble Lord will know, because he will have heard my honourable friends make the same point, in any reductions to budgets, necessary budget cuts that we have had to make because of economic situations, front-line flooding services are not affected.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, as one who lives near Aberystwyth and is proud, indeed, to have been born in that town, I suggest to the Minister that the situation not just in Aberystwyth but in many other places on the Welsh coast that have been so badly hit is far more desperate than the Government seem to appreciate. The scale of storm destruction is such that it is impossible for local authorities or, indeed, the Welsh Assembly to render proper remedy. Although Westminster exercises sovereignty over the land and nation of Wales, with that sovereignty there is also a high and heavy moral responsibility to assist in situations of crisis such as these.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I understand the point that the noble Lord is raising. In responding to the situation and ensuring that those who are affected are properly supported, we would expect that to be the same whoever is affected and wherever in the United Kingdom they may be. As I have made clear, and as the noble Lord understands, this is a devolved matter. The Government are at the present time introducing the Bellwin scheme. We believe that that is the proper approach and we look to the Welsh Assembly to consider what action it should take.

Human Trafficking

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Thursday 21st March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I refer the noble Lord to the point I made at the beginning about the UKBA now having a team dedicated exclusively to decision-making around victims, which is important in this area. In addition, it is important for me to be clear that the UKBA has a “victims first” attitude. We address the needs of the victim and investigate the crime against them before any consideration is made of an individual’s immigration status. That is secondary in situations such as this.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

I have a background question. As the Minister knows, the Children Act was passed in 1989 and came into force in 1992. Many things have changed since then. Is it intended that there should be a general and comprehensive review of the operation of that statute incorporating the matter raised by my noble and learned friend Lady Butler-Sloss?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am not aware that we have any plans to review that legislation in the way that the noble Lord proposes, but part of what the interdepartmental ministerial group which looks at human trafficking does is continual monitoring of the legislation to see that it is proper and appropriate for tackling this vile crime.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Debate between Baroness Stowell of Beeston and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Monday 18th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As I said in Committee, when we talked about the length of Parliaments being either four or five years, I really do not think that that is the issue. People are not looking for more general elections. They are looking for a system that gives them the confidence that we want to work in their interest.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, I believe that the issues that we are concerned with turn upon three very simple matters. First, the argument against the amendment is seen to be founded on the idea that in some way or another it brings about a revolutionary change in our constitutional situation. It does not. The point has already been made—and due to a late train I am sorry that I was not here when the noble and learned Lord dealt with this matter—that the flexibility is still there, because no Parliament can bind its successor. If this Bill were passed and within three months Parliament, in its wisdom, sought by a majority of one in each House to repeal it, that would be the end of it. No constitutional impediment to that exists at all. So the flexibility is there. Well, you may ask, if that is so, why have the amendment? The argument for it, it seems to me, is not tenuous and indeed it has some merit. It concentrates the mind. It enables a new Parliament in a new situation to look at the circumstances prevailing at that particular time.

My second point—and I hope that I am not making a Second Reading argument now, because I think that is very much the backcloth to this very amendment—is what I would call the William Lovett point. Do you remember the last point in Lovett’s charter—annual general elections? God forbid. But the reason for it was that Lovett and other brave people of his day were convinced that the more you defended a Parliament and a Government from the will of the people, the greater the disservice to humanity and to democracy. If you gave them a certain five-year term rather than a much shorter term, that as far as Lovett was concerned would be a betrayal of democracy. Therefore, one should approach the idea of a five-year full term with very great reservation on that point alone.

My last point is the question where the onus of proof lies. This is a major constitutional change from any point of view—nobody would dispute that. Where is the evidence in support of it? It comes either from an idealistic direction or from a cynical direction. If it comes from an idealistic direction—and I can see that that may be so—it is based upon the theory that there is evidence within, say, the last half century of Prime Ministers beating the gun and going to the country when it was wholly unnecessary to do so. It certainly did not happen in 1935. It did not happen in 1945. There were elections in 1951, 1966 and 1974 that have already been referred to. In each case, the country was crying out for the chance to decide the matter there and then. If there is any criticism to be made about the abuse of the privilege of a Prime Minister to decide the exact date, it is against those Prime Ministers, of more than one party, who have stayed too long rather than against those who have gone to the country too soon. Where then is the case for this amending legislation? Therefore, one doubts whether there might not indeed be some faint cynical reasons for it.