Devolved Administrations: Memorandum of Understanding

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 20th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, first, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Empey, on securing this short but substantive debate regarding a matter that the Government consider of great importance. I was sorry to hear in his opening remarks of his dismay and assure him that it is not “devolve and forget”. I will do my best to answer all noble Lords’ questions accurately and courteously. If I run out of time, I will obviously write to noble Lords to respond to them, but I am not too keen to hide under “writing to people” any more than I have to, for good reason.

The Government have sent a clear message of our commitment to govern for the whole of the UK, working closely with our colleagues in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to foster strong and sustainable relationships. To echo the comments of my noble friend Lord Duncan, who spoke in this House some weeks ago, at present, communities are facing increasing pressures on a range of matters—their economies and national security to name but two. However, I assure all noble Lords that the UK Government remain committed to strengthening our union to ensure that such obstacles do not inhibit progress across the UK.

The Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Offices continue to work to ensure that the best interests of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are properly considered during the development of UK policy and that the UK Government’s responsibilities are represented in those same territories. Further to this work, the UK Governance Group within the Cabinet Office was formed to manage the UK Government’s constitutional and devolution policy. The Government are committed to ensuring they have the right support in place for the constitutional arrangements across the country. The UK Governance Group works closely with colleagues in the devolved Administrations to uphold and implement provisions of the Scotland Act 2017, the Wales Act 2017 and the Belfast agreement.

The memorandum of understanding—MoU—is a written agreement between the UK Government and devolved Administrations that underpins how the UK’s four Administrations work with one another on matters of mutual interest. Supporting the MoU are several supplementary agreements which formalise the Joint Ministerial Committee as a structure for multilateral engagement, including the UK approach to matters relating to EU policy, international relations and financial assistance to industry.

The Government recognise the need to review the memorandum of understanding, not least in the light of the UK’s exit from the European Union. However, this is not a decision for the Government alone. The decision to review the MoU must be taken with the agreement of the four participating Administrations— the UK Government, Scottish Government, Welsh Government and Northern Ireland Executive. We will continue to work together to identify the most appropriate time to do so. I note the importance that the noble Lord places on intergovernmental relations and assure him that the UK Government are committed to positive and productive relations with all devolved Administrations.

I shall say something about the formal structures of intergovernmental relations. There is much to do. The Government have been clear from the start that the devolved Administrations should be fully engaged in the UK’s exit from the EU. The Government are committed to ensuring that constructive engagement with the devolved Administrations continues through formal structures such as the Joint Ministerial Committee and the British-Irish Council, as well as bilaterally between our Ministers and officials. As noble Lords will know, at the apex of the JMC structure is the JMC (Plenary), which is chaired by the Prime Minister and attended by the First Ministers of the devolved Administrations. There are also a number of JMC sub-committees such as the JMC (EU Negotiations) and JMC Europe, which concern themselves with the negotiation process and ongoing EU business respectively.

Important progress was made at the most recent JMC (EU Negotiations) in October 2017. The committee discussed priorities for the future relationship with the EU and agreed the principles that will underpin common UK frameworks. The UK Government are currently working with the devolved Administrations to arrange another meeting of the JMC (EU Negotiations) before Christmas. Additionally, the British-Irish Council met in Jersey on 9 and 10 November, which presented another important opportunity to discuss the UK’s exit from the EU.

However, those are not the only ways that the Government engage with the devolved Administrations. For example, the First Secretary of State and the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union have been engaging bilaterally with their counterparts since the general election this year. Noble Lords may also have noted the bilateral meetings between the Prime Minister and First Ministers of Wales and Scotland in recent weeks, which have been reported on positively by all participants. At official level, joint work has been ongoing on matters including the establishment of common frameworks to address the repatriation of powers following the UK’s exit from the EU. Though not as visible as ministerial engagement, the importance of joint working between Administrations should not be overlooked. Ensuring that the principles by which our Administrations work together are fit for purpose, and can ensure the continuation of positive and productive relationships, is key.

As powers are repatriated from the EU, additional requirements will be placed on the existing structures for intergovernmental relations. It is important that we continue to engage positively, as at the last JMC on EU negotiations, on the establishment of frameworks to manage these powers, which may in turn require consideration of our existing governance structures. I hope this will give noble Lords some confidence and assurance that the points they have been raising about Brexit and its impact on the memorandum of understanding will be taken seriously and given due consideration.

Noble Lords may be interested to know that there have been six revisions of the MoU since its inception. It is important that in conducting any review the agreements remain adaptable enough to address the interests of the four participating Administrations. I stress that the four Administrations must agree to any revision of the MoU by consensus. The Government anticipate that a future Joint Ministerial Committee (Plenary) will provide the necessary forum to discuss the timing of any such review. Discussions on the date of the next JMC (Plenary) are currently ongoing, and we are working towards a meeting early in the new year.

I turn to the question of Northern Ireland at the moment. Effective intergovernmental relations can function only with the full participation of each Administration. I will therefore briefly address the situation in Northern Ireland and the current lack of an Executive. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Prime Minister are fully committed to ensuring that, as we establish our negotiating position, the unique interests of Northern Ireland are protected and advanced. They have a clear understanding of the range of views from across Northern Ireland and will continue to champion Northern Ireland’s interests over the coming months.

The Government believe that all four UK Administrations should be present during meetings of the JMC, and we very much hope that this includes the Northern Ireland Executive. However, our focus remains on the full restoration of devolution to Stormont, and we will not speculate on any other outcomes.

While discussions on the matter continue, UK government officials continue to engage with colleagues in the Northern Ireland Civil Service to ensure that Northern Ireland’s interests are properly represented and that civil servants continue to attend forums such as the JMC.

I now come to some of the questions that noble Lords have put to me. I am conscious of the time, but I will do my best to answer them.

One seemingly burning issue for all noble Lords, not least the noble Lord, Lord Empey, is scrutiny and accountability. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has set out that he will be writing to the Northern Ireland Comptroller and Auditor-General to ask that any reports that the Northern Ireland Audit Office produces relating to improper or poor value-for-money expenditure in the absence of an Executive be sent to him. In turn, he will ensure that these are laid in the Libraries of both Houses. He will also be asking Northern Ireland departmental permanent secretaries to draw their responses to his attention, so that those too can be laid in both Libraries. In that way, a proportionate approach will be put in place to allow for continued democratic accountability in this unfortunate period without a devolved Government. I hope that also answers the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bew.

Let me deal with one more point about accountability. As the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland made clear in taking through the Northern Ireland Budget Bill last week, we recognise that accountability and oversight are important, and it will be for the Northern Ireland Civil Service and those such as the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which oversees spending, to be satisfied as to the discharge of their relevant duties here. Were any irregularities to be identified, I have asked them to be drawn to my attention, and I would in turn draw them to the attention of the House. But I should be clear to the House that strict equality duties are placed on all public authorities in Northern Ireland, particularly via the Northern Ireland Act 1998, and I am confident that the Northern Ireland Civil Service will act in accordance with those duties in making spending decisions for the whole community.

I have run out of time on this, my first outing, and I have a lot to learn, but I am grateful to noble Lords for their contribution to what has been a fascinating debate. I share noble Lords’ view that careful consideration must be given to the intergovernmental structures as we approach the UK’s exit from the European Union. I hope that noble Lords will be assured that the Government consider effective intergovernmental relations to be of great importance to our United Kingdom. We will continue to work closely with our colleagues in the devolved Administrations to find an appropriate time to conduct the review.

I hope that I have responded courteously and accurately to all noble Lords. I will ensure that noble Lords are written to on those questions that I have not answered orally.

House adjourned at 7.28 pm.