Treaty Scrutiny: Working Practices (EUC Report)

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2020 Grand Committee

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, it is quite rare to be able to respond directly to another Member in Grand Committee, unlike some other parliamentary business in normal times when we can jump up and respond. I had planned to start by talking about this dystopian world in which the working practice seems to be to sit in little booths—we could be in a call centre, calling people to ask, “Were you mis-sold a treaty? Did you sign up to the European Communities Act 1972 by mistake?” For people watching on television or merely reading Hansard, it is perhaps not quite clear how the Grand Committee is working in the current hybrid system. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, referred to it as a hostile environment. That might be the only point of her speech with which I agreed.

I obviously fit into the category of noble Lords who are rather disappointed that the United Kingdom has left the European Union. However, I do not believe for one moment that the need to scrutinise treaties and the importance we are giving to that this afternoon is simply because we are leaving the European Union and Members are unhappy about that. It is precisely the opposite. The clarion call of the Vote Leave campaign was “Vote leave, take back control”. I do not believe for one moment that the people who voted on 23 June 2016, or in the general election last year, thought that they were voting for Mr Dominic Cummings to set the agenda, nor that taking back control meant that Parliament would become supine. The idea that Parliament should become more supine the further we get from membership of the European Union is quite wrong. The role of your Lordships’ House is as a revising Chamber, but it is also to hold the Government to account. A fortiori, it is the role of the House of Commons to hold the Government to account. What each of these reports is saying is that, in the context of a post-Brexit world where international treaties have ever-greater scope, it is essential that Parliament plays that role.

Now, it is not clear what the current Prime Minister thinks about scrutiny. There has been reference to the previous Government’s comments in February 2019. The Lords Library also notes that, in response to the Constitution Committee’s report of July last year, Theresa May’s Government said that they thought that the CRaG Act remained a “viable legal framework”. However, they agreed that information sharing between the Government and Parliament could be improved, and they committed to

“engaging with whatever parliamentary scrutiny structures the Houses implement”.

That is our role.

As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, rightly said earlier, it should not be for government to decide which amendments are scrutinised. It should not be for government to set the agenda on scrutiny or set the timeframe; it should be for Parliament to do that. Parliament is not some beast seeking information; Parliament is looking to make sure that any treaties that the United Kingdom Government sign are in the best interests of this country. However, looking at the changes currently being suggested for the withdrawal agreement legislation that went through last year after extensive scrutiny, one might wonder whether this Government take very much notice at all.

Global Human Rights Sanctions Regulations 2020

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 29th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, like other Members who have spoken, I welcome these regulations. However, along with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, I have some reservations. The Minister pre-empted one issue I would have raised, about co-operation with other countries. The Government may seek to have a global Britain and vaunt the idea of having the first autonomous sanctions regime, but it is important that sanctions are imposed jointly with other countries where possible.

I would be interested in the Minister’s thoughts about the scope and facilities the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, as it will named in future, will have in order to deal with the cases that could be brought forward. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, has asked, we need to know when people can submit evidence. Has the Foreign Office considered the ramifications and amount of work that could be coming forward? We have already heard this evening of cases in Zimbabwe, China, Colombia, and there are many others. We are looking at issues perhaps against individuals, against non-state actors, or as my noble friend Lord Bruce, said, the Kremlin. Will the Minister tell us what resources the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has to deal with this? Are mechanisms in place to have the sort of engagement with our European and Five Eyes partners to enable us to work effectively? It is important we have this regime and that Her Majesty’s Government pay as much attention as possible to human rights questions.

Finally, how far might the Government be willing to consider the situation of the Uighurs in China? This is a major issue and I understand the Minister is not able to speculate on specific cases. However, a general response would be welcome.

China

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, in responding to the right reverend Prelate, the Minister said that the Government are calling out China over human rights abuses. That is not sufficient. Given that China, despite being led by a so-called Communist Party, relies on the global system of international trade, what scope is there for naming companies that rely on Uighur labour and trying to have a regime whereby people simply do not buy products produced by forced labour?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of the issue of modern slavery, led by my right honourable friend the former Prime Minister, ensuring that rights of workers, wherever they may be in the world, are fully protected. I disagree with the noble Baroness: I think we have been very clear and frank, and we have led on the issue of the persecution of Uighurs in Xinjiang and we have done so consistently over a long period.

