Iran

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I start by paying tribute first to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, for bringing the issue of Iran and, in particular, concerns about dual nationals, especially Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, back to the Chamber, and secondly to my noble friend Lady Northover. As my noble friend Lord Purvis of Tweed pointed out, while she was our foreign affairs spokesperson in the Lords, she raised these issues on 20 occasions.

I also pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, for yet again bringing to the Chamber’s awareness the concerns of nationals in another country—people working as journalists for the BBC Persian service and people working to get the truth out, who are very often the interpreters on whose behalf she is speaking. It is very easy to think that we are focusing on just one or two very narrow issues. Understanding the difficulty of journalists in speaking truth to power and getting a message out in Persian is important. So although slightly beyond the remit of this debate on the JCPOA and dual nationals, those issues are important. Will the Minister say what support the Government are giving to the BBC Persian service?

From these Benches, I support the JCPOA, as did the opening speakers. Later in the debate, slight concerns were expressed, but at the beginning I thought every speaker was going to say almost the same thing: that the JCPOA was a very important agreement. Like my noble friend Lord Purvis, the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, and the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, I was a member of the International Relations and Defence Committee when it looked at nuclear non-proliferation. As the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, pointed out, the JCPOA was not good just for Iran. It was good for security and non-proliferation. We heard from the noble Lord, Lord Austin, that Iran has breached the agreement. It has, but what signal did the United States under Donald Trump send by pulling out of the JCPOA? As the noble Lord, Lord Browne, pointed out, President Biden does not seem to have deviated very much from the actions of President Trump. Can the Minister tell us what conversations he, the Foreign Secretary or the Prime Minister have had with President Biden or with Blinken about the JCPOA and getting the United States back on board?

The rhetoric of candidate Biden, Senator Biden, when he ran for the presidency and what is happening how may not be as in sync as they might be. Given that the United Kingdom is so keen to have global reach, part of that surely has to be in our negotiations with the United States. If we want the JCPOA to function, the E3 are important, but ensuring that the United States is back at the table is crucial. I very strongly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, that the UK’s position has been about active diplomacy and sanctions. What sort of active diplomacy are the Government pursuing at present, not just to get the US back to the table, but to get Iran back to the table? In particular, what work is the new Foreign Secretary doing to ensure that the rights of dual nationals are being secured? As we have heard, we are now on the fourth Foreign Secretary who has been dealing with Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. When he was Foreign Secretary, the Prime Minister’s words were perhaps not always as diplomatic as they might have been. Can we hope that Liz Truss will do a better job?

It is vital that we understand that some of Iran’s actions, not just in uranium enrichment but in human rights and perhaps torture, need to be looked at so that we understand, and we would like the Government to show, that while it is important that we get Iran back to the table, we also should not be afraid to call it out when there are concerns on torture.

My final point picks up on the points from the noble Lords, Lord Dubs and Lord Lamont, at the start of this debate. If the UK has a debt of £400 million to Iran and we want to show it that we are serious about our commitments, surely we should look at resolving that debt so that we can say that we have done everything we should and we are now holding it to account to deliver on the JCPOA and on the rights of dual nationals.

Social Security (Up-rating of Benefits) Bill

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 13th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, talked about a Trojan horse. With the Trojan horse bearing the Greeks, at least those in Troy thought they were getting something that was beneficial. With this Bill, I am wondering what the benefit could possibly be to anybody.

The Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell, suggested that the Bill is about fairness, but I suggest that there is something rather more insidious here. The Bill is allegedly to make a change for a year. The same has been said about overseas aid. The same person, perhaps, has been drafting memos to Ministers saying that this is all because of Covid and is for just one year. However, for those people who will lose the uplift for this one year, just like for those people overseas who will lose the benefits of overseas aid “for just this one year”, this does not feel fair. It feels incredibly painful.

My real concern is this: how can anybody be sure that this so-called one-off proposal is one-off? As the Minister has already told the House, it is not exactly a one-off because the Government had a one-off change last year, when they said that they wanted to change in order to be more generous. I am not quite sure in what way they were being generous last year. As I understand it, the triple lock has three elements. The earnings component was negative last year and inflation was at 0.5%, but the 2.5% uplift would have been in place anyway, so I am not sure why any change was required. Perhaps the proposals for 2022-23 are indeed a one-off.

All the reasons that the Secretary of State has given for the proposals relate to Covid. They all seem to suggest that the potential rise in wages or earnings of around 8% is because of the return to work from furlough and the end of the Covid arrangements. In that sense, the Secretary of State might be right. She said that the rate of increase in earnings is “unprecedented” and a

“distorted reflection of earnings growth.”—[Official Report, Commons, 7/9/21; col. 185.]

How has she come up with this assertion? Is she sure of it? Can the Minister explain to the House whether the Secretary of State has done this analysis herself or engaged somebody else to analyse how far the increase in earnings in 2021 is associated with Covid? Could it not be that some of the rise in earnings is because of Brexit? After all, many of the EU nationals working in the United Kingdom before Covid, which just about coincided with Brexit and began just before the end of the transition period, have not come back to work here, and employers are now being urged to increase wages, particularly for those who drive heavy goods vehicles, for example. That is not about Covid. It is about the long-term consequences of Brexit. Nobody can claim that that is the impact of a year.

