Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Baroness Smith of Llanfaes Excerpts

Friday 20th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

I am conscious that we have probably exchanged views enough. There is a clear breach of the Sewel convention. It is not usual for the UK Parliament to vote on such matters. I do not want to get into further exchanges, but I have spoken to Senedd Members and they believe—I do not want to use an inflammatory word—there was a perceived threat of this being imposed without their say. That is also why, as I repeat, the Health Secretary for Wales and the First Minister of Wales both voted against the legislative consent Motion. That, to me, is extraordinary in itself. I will not go into all the details on that, but it needs to be considered carefully as we continue to debate this group.

As I say, we covered a lot of these issues on day one, so it is not my intention to extend debate. It is useful to switch to other noble Lords who have tabled, in particular, amendments regarding the Government of Wales Act. I am grateful to those Peers who have signed some of my amendments in terms of the shift of power to the Welsh Senedd on this. I beg to move.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendments 844, 903 and 905 in this group, but I first turn the Committee’s attention to the LCM debate, as the noble Baroness, Lady Coffey, just did, that took place in the Senedd on 24 February. At the beginning of the debate, Jeremy Miles, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, set out to the Senedd:

“I … wish to be clear about what may happen if the Senedd were to withhold consent today. The sponsors of the Bill have confirmed that, in those circumstances, they would seek to remove clause 42 from the Bill. That would mean the law in England and Wales would change to permit assisted dying, but there would be no powers in the Bill for Welsh Ministers to implement assisted dying services in Wales or to oversee or regulate such services”.

That clarification is important for the Committee. Throughout the debate, many MSs stated dissatisfaction with how the Senedd was being treated. I apologise, but I will quote several MSs today because I think it is important that they are heard here. One said:

“We are being asked to vote in the dark”,


and another

“we’re … being asked to sign a blank cheque”.

Another said

“we are … legislating with a blindfold over our eyes … This is no way to treat a Parliament. This is no way to treat a nation”.

The Senedd was put in an impossible situation by this Parliament. A vote against this LCM would result in assisted dying services being available only privately, and a vote in favour at least retains some power for the Senedd to shape such services through the NHS in Wales. That was what the vote was about specifically. I thought this was concisely put—

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

The reason that the Senedd was voting in the dark was that this Bill had not reached its conclusion in the House of Lords. If it had done so, the Senedd would have been legislating in the daylight.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her intervention. However, that is not the case in terms of the practical reason why the Senedd Members raised those points; it is also in relation to the fact that they passed an amendment to this LCM, which I was lately going to touch on, which states that the Senedd “regrets” that this Parliament has not properly considered the

“constitutional implications of this Bill for Wales”.

It is important to note that, yes, they passed the LCM, but they amended it with a point about this Parliament not having done its duty and gone through the implications for Wales in detail. A lot of those in Wales who support the Bill just do not feel that they have had an opportunity to shape this Bill. I thank the noble Baroness for her intervention, and I hope that that clarifies my point a little further.

The point was concisely put by Adam Price during that debate:

“Supporters of assisted dying do not argue for access determined by wealth. Opponents do not argue for a system outside NHS governance in a matter as grave as this … No country’s Parliament should have to stand aside while another decides the terms on which its own citizens live and die”.


He went on to say that he sincerely hoped that the vote was the last time that the Senedd—and other devolved Parliaments—was put in that situation.

The Senedd passed the LCM with an amendment stating, as I just mentioned, that the Senedd:

“Regrets the lack of thorough consideration of the constitutional implications of this Bill for Wales during the legislative process”.


As I just said, the passing of that amendment also showcases that we have failed in our own duty here in relation to those implications.

