Elections Bill

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Report stage
Wednesday 6th April 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Quin]

9A: Clause 3, leave out Clause 3

[Baroness Quin (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 9A and also Amendments 9B and 70, which are consequential amendments in this group. These amendments relate to my ongoing concerns about the new postal vote restrictions in Clause 3 and Schedule 3.

I wrote to the Minister about this subject following our earlier, very brief discussion. In particular, I asked him what evidence there was to back up his remarks that an indefinite postal vote, in the way we have at present,

“presents a significant security concern”.—[Official Report, 21/3/22; col. 739]

For reasons that are completely understandable, I did not receive a reply before the deadline for tabling amendments. It is a pity, in a way, because I might not have felt it necessary to table these amendments if I had been able to receive a reply, but I totally understand that the Minster was unavoidably absent over recent days, and I realise too that it would have been better to send my email to the department rather than using a parliamentary route. None the less, I am very glad that the Minister is back with us today. As I say, there was a brief discussion on 21 March about the new restrictions on postal voting. Unfortunately, I could not be present on that occasion, but I was very grateful to my noble friend Lord Collins of Highbury for referring to some of my concerns.

The background to this is that I come from a part of the country where postal voting rates are among the highest in the UK, and have been consistently so ever since the Labour Government’s experiments with all-postal ballots between 2001 and 2005. For example, in the 2010 election, eight out of the top 10 constituencies for postal voting were in Tyne and Wear. Newcastle Central was at the head of the list, with a rate of over 40%. I very well remember, in my old constituency of Gateshead East and Washington West, when the all-postal ballots took place, I was so struck by the number of people who had not voted by post before and really appreciated it because they felt it suited their lifestyle much more.

Voting in person, on a Thursday—a system that came into force when most people lived and worked very locally and there was far less commuting and travel—has become very difficult for a lot of people, and remains difficult. Many of us who have knocked on doors on election day to try to get people out to vote at the last minute have experienced this. Sometimes people have come home from work and are reluctant for all kinds of reasons. Whether it is the weather or something much more important perhaps, such as leaving a child at home, they are very reluctant to venture out again. We have seen this phenomenon grow over the years so that it has a negative effect on turnout. When the all-postal ballots took place in my area, in local elections we experienced a hike from 20% to 50%. In the area that I lived and knew, there were no instances of fraud whatsoever; there was no evidence of fraud.

At the time, the Conservative Party was very much opposed to these postal ballots, fearing that the Labour vote in particular would go up. However, when one looks at the evidence, particularly over a number of years, this is not really the case. Voting went up dramatically, but it did so proportionately.

As a result of these experiments, postal voting in my part of the world has remained very high. I mentioned that, in the 2010 general election, eight out of the 10 highest constituencies for postal voting were in the north-east. In 2017, that was still true—Newcastle North was, I think, head of the list with 44.3%. In the 2019 election, the rate fell slightly but, none the less, in the north-east it was still high with, I think, Houghton and Washington East having the highest rate.

In raising these concerns today, I am concerned in case this Conservative Government are in some way antagonistic to postal voting. I ask the Minister: is it the Government’s aim to facilitate postal voting or hamper it? It seems to me that it would be particularly crazy to make it more difficult for postal voting to take place at a time of a pandemic, when postal voting is particularly valued by people who, for various reasons, might be nervous about going to polling booths. The Pickles report, which has a lot of good things in it and has been quoted by a number of Members during the course of our debate, was, I think, in favour of some restrictions on postal voting, but let us remember that it was produced in 2016, pre-pandemic and before the experience of the last couple of years. Listening to the earlier debates today, and listening to so many people, quite rightly, worrying about a decline in voting, I think it seems crazy to bring in a measure that does not seem to be backed up by evidence and could reduce the number of people taking part in an election and, in particular, voting by post.

I know that, over the years, there has been much stress on the danger of fraud and, although there have been instances of fraud, which I completely deplore, they would not have been stopped by these provisions in the Bill. The fraud took place in different circumstances. Also, keeping on talking about fraud, in areas where there has not been any, does talk up a non-existent problem. I very much agreed with the comments made earlier by my noble friend Lady Lister on that subject. Certainly, the more it is said that there is a problem of fraud, the more in general that the electorate is likely to perceive that there is a problem of fraud. Yet, in constituencies where postal votes have had the highest rate of participation, there has not been fraud. As I say, in any case, these particular measures would not have prevented fraud that has happened elsewhere.