If those consequences are indeed for the medium to long term, can the Minister explain to the House what preparations the Government are making for the scenario in which earnings continue to rise in what the Secretary of State might think of as “unprecedented” or “distorted” ways? What safety and security can she give to pensioners who thought they were supported by the triple lock that they will not be told next year, yet again, “This is another anomaly and we just have to make a change for just another year”? Once a precedent has been set, the danger is that it becomes a tradition and never changes.

Of course, that does not happen the other way round. On the temporary uplift in universal credit, the Government said, “Oh, we’ve got to take that away because it was only temporary”. I believe that the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud, will talk about this in more detail later in the debate, but I add my support to anybody in your Lordships’ House and elsewhere who will make a case for keeping the £20 uplift because taking money away from people—particularly the most vulnerable in society—is far more difficult than if you never gave them that £20 in the first place.

Many of the people who have benefited from the £20 uplift were not on universal credit before the start of the current crisis. They have had to go and seek universal credit only since the start of the pandemic. It is very easy for the Secretary of State to say, “They can work a little bit longer; they can do more hours.” But they might already be working as many hours as are legally possible. They need the support, and we should think about being generous.

I have a few questions for the Minister. There is not an impact assessment on these proposals, because we are told it is just for one year, so an impact assessment is not required. It may not be required, but it would be good practice, and it would help many of us making these decisions to understand what the impact is going to be. Perhaps the impact will not be as great as some of us fear. If pensioners who are concerned about the loss of the triple lock could be reassured, surely that would be in even the Government’s interest. So, could the Minister explain why there is not going to be an impact assessment and whether it would not be a good idea to have one?

The triple lock, a very good policy brought in by the coalition—originally a Liberal Democrat proposal—was so good that the Conservatives put it in their manifesto for 2019. So it is a government pledge. Members of your Lordships’ House, if asked to support the triple lock, would presumably feel honour bound under the Salisbury/Addison convention to support it. How can we then be asked to turn away from it? Why should we? As a Member of the Opposition Benches, I could think it is great that a Government are not delivering on their manifesto pledges; as a Liberal Democrat, I know all too well the difficulties that can face a political party that turns away from its manifesto pledges. But as a Member of your Lordships’ House—somebody who is tasked with legislating on behalf of the most vulnerable—surely it is incumbent on me, and every Member of your Lordships’ House, not to play politics but to think about the implications of turning our back on this pledge.

I understand that 8% might be too much to increase pensions by this year, but perhaps a middle way could be found. Could the Minister please think about that, take it back to her department, talk to the Secretary of State and consider whether a slightly better proposal could be brought back and whether amendments could be brought forward in Committee? If the Government do not bring amendments, the Opposition Benches will and perhaps some Members of her own Benches will as well.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken today. Their contributions have been eloquent and focused. The House has great knowledge of and experience in pensions and social security, which has truly been demonstrated today.

The debate has been wide-ranging and has covered a number of topics. I want to address some of the key points that were raised. If I do not manage to cover them all, noble Lords have an undertaking that I will write after this Second Reading and we will meet again, when they will have further opportunity to drill down into the detail.

I reiterate that this Bill is not concerned, although noble Lords are, with benefits linked to prices, such as universal credit. Uprating decisions for those benefits will be made under the existing provisions in the Social Security Administration Act 1992 as part of the Secretary of State’s annual uprating review in the autumn. The UC points that noble Lords have made are out of scope of the Bill, but out of respect for those who have raised the issues, I will endeavour to respond to them all. They will then be brought before both Houses through the annual uprating order, which is subject to the affirmative statutory instrument procedure and it would not be right for me to pre-empt that review.

The Bill sets aside the link between earnings growth and the uprating of the basic state pension, the full rate of the new state pension, the standard minimum guarantee in pension credit and survivors’ benefits in industrial death benefit. It does this for 2022-23, and for 2022-23 only. In place of the earnings link, it requires the Secretary of State to increase the relevant pensions at least in line with price inflation, or by 2.5%, whichever is higher. We have discussed the reasons for this approach linked to the unique effects of the Covid-19 pandemic over the last two years of earnings growth.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, raised the 1979 pension level. It is difficult to make comparisons back to 1979, when price indexation was introduced—the pensions landscape has changed significantly since then. She also asked whether the state pension was fit for purpose. The new state pension forms a clear foundation for individuals’ private savings to provide for the retirement they want. Together, the new state pension and automatic enrolment to workplace pensions provide a robust system for retirement provision for decades to come. The overall trend in the percentage of pensioners living in poverty is a dramatic fall over recent decades: there are 200,000 fewer pensioners in absolute poverty, both before and after housing costs, than in 2009-10, and we want to maintain that achievement.

The phasing out of the triple lock was raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Drake, my noble friends Lady Altmann and Lady Stowell, and the noble Lord, Lord Davies. After that, the legislation will revert to the existing requirement to increase these rates at least in line with earnings growth. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, suggests that this may change because of Brexit. No, the link with earnings will apply.