Amendments 903 and 905 in my name aim to restore an amendment that was agreed in Committee in the other place. The amendment was later taken out on Report without resolving the purpose behind it having been put forward and agreed in Committee. Simply, my amendments would give the Senedd a vote on the final Bill passed here before regulations could be created by Welsh Ministers for the delivery of an assisted dying service in Wales. The reason for this amendment is simple: as I highlighted at Second Reading, although the criminal law is a reserved matter, the legality of assisted dying in this case, and the delivery of such a service, is a devolved matter. Not allowing the Senedd to have a vote nor the opportunity to fully scrutinise and amend this Bill infringes on devolution and disrespects the roles and duties of Members of the Senedd.

Health and social care makes up over half of all spending from the Welsh Government’s budget. Do noble Lords not agree that it is therefore essential that Members of the Senedd are able to scrutinise all health spending? Not allowing Members of the Senedd to shape this Bill limits their ability to do that. The Covid pandemic is the most recent prominent example of how Wales does things differently when it comes to health. This Parliament needs to wake up to this reality and let devolved Parliaments do their job. This matter is an anomaly from a devolution perspective. As in Scotland, this is a fully devolved area. The Scottish Parliament recently had the opportunity to debate and shape its own Bill that could be suitable for Scotland. If the Scottish Parliament has the right, why can this not be the case for Wales?

I turn to Amendment 844, which would create a new clause to address this exact issue. The amendment would deliver parity between Scotland and Wales on this matter by amending the Government of Wales Act to remove offences related to suicide from reserved matters. This would allow the Senedd, if it chose to do so, to introduce its own Bill on assisted dying. It would allow the Senedd’s health committee to take its own evidence, including from NHS Wales and the Welsh Government’s Health Secretary. Your Lordships will be aware of the list of witnesses who were called to recent Select Committees ahead of this Bill. The chief executive of NHS England was called to give evidence, but there were no representations from Wales. I respect the work that members on that committee carried out; however, would they agree that the Senedd should also be able to take evidence from within Wales and be able to make decisions on the establishment of a new service in Wales for the people of Wales, based on Wales-specific information? Amendment 844 would be the best course of action in order to recognise that this Bill has not been designed with Wales or for Wales and to align Wales with Scotland in making a decision on this matter.

I turn finally to the amendments in this group from the noble Baroness, Lady Coffey. In the hypothetical scenario that we passed her amendments alone, we would be leaving Wales in a grey area. Wales would be taken out of this Bill, but with no way for the Senedd to legislate on this matter. In this Committee, we must consider the full consequences and where those decisions will then lie. My Amendment 844 would avoid that scenario and ensure that the Senedd had a way of legislating on this matter if it chose to do so.

To conclude, and as I already highlighted at Second Reading, I support people’s right to choose how they die. However, in the case of services being made available in Wales, they must be shaped and designed by the people of Wales. That must be an ability for the Senedd and not for us here in Westminster.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Llanfaes; that was a tour de force. Goodness knows, we rarely agree, and I am hardly a Plaid supporter, but I am from Wales. I want to reflect on couple of tiny things that she said in why I wanted to speak.

Family and friends in Wales were completely confused about what the vote meant when it happened. They asked, “Have we just voted for assisted dying?” It was not clear, the way it came across. They were not sure what was being voted on. In a way, they were not alone, because when I talk to people, I also feel very uncomfortable that the Senedd was basically asked to vote on a blank cheque, as was said, because Members of the Senedd did not, do not and could not yet know what the Bill will look like. You can blame us here for that—we have not got very far—but the truth is that it seems presumptive for the Senedd to be asked to give consent in advance when we do not yet know whether amendments will get through this place and how they will change the Bill. By the way, that includes amendments by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, the Bill’s sponsor.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harper (Con)]

My Lords, I want to touch on a number of points. First, I join the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, in welcoming my noble and learned friend Lady Prentis back to these Benches. I do not think she will mind my saying that she has been following our debates assiduously from home—she cannot get enough of them. It is a delight to see her come back to hear them in person.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, put his finger on one of the issues by asking what reason there could be for us not legislating for Wales. Well, the rather obvious reason was set out clearly by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Llanfaes: the Welsh Senedd has debated the principle of assisted suicide and has decided that it does not want it to apply in Wales. I think we should respect that.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

I want to clarify that that is not what I said in relation to the debate on the principle. That was a separate debate, and I do not think that it is necessarily relevant to the discussion, given that the LCM has been voted on.