My honourable friend Fleur Anderson in the House of Commons made this and similar points in another rather short debate on the subject. I was disappointed that, in her reply, the Minister in the Commons said that Labour was simply focusing on costs and administrative burdens and that these were being overstated. This was not true. My honourable friend was mostly concerned with the lack of evidence in backing up these new restrictions. The measures were also criticised by Scottish members in the House of Commons—not surprisingly since Scotland and Wales allow indefinite postal voting under the current arrangements but will have to impose the new limits for UK parliamentary elections only. This leads to a confusing and unjustified situation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, for her kind remarks, and I apologise that she did not get a response. I assure her that I was horrified when I went into my office this morning and found her letter there, but I did not have a forwarding arrangement to my sick bed, I am afraid. I understand that the purpose of the clause that she wants to remove is to seek to strengthen the current arrangements for applying for a postal vote. It is not intended to in any way attack the principle of the postal vote.

The noble Baroness asked about evidence. The Electoral Commission winter tracker for 2021 found that 21% of people who were asked thought that postal voting was unsafe compared to 68% who thought it was safe. There has been evidence of postal voting fraud reported in Tower Hamlets, Slough, Birmingham and Peterborough among other places, but that does not invalidate the case for postal voting itself. What the Government are proposing is to facilitate online application, as the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, said we are doing. Our intention, as with other elements in this Bill, is to improve safeguards against potential abuse.

As the noble Baroness acknowledged, the set of measures implements recommendations in the report by my noble friend Lord Pickles—he has appeared behind me—into electoral fraud that address weaknesses in the current absent voting arrangements. Also, a 2019 report by the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee gave support to the proposed voting reforms. The proposal is to require an elector to reapply at least every three years, and that will enable the electoral registration officer to regularly assess the application and confirm that they are still an eligible elector. Also, it gives an opportunity, as I said at an earlier stage of the Bill, for someone caught in a cycle of coercion, or who is coerced into having a postal vote to enable their vote to be influenced on an ongoing basis, to break out of that situation. It makes it harder to maintain ongoing coercion.

Keeping details more up to date will reduce wasted costs of postal votes being sent to out-of-date addresses where, again, there may be risk of abuse. Under the Bill, there will also be transitional provisions for existing long-term postal voters, and we intend to phase in the measure for them so that they will have advanced notice to enable them to prepare for the administrative change. EROs will be required to send a reminder to existing postal voters in advance of the date they cease to have a postal vote and provide information to them on how to reapply for it, including online. We believe this is an important measure that could strengthen the integrity of postal voting and not undermine it in any way.

I will of course reflect on the points the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, made in the debate. I was surprised to hear him accepting responsibility; I thought he accepted responsibility only for defeating Conservative candidates at elections. But I will take that admission as well.

Postal voting remains an important part of our electoral system. We do not believe that moving from five to three years, for reasons including those referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, would invalidate the position, and I hope the reassurance I have given, and the supporting evidence, plus the reports and recommendations I have cited, will enable the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Quin (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I am still somewhat concerned about the possible effects of these measures, but I am encouraged by the Minister’s words that the Government in no way want to discourage postal voting and they see it as an important part of our electoral processes. I just hope that the Government will look at the evidence as the situation progresses. In the light of what has been said, and in the interests of making progress, I wish to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 9A withdrawn.

Brexit Opportunities Unit

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Monday 19th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right to set out the trade opportunities now available to this country after leaving the EU. I and many of my Cabinet colleagues work closely with industry organisations of all kinds to help them in their export plans, understand any difficulties that they face and resolve those difficulties. We continue to do that expeditiously.

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I urge the Minister to look favourably on the application of my noble friend Lord Adonis. In contrast to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, the Prime Minister claimed that his deal—the TCA—would allow our companies and exporters to do even more business with our European friends. Will it be part of the job of the Brexit opportunities director to achieve increased trade with our nearest and biggest market, particularly in the light of the disruption and loss of trade that we have seen over recent months?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, we support expanded trade of all kinds wherever it is to be found. We are confident that British industry will be able to deliver on that. The figures for exports so far this year show that exports to the EU are back to normal—that is, at 2019 levels—which is what we expected. The opportunities for this country as a trading country are very great, and I am sure that it will be part of the role of this individual to get behind them.

Standards in Public Life Report

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Thursday 17th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I think that many will pay attention to my noble friend’s words, as ever. I will not comment on individuals but, as we set out last week, we expect all current and former advisers to act in full accordance with the Code of Conduct for Special Advisers. This includes full accordance with its ACOBA provisions. Both the Cabinet Office and ACOBA are able to offer advice to current and former employees to help fulfil these requirements.