I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, for her commitment to the more mature in our society and her consistent efforts to represent them. The triple lock commitment was raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady Greengross, Lady Drake and Lady Smith, my noble friend Lady Stowell and the noble Lord, Lord Davies. The Bill needs to be seen in the context of the Covid-19 pandemic and the Government’s approach over the two years of the pandemic. After this year, the legislation will revert to the existing requirement to uprate at least by earnings growth, and the Government’s triple lock manifesto commitment remains in place—there is no turning back.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock, Lady Lister and Lady Smith, raised the possibility of a poverty impact assessment. They asked whether the department had produced an assessment of the effects on pensioner poverty of increasing these rates by 2.5% in 2021-22 and then by 2.5% or in line with inflation, whichever is higher, in 2022-23. The department collects and publishes a wide range of data on income and poverty, which are released annually in the reports on Households Below Average Incomes and a report with estimates of pensioner poverty covering 2021-22 and 2022-23 will be published in 2023 and 2024 respectively. In the absence of actual data, the only way to provide an assessment would be to forecast and model how many pensioners might have their income lifted above the various low-income levels under an earnings uprating versus an inflation uprating. Assumptions would need to made about how each individual pensioner’s income will change in the future under each scenario. This would require making assumptions about, for example, how each pensioner might change their behaviour around other sources of income, such as draw-down of income from investments or a change in earnings when faced with different amounts of state pension, which is virtually impossible to do with accuracy. These projected incomes would then need to be compared to projections of the various income thresholds, which are themselves extremely uncertain.

For absolute poverty, the threshold is increased each year by inflation during that particular year. As demonstrated in recent months, inflation is currently extremely volatile and there is a high level of uncertainty about what its level is likely to be over the next year. For relative poverty, the threshold is determined by changes in median income across the whole population. Given the volatility in the economy and labour market, again this is impossible to do accurately. Therefore, there is a very high risk that any analysis seeking to forecast the number of pensioners moving above or below these projected poverty levels is likely to be misleading, due both to uncertainty about the economy and pensioners’ behavioural response to various levels of state pension.

I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, has been waiting for this figure: drumroll—I am going to give it to her now. She asked specifically how many couples in receipt of universal credit include a partner in receipt of a state pension. We estimate this number to be around 50,000 mixed-age couples claiming universal credit in 2022-23.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock, Lady Janke, Lady Drake, Lady Greengross and Lady Lister, and my noble friend Lady Noakes, all raised the issue of pension credit take-up. We have had debates about this in the House and I promised to take action, which we have done. I know how passionate all noble Lords are about increasing pension credit take-up—I am in that club too. The Government are working with partners to raise awareness of pension credit and the department conducted a media day in June with support from Age UK and the BBC, in particular. We continue that engagement with the BBC, and I met the Minister for Pensions and the director-general of the BBC a few weeks ago to discuss how we can do even more to encourage people to claim what they are entitled to. I am no expert in social media, but I will take away the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, and raise it. Furthermore, the Minister for Pensions and I held a stakeholder round table in May. Following that, the department established a working group involving organisations such as Age UK, Independent Age and British Telecom, as well as the BBC, to explore innovative ways to reach eligible pensioners. The group will meet again on 19 October.

We are also improving our direct communications. Earlier this year, more than 11 million pensioners in Great Britain received information about pension credit and this highlighted that an award of pension credit, as has already been said, can open the door to a range of other benefits, such as housing benefit, help with council tax and heating bills and help with NHS costs, as well as a free TV licence for the over-75s. We will continue to do this work and will be encouraging people in every way we can to claim their entitlements, building on some promising recent figures. According to the latest data, for the financial year ending in 2019, 77% of the total amount of the guarantee credit—the safety-net element of pension credit—that could have been claimed was claimed, up from 66% two years previously.

My noble friend Lady Altmann and the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, raised the possibility of a review of the triple lock. I must say that the Government have no plans to undertake a review; we are committed to the triple lock for the remainder of this Parliament.

An important issue raised by many noble Lords concerns a different measure of earnings. Several noble Lords asked why the Secretary of State does not use her discretion under the existing legislation to use an adjusted index of earnings growth to exclude the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic, or why the Government did not include such an adjusted index in th Bill. The answer is that there is no robust methodology for establishing such an adjusted index. The existence of such a methodology would be crucial in assessing the degree of legal risk attached to veering from the conventional index, which continues to provide an accurate reflection of growth in earnings.

 

The Office for National Statistics has not published official statistics for any alternative estimates of earnings growth; it has published just a range of estimates of the potential scale of base and compositional effects caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. However, it has concluded that there is no robust method for producing a single figure for a measure of underlying wage growth that accurately takes account of temporary effects due to the pandemic that all experts could reach agreement on. This lack of an agreed robust analytical basis for an alternative figure means that there is a legal risk in breaking with precedent in the measure of earnings used. I am quite sure that we will wish to discuss this further between the Bill’s stages—and we will.

My noble friend Lady Altmann has been a great advocate on the issue of pensioner poverty among women; in fact, she was referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Sikka. She asked about reforms to the state pension. These reforms have put measures in place to improve state pension outcomes for most women. More than 3 million women stand to receive an average of £550 more per year by 2030 as a result of the recent reforms. Women live longer than men on average and therefore receive pension payments for longer.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock—she is a noble friend—was very animated in her contribution. Indeed, she was racing away; one of the things I have to work hard on is keeping up with her. We might have a chat about that another time. She asked whether wage increases are racing against inflation, am I correct? The response is that wages are increasing at 8.3% while inflation is at 3.3%, so wages are much higher. I am sure the noble Baroness will give me a list.

My noble friend Lady Noakes raised the issue of relative versus absolute poverty. The Government believe that absolute poverty is a better measure of living standards than relative poverty, which can provide counterintuitive results. The absolute poverty line moves with inflation so provides a better measure of how the income of pensioners compares with the actual cost of living.