[Lord Harper]

I recognise the noble Baroness’s view, but the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, asked why we should not just go ahead and legislate for Wales. The point is that the Welsh Senedd has debated this matter, which is a perfectly good reason for us not to proceed without its consent. I will come on to some of the amendments tabled by the noble Baroness in a moment.

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[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I am sure that all noble Lords welcome that report and its comments but, as the noble Baroness is aware, it is a matter for the sponsor to decide the response to that rather than the Government.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

What is His Majesty’s Government’s approach to the legislative consent Motion process and making sure that the Sewel convention is kept to? What intergovernmental discussions have this Government had with the Welsh Government on the constitutional implications of this Bill in particular?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

As noble Lords will be aware, engaging with the devolved Governments is a matter for the sponsor, not the Government.

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[Lord Falconer of Thoroton (Lab)]

Our approach to this has been to respect the devolution settlement, which, for better or for worse, unquestionably leaves criminal justice to this Parliament, not to the Welsh Parliament. I thought that was the substance of the argument that I was making. We should not change the devolution settlement in this Bill. I respect and understand the argument that the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, are making, but I do not accept it.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

Will the noble and learned Lord clarify whether, if the Bill were to pass, the Welsh Government would be able to widen or limit eligibility for the service in Wales?

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton (Lab)]

The Welsh Government would not be able to widen or reduce the eligibility of an individual for assisted dying. A person would not be in breach of the criminal law in Wales only if they complied with every aspect of the safeguards in the Bill. The Welsh Government’s role would not be to determine who qualifies for an assisted death. In the light of those provisions, it would be only how they introduce delivery of it in the Welsh health service.

There were a large number of other interventions, particularly from the noble Lord, Lord Deben. It was completely unclear whether he is in favour of the Welsh health service having the ability to do that. Whatever his view, I make it absolutely clear that it is for the Welsh health service or Welsh Ministers to decide how it is introduced. It must be in accordance with the statute, but it is for them to decide, and that is why we have given them that power.

I shall go on to the third category. This is not a Welsh Ministers issue, but a Secretary of State issue. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Landaff, made the point that he should not have a Henry VIII power as wide as the one given. I see considerable force in what she said. She asked whether I have an answer that says that this is a parallel with the Brexit provisions, which is the only time that this has been done. I do not have an adequate answer in relation to that, so I should go back and think about how I can appropriately limit that power. However, I make it clear that that is not about the Welsh issue but about the width of the power that the Executive should have. I see the force of what the noble Baroness and the Delegated Powers Committee said.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton (Lab)]

I have sympathy with what the noble Lord says. I do not think it is appropriate for that sort of issue to be resolved in a Bill such as this, and it goes far wider than assisted dying.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

I thank the noble and learned Lord for giving way. I have one final question of clarity. If the Bill were to pass here, what would happen if the Welsh Ministers, whoever they may be, did not lay the regulations but the Senedd as a whole supported having those services delivered in Wales? What power would the Senedd have to be able to push for an assisted dying service if Welsh Ministers did not lay the regulations?

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton (Lab)]

I have two points. First, we have made it clear in the Bill that there is no obligation on Welsh Ministers to lay the regulations. In England, they must lay the regulations. In Wales, they may do so; they have a discretion because we thought it appropriate that they should have that choice. If they do not exercise that power, my understanding is that it would be open to the Senedd to pass an Act saying that this has to be done. If no such Act were passed, or the Ministers did not decide to exercise their power under the regulation-making power in this Bill, the consequence would be that the National Health Service would not offer assisted dying in Wales.