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, with regard to the Ministerial Code, can the Minister assure us that in future there will be no question of the Prime Minister expressing his full confidence in a Minister at the beginning of an investigation, thereby prejudicing and undermining the process in advance, as happened with the Home Secretary?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, again, I will not comment on individuals. We have discussed this before, and I maintain the view that the Prime Minister’s constitutional role means that he or she has overall responsibility for the organisation of the Executive and the implementation of the Ministerial Code. The committee’s interim report has made some observations on the code, and obviously we will consider those carefully.

Vice-President of the European Commission

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Thursday 29th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, this is possibly not the moment to get into textual exegesis of HMRC guidance. I can say that we are doing our best to support UK businesses dealing with the practical consequences of leaving the customs union. There is a good deal of—I hope—intelligible guidance available to them, and most companies have now been able to deal with this new situation and are exporting successfully.

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I too hope that we can move quickly to solve some of the current problems facing businesses. Given the Minister’s welcome willingness to meet Members of the House, can I ask him to meet me to discuss specific ongoing problems faced by some businesses in the north-east which are threatening to jeopardise or even destroy the export trade to the EU that has been built up over many years?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I am always happy to meet Members of this House on EU exit and the practical issues that have emerged from it. On the broader point that the noble Baroness makes, the latest statistics published by the Office for National Statistics and HMRC show that trade in goods is close to previous levels and that companies are exporting successfully. There of course remain difficulties, which we are doing our very best to try to resolve.

Budget Statement

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Friday 12th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I begin with warmest congratulations to my new noble friend Lord Khan.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer understandably spoke at length in his Budget speech about the effect of Covid on the economy but managed to avoid any mention whatever of the Government’s Brexit deal, which is creating huge problems for our economy and our exporters. We remember the Prime Minister trumpeting his deal on Christmas Eve and claiming, astonishingly, that it meant no non-tariff barriers. In saying this, was he deliberately telling us a lie, or did he not understand the deal that he had put his signature to? The new barriers to doing business in our biggest and nearest market are harming industries as diverse as the fishing industry on the one hand and our hitherto outstanding successful creative industries on the other. In my local area, some small businesses which export to the EU and which want to grow have suddenly lost half of their trade, with the food and drink sector particularly badly affected.

The Prime Minister also promised us a Brexit windfall for the NHS, but nurses’ pay goes up only 1%. Please can the Government reconsider that?

The Budget contained controversial announcements on the levelling-up agenda. For example, the Chancellor’s own area in North Yorkshire was given a higher priority than other much less well-off places. I note that in my own region, the north-east, the only good news was for Teesside and Darlington, both of which have Conservative politicians the Government are keen to shore up. Nothing was given to any areas north of Teesside. Why were those areas excluded?

Finally, I regret strongly that the levelling-up money is being distributed by centrally controlled and centrally judged schemes, which involve would-be beneficiaries spending valuable time and resources in putting forward bids with no guarantee of success. Can we not have a fair allocation of this money based on need and on a genuine partnership between central government and the local areas concerned?

Constitution, Democracy and Human Rights Commission

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Thursday 14th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, as a very experienced Minister himself, my noble friend knows that debates are matters for the usual channels. He asked about progress with a constitutional review. I have indicated that the Government are determined to pursue this in a range of independent workstreams. That has begun in the first year with the Independent Review of Administrative Law.

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

I support the words of the noble Lord, Lord Young, and urge a cross-party and non-party approach to these issues; otherwise, what emerges from the Government’s plans will lack credibility. Before we lurch into any more divisive or closely fought referendums, can we please try to have cross-party and wide agreement on when referendums should be used in our parliamentary democracy, perhaps by following some of the recommendations in the report of the House of Lords cross-party Constitution Committee published a few years ago?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are not seeking referendums, although I understand that another political party in the kingdom is. We will not go in that direction. I certainly agree that cross-party approaches are desirable. Another constitutional issue that we are addressing is fixed-term Parliaments, which the Government have put forward for pre-legislative scrutiny by a cross-party Joint Committee.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Baroness Quin Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I share the sadness of many in this debate as we reach the end of the road for our EU membership, of which I have been a strong supporter since well before being elected to the first directly elected European Parliament in 1979. Indeed, my support for the EU was strengthened when I was a Minister attending Council of Ministers meetings on justice and home affairs, agriculture and foreign and general affairs. In contradiction to the caricature of the bullying EU, I found it a forum where British interests could be defended and advanced, and where you could forge alliances and conclude beneficial agreements. It is a tragedy that we left when we had a number of special arrangements and had made a huge success of the internal market. Rather than being a victim of rules imposed on us, we were leading lights in forging those rules in many sectors of our economy.