My noble friends Lady Altmann and Lord Flight, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Drake and Lady Janke, asked about state pension comparisons with EU countries and others. This comparison is misleading due to differences in the pension systems. There are many factors to take into account, including different tax systems, different healthcare systems, different pension ages, the cost of living, access to occupational pensions and the availability of other social security benefits, as well as the provision of services and goods free to pensioners or at concessionary rates. In her contribution, the noble Baroness, Lady Janke, commented that other countries get them, so I suspect that this is another issue on the agenda for further discussion.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, and my noble friends Lady Altmann and Lady Stowell asked about the state pension versus the basic state pension. The new state pension system has been designed so that no more money is being spent now than under the previous one, and care has been taken to ensure fairness to both groups while delivering a sustainable system for the future.

The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, and my noble friends Lady Stowell and Lady Stroud raised the issue of the UC taper rate. All I can say at the moment is that no decision has been taken on it.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked why we needed a Bill last year. The Social Security Administration Act 1992 does not refer to 2.5% and, for the benefits in this Bill, refers specifically to earnings growth. Without suspending that link, the state pension would have been frozen.

My noble friend Lady Stowell referred to the state pension for over-75s. We are committed to supporting all pensioners, including those over 75. We spend more than £129 billion—5.7% of GDP—on benefits for pensioners, which includes spending on the state pension. It is also supported by further measures for older people, including the provision of a free bus pass, free prescriptions, winter fuel payments and cold weather payments.

My noble friend Lord Flight asked for clarification on the year. It is the CPI in the year to September 2021, so it will be 2021 data—the most up-to-date data we can use—for our hard IT deadline in November.

Now we come on to the £20 uplift. Virtually all noble Lords made reference to this. To start with, I must confess and confirm again—I know that this will rankle—that this was a temporary measure. People knew when it started that it would end. We extended it for six months, and it was an important measure to help people facing the greatest financial disruption to get the support they needed. In line with other emergency support that we rolled out at pace, the uplift helped protect livelihoods through the worst of the pandemic. The support we put in place did what it was intended to do, despite the biggest recession in 300 years. It is worth noting that unemployment is much lower than feared, at 4.6%, and for some, household savings are £197 billion higher. The poorest working households were supported the most.

I have been asked to make reference to something mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. No money is being taken away because we budgeted to spend a certain amount. The increase of 2.5% or the rate of inflation, whichever is higher, will be applied. I just want to give a reminder that the Lib Dem Minister at the time, Steve Webb, supported this in legislation.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

The Minister said that I was wrong and that no money has been taken away. I meant that it has been taken away from the individuals who benefited from the £20-a-week uplift but will now receive £20 a week less.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am sorry if I did not make that point clearly. I agree with the noble Baroness. People were told that it would be there for a period of time but was not for ever. We extended it because the pandemic went on; we have therefore paid up what we committed to pay. We did not say that we would give it for ever but then took it away.

Afghanistan: Women and Girls

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that we are working on the specifics of what was proposed, and from other groups as well. I know the organisation very well, and in coming weeks I shall certainly look to meet colleagues in the organisation directly to discuss actions further.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House what support and advice is being given to vulnerable women who could be eligible to come to the UK under the ARAP scheme but have not yet been called forward and do not have a male guardian? They are, perhaps, among the most vulnerable, and advice would be most welcome.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

If we were to identify such individuals, with all sensitivities considered, we would see what support could be offered. The noble Baroness points to a very vulnerable category; I agree with her, and we continue to work with all channels, including international partners, to reach that particular group.

Afghanistan: FCDO Update

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the events in Afghanistan have shown the absolute best of United Kingdom diplomatic staff and British forces. We can all take immense pride in what they have achieved, especially in their efforts as part of Operation Pitting, yet, as my noble friend highlighted earlier, the Government’s mismanagement has meant that many Brits and Afghans who have worked alongside us have been left behind.

Our focus now must be on two priorities: first and most immediately, helping and protecting the people who remain in Afghanistan and those who have been able to escape, and, secondly, protecting the gains of the past 20 years, particularly those relating to women and girls and education.

The first priority means helping those who are stranded in Afghanistan to leave via a viable and safe route and—as I mentioned earlier today—focusing support for those who are at most risk of persecution, such as women and LGBT people as well as the Hazara Shias. Can the Minister clarify exactly how many British nationals remain in Afghanistan? For the Afghan nationals who have made it to the United Kingdom, there must now be long-term support for those rebuilding their lives and engagement with local authorities to agree a long-term strategy. Details for the Afghan refugee resettlement programme have been incomplete and delayed, and the Government must urgently clarify how they will help fund the scheme and what the overarching strategy is.

The Minister will be aware that Members of both Houses have taken up the cases of Afghans and British nationals who have been desperate to leave. I know the Minister has personally intervened in many of these cases, but the response of both the Foreign Office and the Home Office has been slow, with many MPs’ emails remaining unanswered. The Prime Minister promised that all emails would be responded to by the close of play yesterday, so can the Minister explain why this deadline has now been missed, with hundreds—I repeat, hundreds—of emails still not being replied to?

As we heard earlier in the debate on the previous Statement, there is a very real prospect of a humanitarian crisis in a country of almost 40 million people, and the consequences could be catastrophic. The country is already experiencing its second drought in three years. One in three Afghans is now facing severe hunger, and almost half of children under five are in need of life-saving nutritional support over the next 12 months—something I have constantly raised in this House, particularly as a consequence of the terrible cuts to development support.

