Equal Pay Legislation
Debate between Baroness Prosser and Baroness Scott of Bybrook
Baroness Prosser
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans, if any, they have to amend the equal pay legislation to include the right to know the pay of a potential comparator.
Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)
My Lords, I welcome the focus the noble Baroness is bringing to this topic as we celebrate 50 years since the introduction of the ground-breaking Equal Pay Act. Equality is good for our society; it unleashes ideas and opportunities that benefit us all. The Government are using this year to reflect on what remains to be done in this area. My noble friend the Minister for Women will carefully study the proposed right to know as part of this work.
Baroness Prosser (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. During yesterday’s Oral Question on the gender pay gap, a question was asked about a woman’s right to know. The Minister agreed that a woman entitled to equal pay should be entitled to know the pay of her prospective comparator. That was good to hear. The Minister said that work is being done in government and that we should have more information on this through the employment Bill. Who are the Government speaking to on this matter? Have they discussed this with the Trades Union Congress, which has huge experience of delicate negotiations? Are they speaking to the Fawcett Society and lawyers experienced in this field? Should the Minister wish to make those arrangements and speak to those people, I would be very happy to help her make the contacts.
Baroness Scott of Bybrook
I thank the noble Baroness. The Government remain unconvinced that the right to know will help. It is a very complex issue, but I understand why she is bringing this forward. As I said, my noble friend the Minister for Women will look carefully at this and study the proposal in the Bill of the noble Baroness this coming year. We will want to talk to all sorts of people. I am sure that will happen, but if a number of noble Lords would like to meet to discuss this further, I am more than happy to do so as we move forward this year.
Gender Pay Gap
Debate between Baroness Prosser and Baroness Scott of Bybrook
Baroness Scott of Bybrook
Yes, women need to have the right to know, but this is a very difficult thing for the Government to deal with because people also have the right not to have their pay in the public domain. The Government are looking at this and further proposals will come forward, including in the employment Bill, which will be introduced in due course.
Baroness Prosser (Lab)
My Lords, if we can stick for a moment with the gender pay gap, the Minister has said that she is concerned about the gap—concerned that things are not moving on—but does anybody in this House think that it is going to close by osmosis? We need action: we need the Government to determine what they are going to do. There are a whole range of things that they could do, and I will give just two examples. First, they should encourage employers to provide women-only training programmes so that women can be lifted up on pay scales et cetera. Secondly, they should work with employers to identify ways of producing much better-quality part-time employment. Are any of those ideas ones that the Minister would want to push forward and encourage the Government to support?
Baroness Scott of Bybrook
The noble Baroness is absolutely right: we need to move forward on this, but it is about cultural changes within large organisations. We saw today the issues in the finance sector in particular. However, the Government are already doing things: they publish advice to all employers, and they have webinars, face-to-face events, trade shows and so on. They are working closely with the Women’s Business Council on particular sectors that are slow in moving forward, including the retail and finance sectors. The Department of Health and Social Care is undertaking a complete review of the gender pay gap in medicine, led by Dame Jane Dacre. We are doing a lot to help but this a slow process. It is still moving in the right direction, and we want to ensure that it continues to do so.