Global Human Rights Sanctions Regime

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 9th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, may I say first that I am missing the noble Lord from across the Chamber? It is good to see him virtually. Nevertheless, I had thought that the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, would pose the questions from Her Majesty’s Opposition. On the point he raises, he will be aware that I mentioned yesterday that I believe there will be a debate in the other place on 16 July. We will be speaking through the usual channels to see how we can constitute an early debate after the return of the House in the autumn.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, in his initial response the Minister stressed UK-autonomous sanctions. I note from the Explanatory Memorandum on the regulations that, in the past, the UK’s implementation of UN and other sanctions has been through the European Communities Act, now rescinded. To what extent do the Government plan to work with the European Union in putting forward sanctions? Clearly, multilateral co-operation would make sanctions even more effective.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the wider European sanctions, we continue to work with our European partners. Indeed, during the transition period whatever has been agreed with them continues to apply. There is also a rollover of many of the sanctions that have been applied through the European scheme. But as the noble Baroness knows, the European Union does not have a specific human rights sanctions regime. We will work constructively as it seeks to develop that. As I said yesterday and have said before, sanctions work effectively only when we work with like-minded partners and, after our departure from the European Union, we should reflect that important partnership.

Hong Kong National Security Legislation

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness’s concern. It is important that we value the incredible contribution of all our communities to the United Kingdom’s progress and prosperity, and the British Chinese community is reflective of that ambition and contribution. On the issue of further work within the international arena, as I already alluded to, we are exploring what more can be done. We have achieved a great deal in the time. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about a strategy. I believe, having looked at this brief very closely, that, domestically and internationally, we have had a strategy in place, and we will continue to apply that pressure. The diplomatic channel remains open with China and we will continue to work with China bilaterally to raise these issues as well.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the offer to BNO passport holders and citizens is welcome, but for those who do not have passports—about nine in 10 of those who are eligible—what mechanism is in place for the Government to recognise them if they come and seek to take up residence in the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I believe I have already addressed this issue. The route, or the programme which has been announced, is specifically for those who currently hold or qualify for BNO status and their family dependents. As to others, each case will be looked at on its merits. If someone comes to the United Kingdom, from wherever they may be in the world, and seeks sanctuary or asylum in the United Kingdom, that case will be looked at on its merits.

Korea

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 30th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we continue to work to ensure peace on the peninsula. He is quite right to say that both the United States and China have a key role to play. We continue to liaise with both nations bilaterally and, more importantly, through the Security Council. On his second point about Magnitsky sanctions and the regime, as I said earlier, we are proposing to bring those forward before the Summer Recess, and we are in the final stages of doing that now.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister has talked about the Government supporting sanctions but also about providing humanitarian aid. What assessment have the Government made of the relative balance between the two in the context of North Korea?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the sanctions are not targeted against the North Korean people, and we will continue to support delivery of humanitarian aid to the most vulnerable in that country. Denuclearisation will assist in that respect.

Yemen: Humanitarian Aid Funding

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am very much aware of its work there, and it underlines the importance of a collaborative approach on the ground. Some 80% of the population of Yemen needs assistance, and that applies very much to the Covid issue. We also need the involvement of the different parties to the conflict to ensure that we can provide the healthcare support that is required to deal with the Covid challenge. DfID estimates that up to 100,000 people will be impacted directly by Covid, and the death rate will correspond to that. The issue is acute, and we need to act now.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister says that we need to act now, and the Government’s pledge of £160 million is most welcome. Can he confirm that that money will be paid immediately, so that the charities working in Yemen and the UN are able to continue their work without a gap?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness that we are working on that, and I believe that very shortly we will be able to release the first tranche, which will be 30% of the funding. We are imploring other countries which have made pledges, not just at this conference but last year, to step up and make sure that the moneys are passed on to the UN, so that we can make a difference on the ground.

Syria

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 30th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to raise this. The Covid-19 pandemic around the world has shown the interdependency of states across the piece. We are working multilaterally to ensure that anyone, wherever they are in the world, benefits from what we hope will be a solution found through a vaccine. In the interim, we are providing humanitarian aid. I am proud that we have already given £744 million of aid for these causes, including to organisations such as the World Health Organization. We will continue to work with Russia, as we have previously, through the UN and particularly on the Security Council, to see how we can work together to find lasting peace in Syria.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the international aid that has been offered is clearly welcome. However, given that the health infrastructure in Idlib has been so badly damaged, will the Government do more to hold the Syrian Government to account for the attacks on the health facilities and make sure that they are indeed held accountable under international law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is right to raise this issue. We have condemned the offensive by Syria in Idlib, supported in part by Russia. At the beginning of the year there were flagrant violations of international law by Syria that lacked basic human decency. We hold the Syrian regime to account. It has been responsible for using chemical weapons on its own population, and that is why we do not believe that President Assad should be part of any future solution, although ultimately that will be a decision for the Syrian people.