The Government must use multilateral institutions in conjunction with aid agencies to monitor the situation and deliver aid directly to those in need. Steps must also be taken to keep land routes open for the safe delivery of food, medicine, water and other supplies, and preparations need to be made for the people being displaced. UN agencies such as the World Food Programme are planning for this possibility, with responses being explored in Pakistan, Tajikistan and Iran. The Foreign Secretary said he had spoken to Jean Arnault, the special representative on Afghanistan, acknowledging that the relationship with the United Nations will be one of the critical factors we consider in shaping the resettlement scheme. What other discussions have taken place to plan support for these UN agencies?

The second priority must be to protect the gains of the last 20 years, and the only way we can do this is with a clear diplomatic road map for the way ahead. We must use every lever we have to prevent Afghanistan becoming, once again, a safe haven for international terrorism. The United Nations Security Council Resolution 2593 is a welcome first step in affirming the international community’s expectation and requirement that the Taliban should follow through on the assurances they have given. The Foreign Secretary said that the UK is pressing for further discussions with the UN Security Council P5. Will these discussions also explore the means to hold the Taliban to their word?

Regional partners will also be central to preventing security threats arising from Afghanistan, and I am pleased that the Government have been engaging with Pakistan. Yesterday the Foreign Secretary claimed to have engaged with all relevant partners. Can the Minister confirm which states the Foreign Secretary was referring to? Can he set out the steps which were agreed during the Foreign Secretary’s meeting with Pakistan’s Foreign Minister on combating terrorism?

Given the importance of protecting human rights when exerting pressure on the Taliban regime, can the Minister detail the steps we are taking multilaterally, including at the UN Human Rights Council? The Leader of the House and the Foreign Secretary said that the UK plans to host an event at the UN General Assembly later this month. Can the Minister tell us what the objectives of this meeting are? The noble Baroness failed to give us an answer on that; I hope the Minister can set out a better context for it. I believe it is the right thing to do, but we must have very clear objectives.

The Taliban takeover of Afghanistan poses a threat to us all, not only from its past relationship with international terrorism but from the conditions it is now creating in the region. It is in everyone’s interest that the United Kingdom step up and support the people of Afghanistan.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I pay tribute to the service men and women, the diplomats and indeed the Minister himself for the huge efforts put into place under Operation Pitting and in the weeks following the end of the evacuation. But as we heard during the previous Statement, there are some serious questions to be asked about the nature of the evacuation and why we needed to evacuate when we did. A longer-term inquiry may be the time for those questions.

In the shorter term, there are questions about how many people we have left behind. There is clearly the question of how many British nationals who want to leave are still in Afghanistan. My understanding is that all were encouraged to leave back in April; some have chosen not to. If British nationals have chosen to stay, that is their choice, but do the Government have a sense of how many individuals want to leave? Is there a difficulty for people with dual nationality? Will the Taliban make it difficult for people with British and Afghan citizenship to leave? If so, are the Government seeking assurances that people with British passports will have the opportunity for safe passage?

What are the Government realistically able to offer those who have been offered a place under ARAP but have not yet been able to leave the country? The Statements suggest that everyone who has currently been offered a place under ARAP will be able to leave. Is that realistic? Should those of us who are trying to support the British Council and others on individual cases say that, yes, those people will be got out, or do we have to say that realistically we cannot guarantee that?

Beyond those who have already been offered a place under ARAP, what about those second-tier contractors—for example, for the British Council—who have not yet been given the right to come? What hope is there for them? Beyond that, for interpreters and others who worked for the MoD, my understanding is that the MoD has done a great job of getting the interpreters out now, but many others worked alongside our service personnel: the cooks and the people who did the laundry—a whole set of people whose lives are very vulnerable. Where do they feature in the Government’s thinking? Can they be assured of safe passage?

What sort of support will the Government be able to offer, directly or indirectly, to those who are currently away from their homes because they moved towards Kabul hoping to be able to get to the Baron hotel and on to a flight, and who now find themselves without food, shelter or money because they cannot access their bank accounts?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I first thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, for their questions and contributions during what has been a particularly challenging time. I fully acknowledge the noble Baroness’s remarks about my personal engagement. Simply put, I sought—others will judge—to do my job in the best way I can.

I join the noble Lord, the noble Baroness and my noble friend the Leader of House in acknowledging the real debt of gratitude we owe to our servicemen and diplomats. I know Laurie Bristow very well—I was engaging with him daily prior to his appointment, as he went out, and during that appointment. I know first-hand about his commitment. As my noble friend the Leader of the House said, there are always lessons to be learned, and we all have to look back on what we have achieved with a degree of humility in recognising that, yes, it was a massive operation in terms of the people who were able to evacuate from Afghanistan, but at the same time, I assure noble Lords that at the heart of the Government’s approach is humanity in what we do next.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, rightly talked about Operation Pitting and comments have been made about the Government’s role and preparedness. My noble friend has already alluded to the fact that plans were prepared and looked at regularly. Undoubtedly, it was clear from the speed at which the Taliban came into Kabul—which was a key point at which the operation was stood up—and the gains that were being made elsewhere in Afghanistan that the Taliban were making inroads very quickly.

That said, from the Foreign Office perspective, as Minister with responsibility for Afghanistan, I was engaging quite directly with the Government of Afghanistan, not for a week or a month before but for many months before. I was in Uzbekistan three weeks or so before the fall of Kabul, with all the key partners— from the Americans to Pakistan, India, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Turkey and other countries, and I engaged quite directly, including with President Ghani and Foreign Minister Atmar, on the situation on the ground.

