British Sign Language Bill

Debate between Baroness Stedman-Scott and Lord Bruce of Bennachie

2nd reading
Friday 25th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, it is indeed a special day for us, and I am delighted that this Bill has come before your Lordships’ House. I join all noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lord Holmes for bringing forward this important Bill. I pay tribute to the honourable Member for West Lancashire, who has worked tirelessly with my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled People to build such great cross-party support for this Bill.

The Government are committed to supporting all people with a disability, including deaf people, to lead fulfilled, independent lives. For deaf people, this must include the ability to communicate with others through BSL or other forms of deaf communication. As my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled People has said, BSL is a rich, vibrant language in its own right that helps to build a sense of community for many deaf BSL signers. This was made absolutely clear—as the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, has already said—to all who attended last week’s Sign Language Week rally, which had to be moved to Trafalgar Square, organised by the British Deaf Association.

Deaf people from across the country came together to mark the 19th anniversary of the recognition of BSL as a language in its own right by the UK Government. But this year’s rally was filled with a sense of great anticipation that this Bill would place this recognition into law, and we must not let them down. Attendees eagerly watched the Bill’s Third Reading, and the message from Members in the other place was clear: they want us to pass this Bill and for the Government to get on with delivering for BSL signers and the deaf community. This is what we intend to do.

As my noble friend Lord Holmes has set out, this Bill recognises BSL as a language of England, Wales and Scotland and places a duty on the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to issue guidance on the promotion and facilitation of BSL. It also requires the Secretary of State to report on information supplied by ministerial departments regarding their use of BSL. We are going further. Alongside the Bill, my honourable friend the Minister for Disabled people has announced a suite of non-statutory measures that will help promote and facilitate the use of BSL. These include: establishing a non-statutory advisory board of British Sign Language signers to advise the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on matters relating to BSL; examining how we might increase the number of BSL interpreters; reviewing how we might work in DWP to ensure the Access to Work fund better helps BSL signers; and considering how the Government can further facilitate and promote BSL usage. We hope that, alongside these measures, we will see an increase in the use of BSL across society.

Noble Lords have raised a number of questions, which I will seek to address. The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, asked about BSL guidance. As I have said, Clause 3 places a duty on the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to issue guidance on the promotion and facilitation of BSL, which will be developed together with deaf BSL signers as part of the remit of the non-statutory board. Guidance may include advice on reporting requirements, but also on best practice for BSL communications, and could include case studies setting out the value of BSL provision. The intention is that the Government would work with the board of BSL signers, as I have said, to explore the best approaches to ensure that the guidance is targeted at everyday interactions for deaf BSL signers and helps service providers and public authorities adhere to the requirements of the Equality Act 2010, in particular the duty to make reasonable adjustments and the public sector equality duty.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, also raised the issue of the progress of a BSL GCSE, as did the noble Lord, Lord Bruce. I can confirm that the DfE is working closely with subject experts to develop draft subject content for a BSL GCSE. The DfE is also working with Ofqual to ensure that the subject content can be assessed appropriately. The department is aiming to consult publicly on the draft subject content later in 2022. The Minister for Disabled People has written to the Minister for School Standards to better understand if there is any potential to expedite this process.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas, asked about interpretation for local councillors holding surgeries. Councils are required by the Equality Act to make “reasonable adjustments” to accommodate the needs of disabled councillors, who would otherwise be placed in a position of disadvantage compared with non-disabled councillors.

The noble Baroness also raised the important question of whether jobseekers will be able to access BSL. The DWP helps deaf people access our services in a number of ways. The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, raised the point about the video relay service. I will give more detail on that later, but it is available for all DWP services through GOV.UK. For existing deaf customers who require BSL, Jobcentre Plus work coaches are able to book a face-to-face BSL interpreter to come to appointments to help people. If a deaf person attends a jobcentre to seek access to a DWP service, they will be signposted to use the video relay service via GOV.UK and, where necessary, a future appointment can be arranged for a face-to-face appointment with a BSL interpreter.

The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, asked me about the United Nations and the disabled group. I will write to her on that. I thank the noble Baroness for her help in arranging for somebody to teach me to use sign language to say, “I beg to move”. However, I have failed on this occasion because I do not have to say it—so I am saving it for another day.

Perhaps I may just say, in full agreement with the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, and others, that we will never forget the performance of Rose Ayling-Ellis. It lifted our hearts and it has had a profound effect, for which we are all grateful.

I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, for his efforts to promote the issues of deaf people and the various groups that he has worked with. I know that he tabled some legislation before. This has been a long time coming, but we have got there in the end. That is why we must make sure that this Bill passes.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, asked why we do not make BSL an official language and said that the Bill does not go far enough. Other languages of the UK, including English, do not have official recognition, so it would be inappropriate to make an exception for BSL. Welsh is an official language in Wales only. The Bill provides for statutory recognition of BSL as a language, which gives the assurances sought by deaf charities and the BSL signers they represent.

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, raised the important point about Clause 3 on guidance for business and the private sector. Guidance intended for the public sector will be useful to the private sector as it will set out information about BSL form and functions, and set out case studies that are relevant and can be useful to the private sector. He also raised the point about a province being recognised. I did not catch the province, so I hope he will allow me to read Hansard and write to him to confirm the answer—I will be most grateful. I have already made reference to the video relay services that the noble Lord mentioned. Progress has been made in this area. A number of service and telecommunications companies have introduced a video relay service which allows deaf people to communicate with non-British Sign Language signers via an interpreter using video phones.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

I am very grateful and appreciate the development of VRS, but a lot of deaf people are concerned, because they want it for social purposes and these services cost quite a lot of money. I have been pressing for the Government to look at ways of getting affordable access so that deaf people can use it not just for work but for relationships, family and personal reasons. I hope the Minister might take that away.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I will take that back to my colleague the Minister for Disabled People, and write to the noble Lord, and place a copy in the Library for the whole House.

The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, raised the point about the Bill affecting

“the operation of any enactment or rule of law.”

The rationale for Clause 1(2) is to ensure legal certainty so that recognition of BSL will not generate confusion or disputes. In particular, the purpose and effect of Clause 1(2) is to leave the existing balance of legal protections of the Equality Act 2010 unaffected.

The noble Baroness, Lady Merron, asked how broad the guidance and reporting requirements will be. Clause 2 requires the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to regularly report on what each relevant ministerial department detailed in the schedule to the Bill has done to promote and facilitate the use of BSL in its communications with the public. These communications could include public announcements, publication of a plan, strategy or consultation document, or activities promoting its work—for example, press conferences. The reporting requirements will be for UK ministerial departments to comply with, not for individual hospitals or schools. This reporting will give us a much better understanding of how BSL is being used across government and how we can continue to improve communication for BSL signers.

I shall finish by saying two things. First, I too endorse the great work of David Buxton. He has been spoken of with great affection and great dignity and I and my Benches join in that tribute. Let us be absolutely clear: we want this Bill to go through, as it is very important. Expectations are high, commitment is high and, as I said on the previous Private Member’s Bill, if any noble Lord has any issues, please come and see us so that when we get to Committee there will be no amendments and the Bill will pass in time for a great celebration by the people for whom this will make a great change to their lives.