Hong Kong

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend Lord Alton for bringing this debate and for his ongoing commitment to raising the issues of China and Hong Kong. I say “my noble friend” advisedly. I have not slipped into the wrong Benches; I think of the noble Lord as a friend.

Like the right reverend Prelate, I speak with some diffidence this afternoon. Hong Kong is not my area of expertise, and in your Lordships’ House it is always a little dangerous to speak from a position of no expertise. In particular, I am aware that—apart from former governors—we have young Hong Kongers watching us today. I agreed to speak precisely because, like my noble friend Lord Chidgey, I started receiving emails. Some probably came to all Members of your Lordships’ House. One came from somebody I knew, no longer resident in Hong Kong, who said, “I want you to make clear to Parliament what the real situation is like in Hong Kong”.

My sense is that noble Lords contributing to this debate need no lessons on what the situation is like in Hong Kong, but I felt that so many people were writing that it was important, as an ordinary Member of the Lords, to take a bit more time to find out what is happening in Hong Kong and at least raise my voice in support of those people in Hong Kong seeking what so many young people in the United Kingdom want. They want freedom, democracy and autonomy. After all, what have we been doing for the last three and a half years but trying to talk about freedom, democracy and autonomy, albeit in a slightly different format?

The situation with Hong Kong is a sui generis case. If what is happening in Hong Kong were happening in mainland China, the Chinese authorities would simply say, “This is about our sovereign territory. Please go away. We don’t interfere in your politics. Please don’t interfere in ours”. But the situation with the Sino-British joint declaration is different.

One of my questions to the Minister is: to what extent do the Government really feel they can play a part? In answer to my noble friend Lady Northover on 7 October, he said the Government are,

“fully committed to upholding Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy and its rights and freedoms as enshrined in the ‘one country, two systems’ framework”.—[Official Report, 7/10/19; col. 1903.]

How do Her Majesty’s Government plan to do this? We have not so far seen much evidence of it.

Among the other areas that have not been much discussed today are fake news and suicides. The noble Lord, Lord Carrington, said that there have not yet been any fatalities, but various people have said in their emails that what has changed in recent months is the number of unexplained suicides: people who appear to have perhaps fallen from a building, but nobody saw or heard them fall. Is it possible for Her Majesty’s Government to ask what is happening with this and whether the rule of law is being upheld? There are clearly questions about people dying in unexplained circumstances.

We are in a very difficult time. Several Members of your Lordships’ House have already mentioned residency for British nationals overseas, but there is a clear disparity among Hong Kongers. Some have BNO status, some have BOC status and some born after 1997 have neither status. They would not have a right of abode even if Her Majesty’s Government decided to give BNO citizens the right to reside in the United Kingdom.

What are Her Majesty’s Government able to do about the rights of Hong Kong citizens? Clearly it is vital that Hong Kong becomes again a place where people want to remain and exercise their rights under the Sino-British agreement. However, if that is not possible, what guarantees can be given to Hong Kong citizens, whatever their original nationality? If we have one country, two systems, there should not be three or four different citizenships.

Syria: Withdrawal of US Troops

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I challenge the noble Lord; I do not agree with him. It is not we who have made any declarations; it is the United States. It is entitled to make decisions of its own. The United Kingdom remains a committed partner to ensuring that we bring peace and stability to Syria. As I have said, we stand by the SDF and our Kurdish partners, in both in Syria and Iraq. That position is clear and I am not sure why the noble Lord is so confused.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, asked what representations Her Majesty’s Government are making to the Turkish Government as well. Clearly, the United States has a sovereign right to withdraw its troops, but Turkey remains a NATO ally. Do we not have some leverage to talk to Turkish leaders to try to ensure that their actions against the Kurds do not lead to any further reprisals, going beyond what is happening in Syria in any case?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Baroness. She is quite right to say that Turkey is a partner in NATO. We provide continued support for many Syrian refugees who have taken refuge in Turkey, which has supported the Kurds and other refugees from Syria. We will continue to raise our concerns. On this specific issue, the rights of the Kurdish community—indeed, any minority community—should be part and parcel of any future settlement found in Syria, as we continue to campaign for greater stability, and in representation in Iraq.