Notwithstanding the comments made earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, the issue is the joint assessment, which, as the noble Lord will know from his own time, brings together all the intelligence sources et cetera to ensure that we are fully prepared. Something which has not been said in this context is that, had we not been prepared—notwithstanding the heartbreaking scenes we have all witnessed; and I can assure you, I was hearing live stories during the evacuation process—we would not have achieved this if plans had not been in place. We stood up plans and worked together across government. I put on record my thanks to the Minister for the Armed Forces and the Minister for Immigration. Every day during the operation, we were convening a meeting at which we would address every single issue to ensure that the teams on the ground—be they diplomats or the military—the Minister at the Home Office and his Border Force team were trying to meet in real time the challenges we faced during the evacuation.

We owe a great debt of gratitude to everyone, but the job is not done, and I therefore recognise many of the questions that have been posed. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, rightly raised the issues of safe passage, humanitarian aid and human rights, and I thank him for acknowledging the efforts of the United Kingdom, together with France, at the UN Security Council. We are also working in the margins at UNGA through events which will focus specifically on the points made by the noble Lord about minority rights, women’s rights and the LGBT community. I look forward to working with noble Lords to see how we can plan effectively, including in respect of civil society groups.

The UN resolution really does call for safe passage, human rights and humanitarian aid. Regarding the countries we were engaging with, not just during the crisis but beforehand and subsequently, we are looking at safe passage. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary visited Qatar and Pakistan; I visited Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, and on returning, I visited Dubai to thank the Emiratis, who played a pivotal role in our evacuation process. Although the media may not have covered the operation, it was very smooth in terms of our ability to evacuate through Dubai, and I am grateful to our Emirati friends.

As for holding the Taliban to account, I totally agree with the noble Lord. My views on the Taliban and their perverse ideology are on record, and I speak, as I have said before, as a man who follows the same faith. Their Islam, or their faith, is not one I recognise, and I do not recognise what it presents. In the context of Islam, there are many countries within the Islamic world that have an added obligation, including those near neighbours, but we are working with the United States, the Qataris and others to ensure safe passage. Today, a humanitarian flight arrived at Kabul airport; it was a Qatar Airways flight and it brought in humanitarian aid.

On the specific advice we can give, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked about ARAP and those who were given leave outside the rules. We have already made the point that for those who have already received their letters—from whatever route it was secured—we will guarantee that, through ARAP, they will get exactly what they have been promised. The ARAP scheme remains live and will continue to be so. On leave outside the rules, if someone has a letter, when they are called forward they will be prioritised under the new Home Office resettlement scheme. Of course, we await details, but as my noble friend the Leader said, we are working at pace with our Home Office colleagues, and I know the priority the Home Secretary places on ensuring that details are brought forward at the earliest possible opportunity.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of correspondence. A response was given on 6 September which dealt with a large number of the inquiries that were coming in from MPs about what would happen to individuals who had already received the letter. The intent of that letter was to signpost and reassure. I accept that there are some quite specific cases, and I have certainly said to our teams at the FCDO that, working alongside the Home Office, we will work through these. There are some sensitivities in these cases, and we need to protect individuals, but I am very cognisant of the fact that many individuals in this House and the other place in particular have raised specific cases. There are lots of details on specific cases, and some are split, and we are seeking to provide appropriate signposting. Whether through the FCDO or the Home Office, we will work to resolve particular issues that arise in particular cases. Certainly, I can give that assurance.

On the issue of preparedness, my noble friend alluded to the rapid deployment teams. We are finalising the Home Office policy, and I assure noble Lords that, when I was in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, part of my role was to ensure that our RDTs were embedded—and they are—as they are in Pakistan. I met the team in Dubai on my way back from Tajikistan. We are working in a very sensitive way, recognising the challenge on near neighbours and standing up infrastructure and support. Indeed, the additional funding to Afghanistan, which is now at £286 million, is, let me assure the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, focused not just on providing support for those people we are seeking to evacuate and bring back to the UK but on recognising the burden there will be on neighbouring states, including Pakistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. That is why my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary immediately stood up £30 million, £10 million of which will be applied directly to help support facilities within those neighbouring countries.

The noble Lord asked about holding the Taliban to account. In the previous debate there was a discussion of the levers we have available. I assure all noble Lords that there is one thing above all else that the Taliban strives for, which is recognition. Yes, they may be a much more polished version of what was there before, but we need to hold them to account. That means working with our international partners and those who have influence over the Taliban, but also ensuring that the humanitarian aid gets through. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that I have spoken—not just on this occasion but previously—with different UN agencies, and in the last few weeks have spoken directly to Filippo Grandi at the UNHCR and Henrietta Fore at UNICEF, among others. I have engaged directly with Michelle Bachelet to ensure that our focus remains not just at the UN Security Council but at the UN Human Rights Council as well.