This is a bad deal, exacerbated by being unnecessarily squeezed up against a self-imposed deadline, causing difficulties and uncertainties for business. It is certainly a worse deal than Theresa May’s deal, particularly because of the creation of a border down the Irish Sea. It represents a loss of freedom for our citizens to live, work and study in the EU. It fails on proper mutual recognition of qualifications, which may cause us to lose contracts as a result. It causes difficulties for musicians and freelancers in our vital creative sector. It even creates new restrictions within the UK, an example that I came across being the introduction now of rules for pet travel between mainland Britain and Northern Ireland where no rules previously existed. It does not surprise me that so many parties in Northern Ireland represented in our Houses of Parliament find the deal unpalatable.

This morning, I listened to the impressive speech made by my party leader, Keir Starmer, who not for the first time showed the qualities that I hope will make him Prime Minister in due course. It was clear that he knew the details of this deal better than the Prime Minister, who still will not admit that he was wrong to claim that there were no non-tariff barriers in the deal when there obviously are.

I am glad that Labour was united against no deal, and I am glad too that Keir Starmer pointed out that those voting against the deal do not actually want to win the vote, because it would lead to a no-deal outcome. However, I still believe that abstention is a credible course of action for people like me. This is the Government’s deal. As we have seen, they have the majority to get it through. Abstention is not walking away when it is accompanied by a clear statement of the reasons behind it, and it does not facilitate no deal but simply makes clear how poor this deal is. While I support my noble friend’s amendment to the Motion, I shall actively and deliberately abstain on any vote on the Bill itself.

Covid-19: Devolved Administrations

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Friday 27th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot comment on the timing of specific or planned meetings. I have assured the House that a very long and continuing process of engagement takes place. I understand the very sensitive point that the noble Baroness makes and I have sympathy for it. I do not know the specific position that may or may not have been agreed between the parties involved, but I will get advice and let her know.

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, speaking as someone who lives in Northumberland not far from the Anglo-Scottish border and where people on both sides often identify as “Borderers”, I am in favour of maximum co-ordination between the devolved authorities. Has the Minister seen the report of the Institute for Government outlining some of the problems that have been experienced and suggesting ways forward for working better together in future?

[Lord True (Con)]

I have not seen the specific report, but I can only repeat that there has been extensive engagement with the DAs throughout the crisis, with regular ministerial engagement, including the calls that I have referred to, and devolved Administration attendance at COBRA meetings. As an example, I refer back to the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. Through discussions between the four nations’ chief medical officers, we have also aligned advice and guidance to the clinically extremely vulnerable throughout the pandemic, dependent on restrictions in each nation at the time, and for the Christmas period. I assure the noble Baroness and the House that the reality is a common desire to defeat a common enemy. I wish that we could accentuate that resolve and not pick at the occasional differences that arise. There is a lot of work to be done.

Ministerial Code

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I do not agree that confidence in the probity of public life, as the noble Lord puts it, is destroyed. The Government take all criticism and comment seriously and reflect on all comment, positive and negative. That is the wise thing to do, and I am sure the Government will continue to do it.

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, are there any previous cases of Prime Ministers overruling and ignoring the results of an inquiry under the Ministerial Code?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I would not characterise it in that particular way. The Prime Minister concluded in this case that the Ministerial Code was not breached. There was a prior case in 2012 when there was a finding that the code had been breached and the Minister also remained in office.

Home Secretary: Allegations of Bullying

Baroness Quin Excerpts

Monday 2nd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with much of what the noble and gallant Lord has said, in particular that all civil servants must feel free to give independent and open advice, and that Ministers should respect all those who give such advice.

[Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is it not the case that the Prime Minister has undermined this process by declaring his full confidence in the Home Secretary from the outset? Is it also not the case that the Prime Minister has form, as we saw with the Russia report, with delaying politically inconvenient reports? How can this process be independent if the Prime Minister is the final arbiter?

[Lord True (Con)]

The process is independent. The Prime Minister asked the Cabinet Office to establish the facts, in line with the Ministerial Code, and the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests, Sir Alex Allan, has a role through providing further independent advice to the Prime Minister. So far as the process is concerned, I regret that I must repeat that I cannot comment on that while it is continuing.