Afghanistan: Security

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s second question, of course, the issues about security and safe passage of those wishing to leave Afghanistan are in front of us. The issues of human rights and humanitarian aid are all very much part of our discussions. We have engaged with China and Russia, in the formulation of the Security Council resolution that was passed. Further discussions are under way, and I am sure that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary will announce those in the near future.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his tireless efforts on behalf of those who have worked with the United Kingdom and those who have already been recognised under the ARAP scheme. What advice should be given to individuals who have been called forward and are now in Kabul but have not been allowed out of the country? Some of them have had no food and are having to move from safe house to safe house, which, after a while, cease to become safe for anybody at all.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and many across your Lordships’ House and in the other place. The last three weeks have been an extremely testing time for all of us. The stories of courage that we have heard from individuals stuck in Afghanistan to whom we owe a responsibility are very clear. In this regard, I thank all noble Lords and those in the other place who have worked tirelessly across party lines to ensure that we do the right thing and get people out. That remains a central objective. The noble Baroness is right about the ARAP scheme. First and foremost, an assurance has been given that those who have been called forward, if they go to a third country, will be processed and brought back to the United Kingdom. The important issue is of safe passage. On the humanitarian side, today Qatar landed the first aircraft, which has provided humanitarian assistance, but the issues of security and stability in Afghanistan must remain primary in our minds. Anyone whom we seek to assist will have that particular context in relation to the advice that we give them. On ARAP specifically, anyone who is called forward through a third country—I assure the noble Baroness that we are working on that—can hold us to the obligation that we have given.

Cyberattack: Microsoft

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Answer in the House of Commons suggested that there had been a response in the form of a statement by 39 countries. That is welcome, but what action are the Government taking, beyond making statements, to ensure that the United Kingdom and her allies are no longer vulnerable to China? Statements are one thing; sanctions or other actions would surely be far more effective.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Baroness will acknowledge that when we call out such action, as we have on this occasion, that is done in co-ordination with our key partners. The fact that 39 countries, including those of the European Union and NATO, including Norway, as well as Japan, are among those demonstrates the strong condemnation of these actions. Alongside international partners, we continue not just to call this out but to ensure that we are vigilant to these threats, wherever they come from, and ready to defend against them. As for specific sanctions, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, pointed to Russia, and the noble Baroness will be aware that we have an autonomous sanctions regime and, where necessary, we have acted in the past, although I cannot speculate on any future action that we may take in this respect.

Arctic: Security and Co-operation

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 28th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that it is important to retain dialogue with all key partners and key players involved in the Arctic, and as an observer at the Arctic Council we have strongly claimed and talked of the importance of convening all Arctic states inclusively for retaining a peaceful, stable and well-governed Arctic. We attend the Arctic Council ministerial meeting and we are looking to work constructively with Russia under its stewardship, particularly as we look at wider issues beyond security in the lead-up to COP 26. However, I hear what the noble Lord says, and I can assure him that we are working with key international partners to ensure that the Arctic remains a peaceful and stable part of the world.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, can I press the Minister a little further? Last week, the leaders of France and Germany were calling for the European Union to engage more closely with Russia. Do Her Majesty’s Government believe that, in the context of the Arctic, we should be working more closely with Russia, or do we need to view Russian build-up in the Arctic with suspicion?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as I have already said, we are concerned by the recent increase in activity by Russia in the Arctic region. However, I assure the noble Baroness that we look forward to working with all Arctic states, including Russia, particularly on important issues such as environmental protection and sustainable development, during the Russian chairmanship of the Arctic Council during 2021 to 2023. However, security remains a concern, and we will continue to work with partners in defence and in NATO.

Genocide: Bringing Perpetrators to Justice

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister can be in no doubt of the feeling of Members of your Lordships’ House about the question of genocide. My noble friend—I do call him a friend—the noble Lord, Lord Alton, has on so many occasions raised the issue of genocide. Many of these issues that we have talked about this evening have been rehearsed again and again. The Government in the integrated review and in the gracious Speech stressed that they want to play an important role in the world and be a beacon of democracy and human rights. To do that, we need also to be able to take a stand on genocide, upholding our own commitments under the genocide convention of 1948, and finding a way to hold regimes to account when there are cases of genocide.

On so many occasions, as the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, and others pointed out, the Government have claimed that decisions need to be made by a court, and yet the nature of the UN Security Council and the vetoes of the P5 countries, when we know that China and Russia and the US under Donald Trump would not accept any moves on genocide, mean that we need to look again. Can the Minister tell us whether there has been any thought in the Government about taking up the French idea of the veto not being used in cases of genocide? Can the Minister tell us when we are likely to see the joint parliamentary committee, so that Parliament can begin to take a stand on genocide and hold the Government to account in their decisions and actions in this area as well?

Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I am delighted to be able to speak in this debate and, in particular, grateful to the usual channels and the Ministers.

May I move down slightly? The reason I was trying to speak from there was because it is quite useful to be able to see the Minister, and I quite like the idea that the Minister is able to see me. The last two times I tried to speak in the Chamber, because I am so small, where I have been standing I could not be seen. The Table now has five screens and a mobile phone on it. Obviously, if I was standing where I was not audible that is also not desirable. It merely highlights the problem that I want to start with—other than thanking the Ministers—because I want to raise the issue of the hybrid Parliament very briefly.

I thank the Ministers for being willing to have today’s debate. What was happening, before half-term, was whole series of very short statements. In particular, the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, pointed out that there were a whole set of very short debates in which we got a minute to speak. So a five-hour debate is very welcome. However, even a five-hour debate meant a time limit of four minutes for Back-Bench speakers. That would be fine, except the rules about presence in the Chamber mean that several noble Lords had signed up to speak and found they were scratched because they had not worked out how to be in the Chamber when there were no seats for them. This debate is going to finish well within the five hours, but we lost 10 people who would have been speaking. It is regrettable that the current situation means that we are not able to debate quite as we would like.

We are in a situation where we have the integrated review and, as the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, has just pointed out, a whole suite of other defence-related documents that are coming forward. This means that we have the opportunity to discuss a range of issues on more than one occasion.

The main focus of today is intended to be the integrated security, defence and foreign policy review, also including development aid—multiple, different topics, which, as several noble Lords have already pointed out, is not particularly integrated. It is a document that covers a huge range of topics, all very interesting, not necessarily integrated and scarcely strategic. It is noticeable that the former Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay of St Johns, who currently chairs the International Relations and Defence Committee, on which I had the pleasure of sitting until recently, pointed out some of the defects in this report.

Those were very similar to the defects in the Government’s policy on Africa, which is allegedly a strategy but in fact a whole set of disparate issues. That is very much a problem with the so-called integrated review. It talks a great deal about ambitions; it raises, slightly heuristically, as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, pointed out, the Prime Minister’s ambitions. It flags up some of the Government’s ambitions on defence, diplomacy and development, but it does not allow us to go into sufficient deal. There are lots of ambitions, but do the Government really know how they are going to deliver on those ambitions?

We had a statement on defence expenditure, as the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, pointed out: a welcome uplift, but for the next four years. Anyone who knows anything about defence procurement knows that four years is not very long for procurement. We have had calls to know when the frigates are going to appear. That is likely to be, as we have already heard, the late 2020s. So an uplift in defence expenditure for four years was welcome, but, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, pointed out, it is, to an extent, putting the cart before the horse, because it did not enable us to understand what defence commitments needed to be. In particular, when we heard about an increase in defence expenditure, nobody had any inkling whatsoever that the Government were suddenly going to pull a nuclear rabbit out of a hat and announce that they were going to raise the number of nuclear warheads.

Almost nobody in this debate has spoken in favour of raising the number of nuclear warheads. Only the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, suggested that this is desirable. He suggested that for us to have a deterrent, it needed to be credible, and that we perhaps need more warheads. But the vast majority of opinion in this debate has been quite different. It has reflected the view of the noble Lord, Lord McDonald of Salford, that there is a very real danger that we will potentially be in breach of international law and our own commitments under the non-proliferation treaty if the Government think of raising the number of nuclear warheads. So I ask the Minister what assessment she, the Secretary of State and anybody in the Ministry of Defence has given to our commitments under the NPT, and whether increasing the number of nuclear warheads is seen to be in breach of Article VI or any other aspect of the NPT.

When I asked the noble Baroness the Leader of the House a similar question when the announcement on nuclear weapons was made, she said that there was no issue in terms of our international obligations. Is that true legally? Beyond that, have the Government thought about what the ramifications are politically? One of the people who spoke most eloquently at the time of the announcement was Tobias Ellwood, chair of the Defence Committee in the other place. He pointed out that if this Government feel that the security conditions are so dangerous and that chemical and biological weapons somehow necessitate a situation where the United Kingdom needs to increase its nuclear capability, why is that not true for China or Russia? Why is it not true for Iran, which may wish to have nuclear weapons? What messages do the Government think the nuclear policy sends?

I think the Minister understands that it is very difficult for the Government to get anything through this House when the view across the Chamber is almost unanimous. She has done sterling service to your Lordships and, I hope, to decision-making on the overseas operations Bill by taking matters such as genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity back to the Ministry of Defence and the other place, following a sense that we were united. There is a very similar view on nuclear, so please could she take that message back?

Beyond nuclear, money clearly matters in the context of development as well. Many noble Lords have focused on that, including my noble friends Lord Purvis of Tweed, Lord Bruce of Bennachie and Lady Northover, and they are right. There are serious moral issues. If we want to be global Britain and say that we wish to export our values, some of that is surely about what we do with our soft power. Saying that we are going to decimate our bilateral aid, particularly to a country such as Yemen, is completely unacceptable. Have the Government given any thought to the messages they are sending by saying that they will increase defence expenditure—which I welcome as our defence spokesperson—but are cutting aid at the same time? What message do the Government think that sends? Could the Minister tell us when she believes that the 0.5% will go back to 0.7%? I realise that this might be a little contentious within the governing party, but some sense that we will move back to 0.7% next year would be extremely welcome.

Beyond development and defence are the questions of diplomacy. As certain noble Lords pointed out, that seems rather lacking. We need to hear more about diplomacy and soft power generally. The Government talk about the BBC World Service but spend the rest of their time denigrating the BBC, so what is the message?

As we have heard from many noble Lords, this review seems in many ways to be disintegrated, not integrated. It seems to send mixed messages—about our soft power and about the threats, particularly how we deal with China. As my noble friend Lord Alton—and I do call him a friend—pointed out, there are questions about genocide and how we deal with a country such as China. This integrated review, like so many government statements, appears to send mixed messages.

Perhaps trade trumps defence and short-termism trumps long-termism and our values; I very much hope that it does not, but I would be grateful if, in her response, the Minister could tell us what values are most important to this Government. And so that we have a sense of strategy, not a laundry list, could she tell us what the Government’s priorities in this review will be?

Hong Kong: Pro-Democracy Campaigners

Baroness Smith of Newnham Excerpts

Monday 19th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s first point on asylum, as I said, I am proud that the United Kingdom continues to be a sanctuary for those seeking protection from persecution internationally, as it has been over the years. On her broader point, the BNO scheme has been introduced; it is working well. There are no other plans, but we continue to press the Hong Kong authorities to restore democratic rights and the right to protest within Hong Kong.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, following on from the noble Baroness’s question, I will press the Minister a bit further and ask whether the Government will go away and think again about the rights of young Hong Kongers. Would it be possible to pave the way for those who were too young to have been eligible for the BNO passport scheme to have access to jobs and education here?